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  1. #205
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjamin59 View Post
    just take a look at sepak takraw mas just kept on going downhill or stuck at a point while thailand and vietnam have taken over - heck even china is climbing up. is badminton in mas following the same route? I think bam should look at the squash team and now our football team and see why they shine.
    I think for football, it is still to early to say.

    But talking about badminton, there is no doubt that it is going all the way downhill. We can only hope that the revival won't take 10 to 20 years or even more! I recently just learnt that Thailand used to be quite a strong badminton nation in the ... 70s? (correct if I am wrong) but it took them almost 30 years before they started making a huge impact.

  2. #206
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Why players shine?

    Quote Originally Posted by benjamin59 View Post
    just take a look at sepak takraw mas just kept on going downhill or stuck at a point while thailand and vietnam have taken over - heck even china is climbing up. is badminton in mas following the same route? I think bam should look at the squash team and now our football team and see why they shine.
    .
    Why players shine?

    IMHO, players shine because their coaches/associations make sure that they enjoy their sports (in training and at tournaments).

    As soon as players feel that their effort (to perform well) is not appreciated by their fans/coaches/associations, they will find themselves having extra obstacles standing in their way to shine.
    .

  3. #207
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Just to remind you of an example :

    Wang Yi Han performed badly and was left out of the Uber Cup.

    LYB threatened to drop her if she did not WIN the 2010 Danish and French Open.

    Can you say Wang Yi Han enjoyed the pressure?

    I think it all boils down to culture and the mental strength aspect.I dont blame Malaysians,

    we are probably like many Westerners unable to cope with the cruelty and harsh treatment

    that counterparts in East Asia have to endure.Maybe the Performance Evaluator did not make enough

    adjustments to suit the local culture and mentality and just went by the book.Here we forgive and forget easily

    and that may be the root of peace and harmony(although it has its drawbacks).Nevertheless the golden rule

    is less emphasis on rules akin to "one size fits all" and to make adjustments for locality, unless it is a matter of

    life and death.
    Last edited by Bbn; 01-04-2011 at 09:58 PM.

  4. #208
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow The selection of players to form a team is easier to make

    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Just to remind you of an example :

    Wang Yi Han performed badly and was left out of the Uber Cup.

    LYB threatened to drop her if she did not WIN the 2010 Danish and French Open.

    Can you say Wang Yi Han enjoyed the pressure?
    .
    The selection of players to form a team is easier to make. I too would not select Wang Yihan if there are other teammates in better form than her.

    However, the selection of coaches is harder to make. For example, I wouldn't drop LYB after he failed to win the Uber Cup.
    .

  5. #209
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    The selection of players to form a team is easier to make. I too would not select Wang Yihan if there are other teammates in better form than her.

    However, the selection of coaches is harder to make. For example, I wouldn't drop LYB after he failed to win the Uber Cup.
    .
    Wang was left out of the Uber Cup. After that she was given the ultimatum to win the two SS even though she was still no.1

    or be dropped from the China team, not just the Uber Cup. And she delivered.

    The key element is the stress and pressure she was able to endure as an individual.

  6. #210
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    that kind of stress and pressure? lol

    try replace them with swallowing stones for every one of them everyday.

    in a year if the in's and out's leaves a balance of more stones in your tummy

    than you can take, that's called a breaking point

    this is exactly what happened to dear misbun

    stress and pressure stays with us no matter what

    and the best we can do is to reduce them before the new ones come

    wang's example is only one stone in this case whereas misbun's is a long time.

    i am not trying to say bam is in the wrong nor can i say for misbun.

    simply because we do not know the reasons and causes in the first place

    why i am fruatrated and feeling sorry is that,

    knowing misbun personally i just can't accept this is happening

    again simply because i want badminton in malaysia to florish like yesteryears

    many of us may have the same vision accept a few trolls

    but we may have different thinking towards it

  7. #211
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    That is the kind of pressure many people are subject to in the private sector.

    Especially in very competitive societies.Many people drop out to become their own bosses, the underlying principle

    is that the world does not owe you a living, comply or ship out. Even in local politics nowadays people are not retained when they leave.

    Like I said it may not work in the Malaysian context .

    In many societies they go by the book, there is no compromise if one is caught running the red-light,

    inconsiderate parking,jay-walking, littering, etc. etc.

    Even the government is trying to implement KPIs.

    Sometimes people who make the rules have to stand by them in order to set a good example. It is up to you to decide

    whether or not it is right or even used in the right context.

  8. #212
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    "again simply because i want badminton in malaysia to florish like yesteryears"

    Badminton is not doing too well now with LCW and KKK/TBH.

    It is just that (as many people notice) too many resources and attention has been focussed on the stars

    leaving a team with no depth for team events.This is specially relevant now in our economic conditions with cut-backs.

    The difference with the past in terms of success is that we have lost the edge in team events,

    which is only a small part of the honours.There is ample progress in the ladies and mixed doubles and the mixed team event.

    I think many people tend to judge success too much on the Thomas Cup,especially ex-Thomas Cuppers.

    Maybe expectations need to be reviewed.

    In this era Msia is king of the Super Series, not team events, even China cannot dominate both.
    Last edited by Bbn; 01-05-2011 at 12:16 AM.

  9. #213
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    To be at the very top in badminton it has to be survival of the fittest. Malaysia's 'Ti Da Pak' attitude has been a Malaysian culture since early years and is the root cause of falling at the last hurdle.
    It is about time that coaches are being evaluated for their performance every 3 months against an set objective or objectives. For example if Misbun is given charge of say 5 elite singles players then he must perform and show some improved performance of all his charges, not just one. He cannot live under the shield of just one good performing player. If he is instrumental in producing excellence from LCW he should be able to do the same for the others. Coaches must produce results and to do this they must be evaluated periodically on their performance. If they cannot or will not accept this then they obviously cannot take pressure. Then it is best to let them go.

  10. #214
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    winning team event mainly shows that your country is strong overall

    would not this be the best way to measure your success in badminton?

    hey, we have very good singles and doubles players (notice the 's')

    or you prefer,

    we only have lcw, kkk and tbh

  11. #215
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Wang was left out of the Uber Cup. After that she was given the ultimatum to win the two SS even though she was still no.1

    or be dropped from the China team, not just the Uber Cup. And she delivered.

    The key element is the stress and pressure she was able to endure as an individual.
    Wang Yihan was there as the first singles, and lost to Bae Seung Hee in China's eventual 1-3 shock defeat to South Korea. She was left out of the Asian Games squad.

  12. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by undeadshot View Post
    Wang Yihan was there as the first singles, and lost to Bae Seung Hee in China's eventual 1-3 shock defeat to South Korea. She was left out of the Asian Games squad.
    This is the Chinese way, perform or get kicked out. Alas, not so in Malaysia.

  13. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    This is the Chinese way, perform or get kicked out. Alas, not so in Malaysia.
    If BAM get rid of those non-performers (Habis Hashim, TCS, Darren Liew, etc...), I think we need to field YOU in Thomas Cup against China MS2 (Chen Jin or Chen Long)... BOLEH?

  14. #218
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    To be at the very top in badminton it has to be survival of the fittest. Malaysia's 'Ti Da Pak' attitude has been a Malaysian culture since early years and is the root cause of falling at the last hurdle.
    It is about time that coaches are being evaluated for their performance every 3 months against an set objective or objectives. For example if Misbun is given charge of say 5 elite singles players then he must perform and show some improved performance of all his charges, not just one. He cannot live under the shield of just one good performing player. If he is instrumental in producing excellence from LCW he should be able to do the same for the others. Coaches must produce results and to do this they must be evaluated periodically on their performance. If they cannot or will not accept this then they obviously cannot take pressure. Then it is best to let them go.
    just 3 months for evaluations?

    even if i give you some extra months,

    a little arithmatics will tell you in no time malaysia will runs out of coaches and players

    your plan only works for a factory such as automobile

    and there are differences between humans and automobile

  15. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    If BAM get rid of those non-performers (Habis Hashim, TCS, Darren Liew, etc...), I think we need to field YOU in Thomas Cup against China MS2 (Chen Jin or Chen Long)... BOLEH?
    That shows up another Malaysian weakness-lack of depth and breadth. With so few to choose from no wonder they can 'Tareh Harga'. It also has too much inbreeding, which will lead to its extinction.

  16. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    just 3 months for evaluations?

    even if i give you some extra months,

    a little arithmatics will tell you in no time malaysia will runs out of coaches and players

    your plan only works for a factory such as automobile

    and there are differences between humans and automobile
    Teams that are not performing as well as expected should be subject to more frequent evaluation for speedier corrective action.
    The criteria should be improvement and not necessarily winning, because any improvement over time will culminate in significant improvement. The failure in the form of declining performance, not mentioning winning any titles, of the backup elite players is a damming indictment against the coaches.

  17. #221
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    The most insecure job and also the shortest career life in the sporting world is the English Premier League. No wonder it also breeds the best in soccer. Just imagine Misbun being in charge of Liverpool! He won't survive 3 months.
    Pressure, what pressure, because pressure is the adrenaline that drives success. How can one be a good coach without pressure?

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