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  1. #1
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    Default Speed test: should I strike as hard as I can?

    3. TESTING A SHUTTLE FOR SPEED
    3.1 To test a shuttle, use a full underhand stroke which makes contact with the shuttle over the back boundary line. The shuttle shall be hit at an upward angle and in a direction parallel to the side lines.
    3.2 A shuttle of correct speed will land not less than 530 mm and not more than 990 mm short of the other back boundary line
    I am not sure, what "full" means here... Should I try to send the birdy as far as I can? Or I am only allowed to use the whole strength, but it is not necessary? If my opponent says, the birdy is too slow, because he can't send it to the doubles line according to 3.2. But I guess, he doesn't apply himself to 100% intentionally, or even if he actually does... I am able to strike it so hard, and say - it's not my problem, the shuttle is correct. Who is right?

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    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    This is the dumbest test ever. Common sense will tell you that a big strong guy is going to hit the shuttlecock a lot further than a weak person. The other variable is racket type and string tension.
    These test just shows how dumb the people running BWF are.

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    hehe i guess we need to invent shuttle testing machine since human testing is not consistent....but again i dont think it will affect much since pro player know how to adjust after few stroke in the rally...

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    Quote Originally Posted by terencechan View Post
    This is the dumbest test ever. Common sense will tell you that a big strong guy is going to hit the shuttlecock a lot further than a weak person. The other variable is racket type and string tension.
    These test just shows how dumb the people running BWF are.
    Quote Originally Posted by xavYPC View Post
    hehe i guess we need to invent shuttle testing machine since human testing is not consistent....but again i dont think it will affect much since pro player know how to adjust after few stroke in the rally...
    It is obvious both of you do not understand the flight properties of feather shuttlecocks. The test used is perfect and contrary to what you think strength is not a requirement. A feather shuttlecock is a high-drag projectile and strength alone doesn't get you far.
    I am double or triple the age of some of the players I play with. Many young players who are more muscular than me cannot hit even within 2 feet of the minimum distance using the correct speed feather shuttlecock for the hall temperature and altitude.
    The test speed is calibrated for the advanced player to test accurately. It is not suited to the average player to conduct a proper test. This of course means many players end up playing technically correct speed shuttlecocks without being able to fully enjoy the game due to inability to hit from back line to the opposite court back line. This is especially true for the ladies. One solution is to use a faster speed shuttle, say in Malaysia from 76 to 77.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    The test speed is calibrated for the advanced player to test accurately. It is not suited to the average player to conduct a proper test.
    To my mind, this makes it a poor test. If an average player has no way of getting the right shuttle speed, then we don't have a "perfect" test.

    Yet it's the only test we have.

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    I can't get the hang of the shuttle speed test technique, care to do a coaching video Gollum? :P. Like most things in badminton it has nothing to do with strength, I have seen it performed by ladies perfectly easily, it is all about the technique. Yet I am perfectly capable of clearing full court (when in the right position) with no effort at all.

    If someone has the right technique the shuttle doesn't fly out the court, it just goes faster, so the test is correct, just not easily performed and I don't know anyone who practises it, as it isn't used in a game. If people who were strong hit the shuttle further do you not think this would apply to all shots in badminton? I don't see Lee Chong Wei hitting clears long all the time, rather the shots go faster.

    I test shuttles by warming up with one out of a tube. I know how far the shuttle should go when clearing under no pressure, if it flies out the back it is too fast, if it goes nowhere or a lot of force is needed to get it to go anywhere then it is too slow. Not entirely scientific but it works ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevex View Post
    I can't get the hang of the shuttle speed test technique, care to do a coaching video Gollum? :P.
    I probably will do at some point. Kudos to Paul, though, for making one already.


    If someone has the right technique the shuttle doesn't fly out the court, it just goes faster, so the test is correct, just not easily performed and I don't know anyone who practises it, as it isn't used in a game.
    Strictly speaking, if the shuttle is hit faster at the same trajectory then it will land at least slightly deeper. However, the high-drag of the shuttle tends to make the difference much less than one would expect: if you hit it at twice the speed, it doesn't travel twice as far, because the increased air resistance rapidly decelerates the shuttle again.

    Nevertheless, I would expect to see some difference in the result depending on who hit the test. I reckon that, compared to any amateur player, LCW would get a different result testing the same shuttle. Maybe not hugely different, but he would hit it longer. Sometimes that could make the difference between the shuttle being deemed correct, or being deemed too slow or fast.

    As you mention, players rarely practise this test because it's not used in the game. This makes it difficult to perform the test well.


    If people who were strong hit the shuttle further do you not think this would apply to all shots in badminton? I don't see Lee Chong Wei hitting clears long all the time, rather the shots go faster.
    A player of LCW's standard can easily hit clears well out the back of the court; he has plenty of spare power for clears. To make them land in, he just reduces the power (or, if playing defensively, increases the height).
    Last edited by Gollum; 10-19-2010 at 04:56 AM.

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    You'd better hitting it good instead of hitting it strongly. Technique is all. I dont see why argumentating. Most of the topics created by newbies can be answered as simple as that.

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    The argument is about the method currently used to test shuttle speed. It's obvious Taneepak is not aware of all the variables that influence the result of the test and distort results. Sometimes, people take things like shuttle cock speed for granted. We need a more accurate and scientific way to measure shuttlecock speed.

    The variables that can distort the test results :
    1. Racket Material - These test were available during the era of wooden rackets. We've transition to steel, aluminium, and now graphite.
    2. Racket Weight and shaft flexibility
    3. String type and tension
    4. Angle of shuttle flight.
    5. Strength of the person testing. Even for the advanced player, they're strength can vary quite a bit due to age and build.

    Badminton was invented during a time when we didn't have hand phones, or color TV.. It's about time they upgraded the rules and their testing methods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by terencechan View Post
    The argument is about the method currently used to test shuttle speed. It's obvious Taneepak is not aware of all the variables that influence the result of the test and distort results. Sometimes, people take things like shuttle cock speed for granted. We need a more accurate and scientific way to measure shuttlecock speed.

    The variables that can distort the test results :
    1. Racket Material - These test were available during the era of wooden rackets. We've transition to steel, aluminium, and now graphite.
    2. Racket Weight and shaft flexibility
    3. String type and tension
    4. Angle of shuttle flight.
    5. Strength of the person testing. Even for the advanced player, they're strength can vary quite a bit due to age and build.

    Badminton was invented during a time when we didn't have hand phones, or color TV.. It's about time they upgraded the rules and their testing methods.
    For your information I produce feather shuttlecocks. None of the above points are valid.
    Feather shuttles are designed with the following parameters and features: center of gravity, drag coefficient, total mass, geometry and material. chassis, skirt detail, spin detail, cork, must drift and then drop (gyroscopic behavior). They are also made in various speeds for different environments. altitude being the biggest factor and hall temperature a minor one.
    The test has a range of distance and shuttlecock speeds are based on testing by advanced players, which is used as a standard. Of course if you are not an advanced player then it would be better to use a higher speed shuttle, especially ladies.
    Pls note strength is not a factor in testing. It is your skill level.

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    Regular Member blindfury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    For your information I produce feather shuttlecocks. None of the above points are valid.
    Feather shuttles are designed with the following parameters and features: center of gravity, drag coefficient, total mass, geometry and material. chassis, skirt detail, spin detail, cork, must drift and then drop (gyroscopic behavior). They are also made in various speeds for different environments. altitude being the biggest factor and hall temperature a minor one.
    The test has a range of distance and shuttlecock speeds are based on testing by advanced players, which is used as a standard. Of course if you are not an advanced player then it would be better to use a higher speed shuttle, especially ladies.
    Pls note strength is not a factor in testing. It is your skill level.
    Oooooooooooooowned!

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    For your information I produce feather shuttlecocks. None of the above points are valid.
    Feather shuttles are designed with the following parameters and features: center of gravity, drag coefficient, total mass, geometry and material. chassis, skirt detail, spin detail, cork, must drift and then drop (gyroscopic behavior). They are also made in various speeds for different environments. altitude being the biggest factor and hall temperature a minor one.
    The test has a range of distance and shuttlecock speeds are based on testing by advanced players, which is used as a standard. Of course if you are not an advanced player then it would be better to use a higher speed shuttle, especially ladies.
    Pls note strength is not a factor in testing. It is your skill level.
    Yes, shuttlecocks are made to fly at various speeds to suit different environments. Tournaments played on higher altitude use slower shuttle cocks and opposite is done on lower altitudes. I agree with that.

    However, I'm afraid you are wrong on the second point. It's not better for ladies to use higher speed shuttle cocks. They don't use a faster shuttlecock for ladies in international tournaments. The reason shuttlecocks are manufactured at different speeds is to ensure the shuttlecock flies at the SAME 'acceptable' speed whether the game is being played on a high or low attitude.

    You are also wrong on the 3rd point. Strength does play a factor. If 2 person are of the same skill level, the other factor that can affect their power is strength. That's why not every player playing in international tournaments can smash at 300 km/h.
    Another example, say if Lin Dan was 50, he'll still be considered an advanced player and beat the crap out of most players. Surely he won't forget his technique, but he'll lose strength and flexibility.. thus will lose considerable power.
    The defect is not in the shuttlecocks, but in the test. There are a bunch of other factors that will throw the test results off. I need not repeat them again.

  14. #14
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terencechan View Post
    Yes, shuttlecocks are made to fly at various speeds to suit different environments. Tournaments played on higher altitude use slower shuttle cocks and opposite is done on lower altitudes. I agree with that.

    However, I'm afraid you are wrong on the second point. It's not better for ladies to use higher speed shuttle cocks. They don't use a faster shuttlecock for ladies in international tournaments. The reason shuttlecocks are manufactured at different speeds is to ensure the shuttlecock flies at the SAME 'acceptable' speed whether the game is being played on a high or low attitude.

    You are also wrong on the 3rd point. Strength does play a factor. If 2 person are of the same skill level, the other factor that can affect their power is strength. That's why not every player playing in international tournaments can smash at 300 km/h.
    Another example, say if Lin Dan was 50, he'll still be considered an advanced player and beat the crap out of most players. Surely he won't forget his technique, but he'll lose strength and flexibility.. thus will lose considerable power.
    The defect is not in the shuttlecocks, but in the test. There are a bunch of other factors that will throw the test results off. I need not repeat them again.
    You seem so sure power makes a huge difference performing a standing "underhand stroke" ...

    If you ask 10 persons of different shape, size & gender at your average GP, testing the same tube, you are not going to see huge differences ...

    But to take away the human variable I guess you could use one of those shuttle feeder machines like the Knight Trainer
    Last edited by demolidor; 10-21-2010 at 07:29 PM.

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    After reading thru the thread, imo the answer is it depends...

    For a beginner to perform the shuttle test, I'm pretty sure he won't be able reach the baseline with a proper shuttle even if he gave 120% power in his shot!

    For an intermediate, he will likely use 80-90% power to hit a proper shuttle to the baseline.

    For a pro, I'm sure he'll only need 60-70% power.

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    I think most people interpret strength as being big or muscular or both.
    When in badminton you need to be lightfooted and have a supple wrist.
    Yeah sure a body builder could play well but would be relying on pure strength because he could.

    Oh and Taneepak do we get discounts on your shuttles

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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    You seem so sure power makes a huge difference performing a standing "underhand stroke" ...

    If you ask 10 persons of different shape, size & gender at your average GP, testing the same tube, you are not going to see huge differences ...

    But to take away the human variable I guess you could use one of those shuttle feeder machines like the Knight Trainer
    You know.. I could be wrong about the difference in power on the underhand stroke cause' I've never managed to get a few 'advanced' players to do the test. However, I do believe that if you ask Lin Dan to hit an "underhand stroke" as hard as he can when he was 19, compare that with a stroke that he would hit when he's 50.. I think there should quite a bit of difference. Power generated by a flexible and stronger person .. against an old stiff fellow.. um.. who knows?

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