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  1. #239
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Only the Director can issue the sacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Dato A View Post
    You mean Accounts clerk can suggest to Director to sack his/her Accounts Manager?
    .
    Yes, an Accounts clerk can suggest to the Director to sack his/her Accounts Manager when he/she finds the Accounts Manager is leading the Accounts Department into trouble.

    But, it is up to the Director (the one who can issue the sacking).
    .

  2. #240
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Agree.

    If ever coaches are to be sacked, it should be suggested from their players/charges; not from the non-players (the BAM committee members) nor from our BC members.
    .
    It is better not to forget the role of a coaching and training committee who should be a panel of former players.

    Their role is to provide a helicopter view and decide on new trends in the sport as to things like what others are doing,

    new technology ,training methods etc. A coach working day to day on training may not be able to have a helicopter view of

    things and the committee may be useful in advising on changes necessary.

    Just as in other places, recommendations of the committee should be taken seriously, unless it is backed by valid reasons

    and justifications. Not accomodating advice from the committee of past players without a good reason may be viewed as

    resistance to change,and will be incriminating when over time desired results are not achieved.

    I am sure that people in the committee have been carefully selected and know their stuff.

  3. #241
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    "High hopes were expected of him to improve these players. But the results have proved to be disastrous"

    Disastrous?? and whose fault is it? MS? mainly MS? *faint* Boss, when you fail in your exam, task, assignment, life etc, are you gonna point fingers to people around you saying "I don't know what went wrong/ how come I fail" instead of looking to yourself for the answer?

    "Now please tell me what has MS done for the elite players placed under his charge since day one?"

    I think everyone knows the answer to this... so my question, are the elite players determine enough to win honor despite being under the shadow of LCW? Or they are comfortable being moderate as long as LCW is still playing for the country (no pressure, monthly pay guaranteed)? Or they can just let their coach answers to their sort of "disastrous" performances (despite being given chances after chances to improve)... since it's THEIR PERFORMANCES and the coach is their ANSWERING MACHINE.... since they DON'T KNOW much about the sport but still choose it as a career...*faint*... horror... just horror...

    Liew daren and all the elite players are not some kindergarden kid that need to be told EVERY TIME what they did wrong or what are their errors that made them lose... you wanna be a step ahead in anything you do, then you SHOULD KNOW what to do and if you fail again and again, you SHOULD BLOODY KNOW what when wrong... it's just common sense... of course not to the ignorance cos they can't see the difference... cos, they are... ignorant...

    IMHO, when a person decided to be in sport, they should expect to also be independent... Learn to make good decision to win, because you're the one playing the game... your coach is only guiding you but YOU (THE PLAYER) are the one kicking the ball, smashing the shuttle etc... don't tell me you expect the coach to hold his players hand while guiding him in making the winning shots, during tournament some more... tsk tsk tsk... horror... just horror...

    That may not be true universally.

    China players are selected based on certain physical attributes to play badminton, those deemed unsuitable are diverted to say play tennis. They are then TAUGHT to play badminton thru the years.
    This accounts for the high incidence of Cyborg players, one of whom has become world champion, another who is fast maturing and rising rapidly in the ranks by leaps and bounds which we can observe in the GP Finals this Sunday.
    The China method is an alternative and may be necessary or prove to be more effective,but it will probably require a massive revamp of systems and thinking.I think this "factory" method produces a lot of "quality" players but they take a long time to mature and come to grips on how to put a personal touch, just as is happening to LD now.It may be worth thinking about.
    I dunno about others but when I think back of my early 20s, i would have been much better off if I had a mentor or someone to monitor me as then I didn't understand much about the world.
    Last edited by Bbn; 01-06-2011 at 07:10 PM.

  4. #242
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Courtesy from the Star

    Misbun: I need a break

    MISBUN Sidek has stated that his patriotism should not be questioned just because he resigned as the national singles coach last week .

    Misbun said that badminton has been his life and he wants to take a temporary break and will return when he overcomes his anger and disappointment.

    " I' m upset and disappointed and I want to take a break. It ' s not a question of patriotism as I have been involved in badminton all my life , " said Misbun.


    " What happened internally ( in the coaching and training committee meeting ) should remain internal and I' m not going to reveal anything .


    " I had dinner with Sports Minister ( Datuk Seri Ahmad Shabery Cheek ) yesterday ( Wednesday) but it was just an informal meeting and nothing more than that . "

    Misbun also made it clear his decision was not influenced by anyone and there is also no attempt to lure Lee Chong Wei or any other shuttler out of the national team.

    An emotional Misbun , who turns 51 next month , declined from making further comments as he felt the time was not right.

    Meanwhile, Ahmad Shabery said he will be having a joint meeting with Misbun and BA of Malaysia ( BAM ) president Datuk Seri Nadzmi Salleh to settle the issue after his two - day visit to Sarawak.

    Ahmad Shabery was optimistic the differences between Misbun and BAM would be sorted out before the Malaysia Open on Jan 18 - 24 .

    " With the Malaysia Open beginning soon, I am sure that the situation will improve .

    Time will assist us to clear the air . I feel that it is not good that the problem between Misbun and BAM went public and that Misbun had to tender his resignation, " said Ahmad Shabery.

    " There should have been dialogues and discussions rather than going public. There will only be the three of us in the meeting. "

    Speculation is rife that one of the reasons behind Misbun ' s resignation was the decision by BAM to let Hendrawan coach Misbun' s son Misbun Ramdan .
    Last edited by pBmMalaysia; 01-06-2011 at 07:24 PM.

  5. #243
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Players, themselves, can feel if they have improved or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    It is better not to forget the role of a coaching and training committee who should be a panel of former players.

    Their role is to provide a helicopter view and decide on new trends in the sport as to things like what others are doing, new technology ,training methods etc. A coach working day to day on training may not be able to have a helicopter view of things and the committee may be useful in advising on changes necessary.

    Just as in other places, recommendations of the committee should be taken seriously, unless it is backed by valid reasons and justifications. Not accomodating advice from the committee of past players without a good reason may be viewed as resistance to change,and will be incriminating when over time desired results are not achieved.

    I am sure that people in the committee have been carefully selected and know their stuff.
    .
    Players, themselves, can feel if they have improved or not (as taught by their coaches). Others/outsiders can only look at results/scores of matches achieved by them players.

    Players will know if they have received invaluable advises from their coaches or not; others can only judge via the players' results/scores.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-06-2011 at 07:37 PM.

  6. #244
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Courtesy from the Star

    Friday January 7, 2011

    Misbun ready to talk

    By RAJES PAUL

    PETALING JAYA : There may be a happy end to the Misbun Sidek controversy after all.
    After keeping mum for some time , Misbun has finally aired his grievances that led to his decision to quit as a national badminton coach to Youth and Sports Minister Datuk Seri Ahmad Shabery Cheek in a heart- to- heart talk on Wednesday.

    And Shabery will now initiate a tripartite meeting among Misbun, the Badminton Association of Malaysia ( BAM) and himself to resolve matters .

    Misbun tendered a resignation letter to the BAM on Dec 31 . And his decision to leave the national team brought out strong reactions from world No . 1 Lee Chong Wei, who said that he would follow suit if the BAM were unable to persuade his coach to change his mind .

    The “healing session ” between Misbun and BAM is expected to take place in a day or two after Shabery returns from an official visit to Kuching .

    Shabery is playing the role as the mediator after Misbun refused to meet BAM president Datuk Seri Nadzmi Mohd Salleh to reveal why he decided to quit .

    The minister had met Nadzmi and other BAM officials at lunch on Wednesday. And together with the National Sports Council’s ( NSC ) director of sports management , Abdul Jalil Abdullah, they met Misbun over dinner .

    Shabery said that Misbun had some problems with the BAM that could be ironed out .

    “ I gathered from the talk with Misbun that there were some grievances and differences in opinion between him and the BAM , ” he said .

    “ He ( Misbun ) raised some valid points that needed to be ironed out . It has nothing to do with some of the speculations that have emerged . It is about how one handles the training and its approaches .

    “ I will , however , not divulge the details of what was spoken in privacy. The best way is for me to bring both parties for a discussion. Let us all be open about it . ”
    Shabery said that both Misbun and Nadzmi had agreed to have the meeting.

    “ I have spoken to Nadzmi and he is open to have a discussion with Misbun and vice versa. Both sides are sincere and I think, this is a positive sign ,” he said .

  7. #245
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    It is better not to forget the role of a coaching and training committee who should be a panel of former players.

    Their role is to provide a helicopter view and decide on new trends in the sport as to things like what others are doing, new technology ,training methods etc. A coach working day to day on training may not be able to have a helicopter view of things and the committee may be useful in advising on changes necessary.

    Just as in other places, recommendations of the committee should be taken seriously, unless it is backed by valid reasonsand justifications. Not accomodating advice from the committee of past players without a good reason may be viewed as
    resistance to change, and will be incriminating when over time desired results are not achieved.

    I am sure that people in the committee have been carefully selected and know their stuff.
    the training and coaching committee is supposed to provide that heli views as you mentioned

    but i am not sure about this now after misbun last mentioning in the press

    there could be something we don't know inside

    lets's hear their announcement in a couple of days

    and let's see what develops after that

  8. #246
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow This thread is created to fire/sack Misbun Sidek from BAM

    .
    This thread is created to fire/sack Misbun Sidek from BAM. So, let us allow Misbun to leave/resign.

    Will there be another BCer creating a thread such as "BAM - Please bring Misbun Sidek back"?

    Going with the thoughts of the thread starter here, I would say to Misbun; "Please don't return to BAM. Your work has not been appreciated".
    .

  9. #247
    Regular Member eRa@에라's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    That may not be true universally.

    China players are selected based on certain physical attributes to play badminton, those deemed unsuitable are diverted to say play tennis. They are then TAUGHT to play badminton thru the years.
    This accounts for the high incidence of Cyborg players, one of whom has become world champion, another who is fast maturing and rising rapidly in the ranks by leaps and bounds which we can observe in the GP Finals this Sunday.
    The China method is an alternative and may be necessary or prove to be more effective,but it will probably require a massive revamp of systems and thinking.I think this "factory" method produces a lot of "quality" players but they take a long time to mature and come to grips on how to put a personal touch, just as is happening to LD now.It may be worth thinking about.
    I dunno about others but when I think back of my early 20s, i would have been much better off if I had a mentor or someone to monitor me as then I didn't understand much about the world.
    Reasonable if I'm a freshie just beginning my journey as a national player... I also stand by a proverb "Malu bertanya sesat jalan" (when don't know, ask around.") during my time as a student and even now, since life is always a learning process...

    Regardless, when you finally learn and understand things, you should be able to make your own decision, taking into consideration the bad and the good and not continue to heavily rely on your mentor since it will not do you any good in long term. It's spoon feeding a baby till he grows old and be a man yet still being spoon feed... this situation in ones career is more or less similar as in ones life... as a person from time to time when we make mistake, we need someone to advise us, help us re-think our actions and from there we learn not to make the same mistake again... even with the best guidance, the decision is still in our hands. Even if a parent advise their children not to do drug for it will destroy them, but they still do it, that is their decision... I never imagine myself to be a financial analyst since it was never my forte/interest but I accepted the job and was trained to be really good in it. Though initially my knowledge was zero on the job, I finally reached the highest in my career with great determination and efforts to succeed. When my colleagues complaint of their mentors being too hard on them, I only listen cos I've been with as many as five great mentors (since we have this type of rotation system) whom were considered as killer (tough) but you just need to learn their differences in order for you to better adapt with their style of training/teaching/ways of doing things... only then will you survive ...(I respect and admire all of them for helping me grow to be where I am right now)

    To survive and succeed, your willingness is as important as any help/guidance you can get. When there's a will, there's a way... The way of thinking really need to change cos if the players keep thinking the coach is everything that can help them succeed then they will have to re-think again since the coach is not the person who's gonna hold that racquet on the tournament day... the coach is only guiding you but to actually be a better player, well, the decision is in your hand... you can be trained by the best of all the best but you can also decide to not be the best despite having all that. It's all in one's thinking and one's determination.

  10. #248
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    This thread is created to fire/sack Misbun Sidek from BAM. So, let us allow Misbun to leave/resign.

    Will there be another BCer creating a thread such as "BAM - Please bring Misbun Sidek back"?

    Going with the thoughts of the thread starter here, I would say to Misbun; "Please don't return to BAM. Your work has not been appreciated".
    .
    But the thread starter's work is only half finished....

  11. #249
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eRa@에라 View Post
    Reasonable if I'm a freshie just beginning my journey as a national player... I also stand by a proverb "Malu bertanya sesat jalan" (when don't know, ask around.") during my time as a student and even now, since life is always a learning process...

    Regardless, when you finally learn and understand things, you should be able to make your own decision, taking into consideration the bad and the good and not continue to heavily rely on your mentor since it will not do you any good in long term. It's spoon feeding a baby till he grows old and be a man yet still being spoon feed... this situation in ones career is more or less similar as in ones life... as a person from time to time when we make mistake, we need someone to advise us, help us re-think our actions and from there we learn not to make the same mistake again... even with the best guidance, the decision is still in our hands. Even if a parent advise their children not to do drug for it will destroy them, but they still do it, that is their decision... I never imagine myself to be a financial analyst since it was never my forte/interest but I accepted the job and was trained to be really good in it. Though initially my knowledge was zero on the job, I finally reached the highest in my career with great determination and efforts to succeed. When my colleagues complaint of their mentors being too hard on them, I only listen cos I've been with as many as five great mentors (since we have this type of rotation system) whom were considered as killer (tough) but you just need to learn their differences in order for you to better adapt with their style of training/teaching/ways of doing things... only then will you survive ...(I respect and admire all of them for helping me grow to be where I am right now)

    To survive and succeed, your willingness is as important as any help/guidance you can get. When there's a will, there's a way... The way of thinking really need to change cos if the players keep thinking the coach is everything that can help them succeed then they will have to re-think again since the coach is not the person who's gonna hold that racquet on the tournament day... the coach is only guiding you but to actually be a better player, well, the decision is in your hand... you can be trained by the best of all the best but you can also decide to not be the best despite having all that. It's all in one's thinking and one's determination.

    It all boils down to the capacity and level of the learner. Not everybody can learn by themselves and need good teachers, that's why some need tuition.
    This reminds me of the reply by one NSC director as to why Choong Tan Fook and Lee Wan Wah cannot think on Court,
    because he said " they are not smart, if they are smart they wouldn't choose to play badminton".
    I believe even teachers and trainers need to be well trained and understand the capabilities of learners well, given a weak
    bunch of learners we should not give up and say "you're all no good, I give up." Or even mention that "when I was at your age
    I could do this and that", that would not be very professional.
    In the Malaysian workplace and business though there is little emphasis on training and orientation,freshies are thrown into the deep end and the fittest survive, but that is not necessarily true of other places.
    A little bit of one to one teaching is still necessary, it depends on the learning level, capacity of the learner, what is being taught and also changes in youngsters.
    Academics will tell you that the most learning is in the early years and tapers off, learning is not just about knowing,it is also about understanding, applying, analysis,synthesis and critical thinking. It is not just"do what I do" as in business.How can youngsters learn all the above when they dont know what learning is all about?

  12. #250
    Regular Member eRa@에라's Avatar
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    True, different people different personality different way of adapting to situations… and we need different approach in teaching them. I agree to that. I’m no genius too… actually very far from it… but I learned to keep track of my many weaknesses and figured out the solutions so that I won’t be left behind… perhaps the problem with the young players is they don’t know how to overcome their weakness. Or to accept that they have weaknesses when told so, Or to realize that they even have one…. I don’t think coaches won’t point out each player’s weakness for them to improve on… perhaps it’s true they don’t know the right way of learning… I can’t really say… but it’s sad if that’s the case… and how to make them understand learning is really gonna be a tough job…

    “the reply by one NSC director as to why Choong Tan Fook and Lee Wan Wah cannot think on Court, because he said " they are not smart, if they are smart they wouldn't choose to play badminton".”

    IMO, this statement is unfair to the pair… smart can be in just about anything and not to be restricted to education smart… was he implying that badminton is the lest smart profession one can opt to do for a living? For a fool who can’t finish high school, this is their best bet for a career? He’s definitely not smart himself for coming out with such statement…

  13. #251
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eRa@에라 View Post

    IMO, this statement is unfair to the pair… smart can be in just about anything and not to be restricted to education smart… was he implying that badminton is the lest smart profession one can opt to do for a living? For a fool who can’t finish high school, this is their best bet for a career? He’s definitely not smart himself for coming out with such statement…
    since you brought it up, yes !

    wrong use, you will just make a fool of yourself

  14. #252
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    Let this guy have a break.. as his wish..

    wonder whether his brother is in another pressure as well?

  15. #253
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    Courtesy from the Star

    Misbun: I need a break

    MISBUN Sidek has stated that his patriotism should not be questioned just because he resigned as the national singles coach last week .

    Misbun said that badminton has been his life and he wants to take a temporary break and will return when he overcomes his anger and disappointment

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A wise decision from Datuk Misbun. Its better to have a break and then with a more relax soul and clear mindset, the next action that he will do will be properly made since the whole Malaysia specifically and the world generally are keen to hear and see what will be his next moves.

    He has been involved with Malaysia Badminton scenario for all this many years be it during its ups and down despite having his own family problems and this will be the best opportunity for him to take a break.

  16. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooting stroke View Post
    Courtesy from the Star

    Misbun: I need a break

    MISBUN Sidek has stated that his patriotism should not be questioned just because he resigned as the national singles coach last week .

    Misbun said that badminton has been his life and he wants to take a temporary break and will return when he overcomes his anger and disappointment

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A wise decision from Datuk Misbun. Its better to have a break and then with a more relax soul and clear mindset, the next action that he will do will be properly made since the whole Malaysia specifically and the world generally are keen to hear and see what will be his next moves.

    He has been involved with Malaysia Badminton scenario for all this many years be it during its ups and down despite having his own family problems and this will be the best opportunity for him to take a break.
    Yes, that's how I feel. Perhaps a short break for Misbun will do him good... inspire him to come up with new tactics to counter the Super Dan... we'll never know... boleh?

  17. #255
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    i wonder what triggered him to feel so angry and dissappointed

    i know there could be some 'old' reasons

    but could it also be because of some young players recently dropped by bam

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