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  1. #222
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    To be honest the guy in question is not very lucky and has many family tragedies to bear.

    Maybe what is needed is a less stressful job.

  2. #223
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    The most insecure job and also the shortest career life in the sporting world is the English Premier League. No wonder it also breeds the best in soccer. Just imagine Misbun being in charge of Liverpool! He won't survive 3 months.
    Pressure, what pressure, because pressure is the adrenaline that drives success. How can one be a good coach without pressure?
    misbun can survive 3 months is a blessing and during this time probably he can train them agility

    the other soccer coach probably won't last 1 month in bam,

    he maybe able to take order but not his hands with racket

    and all bam players can run

    wrong comparison, taneepak

    but yes pressure is the adrenaline that drives pressure,

    i would agree with you on that

    and btw all coaches have pressure the moment they start coaching

    those that can overcome more than misbun, that is, if he tells you everything,

    is called a pressure cooker

    i doubt you can find one for me

  3. #224
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Teams that are not performing as well as expected should be subject to more frequent evaluation for speedier corrective action.
    The criteria should be improvement and not necessarily winning, because any improvement over time will culminate in significant improvement. The failure in the form of declining performance, not mentioning winning any titles, of the backup elite players is a damming indictment against the coaches.
    agree with you on the above and this evaluation stuff is been carried out in bam.

    however, is the indictment against the coaches fair

    when program ain't from the coach totally?D

    i think rashid pointed this out today

  4. #225
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    misbun can survive 3 months is a blessing and during this time probably he can train them agility

    the other soccer coach probably won't last 1 month in bam,

    he maybe able to take order but not his hands with racket

    and all bam players can run

    wrong comparison, taneepak

    but yes pressure is the adrenaline that drives success

    i would agree with you on that

    and btw all coaches have pressure the moment they start coaching

    those that can overcome more than misbun, that is, if he tells you everything,

    is called a pressure cooker

    i doubt you can find one for me
    correction - success not pressure

  5. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    just 3 months for evaluations?

    even if i give you some extra months,

    a little arithmatics will tell you in no time malaysia will runs out of coaches and players

    your plan only works for a factory such as automobile

    and there are differences between humans and automobile
    Hey, if coaches are like a revolving door like Epak said, maybe your turn will come to coach the MAS team and you can rename yourself as Mr 10% (you get 10-% commision if your player wins SS)...Epak did not say CHN is blessed with abundance of talents awaiting, so one WYH so what, even WX despite WR1 could be out very soon if she keeps losing to her teammates
    Even our neighbour INA, with 7 times MAS population and a fanatic baddy nation still depends on the 3 'seasoned' campaigners and with their 'prospect' Rumba is like 22 already.
    So how many talents CHN has? too many esp in the women side.

  6. #227
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Hey, if coaches are like a revolving door like Epak said, maybe your turn will come to coach the MAS team and you can rename yourself as Mr 10% (you get 10-% commision if your player wins SS)...Epak did not say CHN is blessed with abundance of talents awaiting, so one WYH so what, even WX despite WR1 could be out very soon if she keeps losing to her teammates
    Even our neighbour INA, with 7 times MAS population and a fanatic baddy nation still depends on the 3 'seasoned' campaigners and with their 'prospect' Rumba is like 22 already.
    So how many talents CHN has? too many esp in the women side.
    otb, with that kind of system probably i will have my turn

    or in fact practically even every kindergaden coach.lol

    hence don't expect any results when players come and go at that pace

    so will be the level of everything hahaha

    probably the commission will be reversed more for the coaches

    as all expenses shoot up and players will agree

    and don't mind as they know they hardly won anything hahaha

    china no doubt has a big base and more talents

    and the difference is they develop talents

    it starts in the grass root program

    and in malaysia it looks similar but there is a huge difference

    recently, over here i understand there are going to be some changes

    meanwhile we are still lucky to have coaches in the national, state

    and even private coaches who still loves baddy and are stuck with it

    a day will come when they also have their breaking point

    sorry if i continue i will bore you to death …

  7. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Hey, if coaches are like a revolving door like Epak said, maybe your turn will come to coach the MAS team and you can rename yourself as Mr 10% (you get 10-% commision if your player wins SS)...Epak did not say CHN is blessed with abundance of talents awaiting, so one WYH so what, even WX despite WR1 could be out very soon if she keeps losing to her teammates
    Even our neighbour INA, with 7 times MAS population and a fanatic baddy nation still depends on the 3 'seasoned' campaigners and with their 'prospect' Rumba is like 22 already.
    So how many talents CHN has? too many esp in the women side.
    Yes, China has more depth and breadth but this state of affairs is neither a gift from heaven nor by having a huge population (India is almost as big). It is in the people's dna which the Koreans also share. Many years ago Koreans did not play badminton at all! China always looks at the big picture and will never allow a Cinderella and his 'special' coach to dictate terms to their badminton federation. This is because any Cinderella comes and goes not unlike a yo yo. The fans and the population also support this big picture approach and this is what makes China and Korea superlative performers in any undertaking they commit.
    themselves to. A case in point was the 1989 Tian Ah Man incident which the world confidently predicted would be the collapse of China. No such thing happen and instead China kept on at a pace that still astounds the world. This is depth and breath that looks at the big picture.
    Look, in my opinion MS is a maverick and should never have been allowed a leadership role in coaching because he cannot look at the big picture. Did he even consider for a second what effect his sudden resignation would have on LCW and others? Also with LCW out of the BAM what will happen to the sponsors? Yonex is not as big a sponsor as the Malaysian government, Proton or Maybank and these three would like to sponsor a national body rather than a Cinderella and his maverick coach, simply because the former is a continuing organization whereas the latter a 'time traveler' who comes on the scene for a short time and then disappear. No wonder Malaysia breeds yo yo players and sporting prowess.

  8. #229
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    What makes a good coach and what is not so good?

    I spent some time teaching at tertiary level at various levels and have observed the following :

    When teaching advanced students well taught by others before me my job is very easy as the brighter students already have

    good fundamentals and need guidance and motivation to perform better as they can be self learning and the teacher just needs to coach ie. facilitate and point in the right direction. Teaching is hardly the priority as there are books, etc.

    But when teaching at intermediate or basic level the job becomes much harder as the students are more dependent. Then the teacher is unable to coach, he/she needs to TEACH, be very patient and diligent and strict so that the learner can grasp fundamentals step by step and build up skills.

    A highly qualified teacher good at teaching advanced students may not necessarily be good at teaching those at lower levels.

    The most appropriate learning levels and methods is summarised in "Bloom's Taxonomy" which you can google.

    Try motivating those intermediate learners and they will probably laugh at you and decide you have no substance.

    In education,teachers have to be trained and qualified in things like the psychology of learning to be able to reach students of

    various learning levels.

    Many of you have been thru College and surely understand what I am saying about competent teachers and also smart and

    dependent,slower students.How good is a teacher teaching from experience and what others have taught him? if you ask any

    searching question he will just tell you to do as you are told.

    I am not saying this applies to MS but it is sth to think about.

    If you were a parent would you prefer your children to be taught by qualified and well trained teachers or just send them to the cheapest schools?

  9. #230
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Yes, China has more depth and breadth but this state of affairs is neither a gift from heaven nor by having a huge population (India is almost as big). It is in the people's dna which the Koreans also share. Many years ago Koreans did not play badminton at all! China always looks at the big picture and will never allow a Cinderella and his 'special' coach to dictate terms to their badminton federation. This is because any Cinderella comes and goes not unlike a yo yo. The fans and the population also support this big picture approach and this is what makes China and Korea superlative performers in any undertaking they commit.
    themselves to. A case in point was the 1989 Tian Ah Man incident which the world confidently predicted would be the collapse of China. No such thing happen and instead China kept on at a pace that still astounds the world. This is depth and breath that looks at the big picture.
    Look, in my opinion MS is a maverick and should never have been allowed a leadership role in coaching because he cannot look at the big picture. Did he even consider for a second what effect his sudden resignation would have on LCW and others? Also with LCW out of the BAM what will happen to the sponsors? Yonex is not as big a sponsor as the Malaysian government, Proton or Maybank and these three would like to sponsor a national body rather than a Cinderella and his maverick coach, simply because the former is a continuing organization whereas the latter a 'time traveler' who comes on the scene for a short time and then disappear. No wonder Malaysia breeds yo yo players and sporting prowess.

    so according to you, ms can't look at big picture,

    just because he didn't care about whether bam continue with the sponsor on their side or not.

    what else you think he is not right other than spending 7 years building a cinderella?

  10. #231
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    It is now less than 4 months since MS took charge of the top elite players. High hopes were expected of him to improve these players. But the results have proved to be disastrous and the BAM wants to know why and what went wrong. Even MS's best player LCW in December 2010 took a blast at the elite players singling out Daren Liew for answering his question of "do you know why you lost' with "I don't know". This is exactly what BAM wants MS to explain, so why is this unacceptable?
    Now please tell me what has MS done for the elite players placed under his charge since day one?
    It is these elite players who are going to form the backbone of Malaysia's future singles players to take over from LCW. But MS cannot 'tahan' the pressure and prefers to coach only one solitary player (LCW) not mentioning his own son! Now this is really made in heaven.

  11. #232
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    I remember one episode from the 90s when Frost was chief coach.Frost and Misbun were never the best of friends even as players in the 80s. It was the ultimate insult when Frost was made coach in Msia after Misbun decided to work in Nusa Mashuri.
    There were snipes like why foreigners are needed when locals are just as good (just like the thinking today) but what was really intended was transfer of know-how, hire foreigners on short term so that locals can tap their brains, exactly how Tan Kim Her benefited from Park Joo Bong or Lee Chong Wei from Li Mao or Ina from Tang Xian Hu and Li Mao.
    Certain quarters criticised Frost for being unable to produce outstanding champions to which Frost remarked " the mark of a good coach is not whether he can create a great champion because great players hardly need great coaches,rather a good coach is someone who can in a short time turn ordinary players like Yong Hock Kin into world beaters."
    You may not agree with Frost, but i have heard the same in academic circles. It doesn't need much effort to teach a genius,
    but a great educator or teacher is someone who can reach even the most mediocre students and make them appreciate and understand the subject they are learning.Many teachers and academics are proud of the outstanding students they have taught but I think their influence may not be really that great, more remarkable are teachers who are able to turn struggling or
    no-hopers into good achievers.Teachers proud of outstanding students they have influenced I think can make good politicians.

  12. #233
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    It is now less than 4 months since MS took charge of the top elite players. High hopes were expected of him to improve these players. But the results have proved to be disastrous and the BAM wants to know why and what went wrong. Even MS's best player LCW in December 2010 took a blast at the elite players singling out Daren Liew for answering his question of "do you know why you lost' with "I don't know". This is exactly what BAM wants MS to explain, so why is this unacceptable?
    Now please tell me what has MS done for the elite players placed under his charge since day one?
    It is these elite players who are going to form the backbone of Malaysia's future singles players to take over from LCW. But MS cannot 'tahan' the pressure and prefers to coach only one solitary player (LCW) not mentioning his own son! Now this is really made in heaven.
    misbun knew these players were not ready in 2008

    it took him almost a year to up their fitness

    then came hendrawan and he also can't move them

    so 4 months back to misbun can change anything lol

    you are short of inside info, buddy

    i bet some of you bc members are laughing

  13. #234
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    .
    Certain quarters criticised Frost for being unable to produce outstanding champions to which Frost remarked " the mark of a good coach is not whether he can create a great champion because great players hardly need great coaches,rather a good coach is someone who can in a short time turn ordinary players like Yong Hock Kin into world beaters."
    frost really say that

    he's good

  14. #235
    Regular Member eRa@에라's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    It is now less than 4 months since MS took charge of the top elite players. High hopes were expected of him to improve these players. But the results have proved to be disastrous and the BAM wants to know why and what went wrong. Even MS's best player LCW in December 2010 took a blast at the elite players singling out Daren Liew for answering his question of "do you know why you lost' with "I don't know". This is exactly what BAM wants MS to explain, so why is this unacceptable?
    Now please tell me what has MS done for the elite players placed under his charge since day one?
    It is these elite players who are going to form the backbone of Malaysia's future singles players to take over from LCW. But MS cannot 'tahan' the pressure and prefers to coach only one solitary player (LCW) not mentioning his own son! Now this is really made in heaven.
    Pardon me Taneepak but I can't stand unresponsive to the above statement of yours... don't just simply say things that you don't know of... do you really know him to claim he is such an individual who care less of his charges? If not, then please refrain from saying he's this and he's that as if you know him personally as an irresponsible man...

    "High hopes were expected of him to improve these players. But the results have proved to be disastrous"

    Disastrous?? and whose fault is it? MS? mainly MS? *faint* Boss, when you fail in your exam, task, assignment, life etc, are you gonna point fingers to people around you saying "I don't know what went wrong/ how come I fail" instead of looking to yourself for the answer?

    "Now please tell me what has MS done for the elite players placed under his charge since day one?"

    I think everyone knows the answer to this... so my question, are the elite players determine enough to win honor despite being under the shadow of LCW? Or they are comfortable being moderate as long as LCW is still playing for the country (no pressure, monthly pay guaranteed)? Or they can just let their coach answers to their sort of "disastrous" performances (despite being given chances after chances to improve)... since it's THEIR PERFORMANCES and the coach is their ANSWERING MACHINE.... since they DON'T KNOW much about the sport but still choose it as a career...*faint*... horror... just horror...

    Liew daren and all the elite players are not some kindergarden kid that need to be told EVERY TIME what they did wrong or what are their errors that made them lose... you wanna be a step ahead in anything you do, then you SHOULD KNOW what to do and if you fail again and again, you SHOULD BLOODY KNOW what when wrong... it's just common sense... of course not to the ignorance cos they can't see the difference... cos, they are... ignorant...

    IMHO, when a person decided to be in sport, they should expect to also be independent... Learn to make good decision to win, because you're the one playing the game... your coach is only guiding you but YOU (THE PLAYER) are the one kicking the ball, smashing the shuttle etc... don't tell me you expect the coach to hold his players hand while guiding him in making the winning shots, during tournament some more... tsk tsk tsk... horror... just horror...

  15. #236
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow If ever coaches are to be sacked......

    Quote Originally Posted by eRa@에라 View Post
    IMHO, when a person decided to be in sport, they should expect to also be independent... Learn to make good decision to win, because you're the one playing the game... your coach is only guiding you but YOU (THE PLAYER) are the one kicking the ball, smashing the shuttle etc... don't tell me you expect the coach to hold his players hand while guiding him in making the winning shots, during tournament some more... tsk tsk tsk... horror... just horror...
    .
    Agree.

    If ever coaches are to be sacked, it should be suggested from their players/charges; not from the non-players (the BAM committee members) nor from our BC members.
    .

  16. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Agree.

    If ever coaches are to be sacked, it should be suggested from their players/charges; not from the non-players (the BAM committee members) nor from our BC members.
    .
    You mean Accounts clerk can suggest to Director to sack his/her Accounts Manager?

  17. #238
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dato A View Post
    You mean Accounts clerk can suggest to Director to sack his/her Accounts Manager?
    why not?

    when the manager is stealing ...

    and stealing would be stealing from the director ... is it not?

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