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  1. #392
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I hope ZZ can.

    Chen Long climbed to the top with CBA. ZZ is different from CL, ZZ wants to climb up without BAM.

    CBA would not allow CL to climb to the top without CBA. The question is: Will BAM allow ZZ to climb without BAM?
    .
    These are rather strong accusations which should not be aired without much consideration and evidence.

    If BAM has no interest in ZZ's welfare, BAM would not have offered to take him in. But it seems ZZ prefers to remain with KLRC and so he has to bear with the consequences. In any case ZZ is just starting out in the long and arduous road in professional badminton. So don't make it out that he is going to be MAS's MS savior.

    Remember LCW is brought through the BAM system and has done very well for MAS.
    Last edited by Loh; 12-23-2011 at 09:51 PM.

  2. #393
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Strong accusations should not be aired without much consideration and evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    These are rather strong accusations which should not be aired without much consideration and evidence.

    If BAM has no interest in ZZ's welfare, BAM would not have offered to take him in. But it seems ZZ prefers to remain with KLRC and so he has to bear with the consequences. In any case ZZ is just starting out in the long and arduous road in professional badminton. So don't make it out that he is going to be MAS's MS savior.

    Remember LCW is brought through the BAM system and has done very well for MAS.
    .
    If you have read my posts (in the past so many years), I am dead against BAM (Malaysia), SBA (Singapore), CBA (China), and other National Associations that treat independent/club players with discrimination.

    I am for Denmark, Germany, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and other National Associations that treat independent/club players without discrimination.

    Perhaps, I shall say no more.
    .

  3. #394
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    And whatever criticism we may have against CBA and LYB, China Badminton is still tops in the world and a great force to reckon with. Their system of grooming and blooding their talents has generally been very successful as evidenced by their success in major tournaments. So CL and others like him should count themselves very lucky to have an extensive and comprehensive system to support their ambitions.

  4. #395
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    And whatever criticism we may have against CBA and LYB, China Badminton is still tops in the world and a great force to reckon with. Their system of grooming and blooding their talents has generally been very successful as evidenced by their success in major tournaments. So CL and others like him should count themselves very lucky to have an extensive and comprehensive system to support their ambitions.
    .
    Because I am supportive of ALL players (within and without their National Associations), therefore I am against National Associations that discriminate against players who want to play independently.
    .

  5. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajrul View Post
    maaaan ... this boy will be the most scrutinized player ever in BC if this continues... ...
    hehe
    just like how they treat koo/tan?haha

  6. #397
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Because I am supportive of ALL players (within and without their National Associations), therefore I am against National Associations that discriminate against players who want to play independently.
    .
    This is not a perfect world and there are no perfect systems to suit everybody. This applies to the badminton world as well. What may seem discriminatory to some may not be the same to others

  7. #398
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Because I am supportive of ALL players (within and without their National Associations), therefore I am against National Associations that discriminate against players who want to play independently.
    .
    This is not a perfect world and there are no perfect systems to suit everybody. This applies to the badminton world as well. What may seem discriminatory to some may not be the same to others. It depends on whose interest is affected.

    We have not arrived at a world without the need of government yet. So we need to take advantage of whatever is available to us and not to take issue with everything that seems to be against us. For there are others who managed to thrive in the same system.

    It is different though when we see discriminatory policies being enshrined in laws or constitutions because of race, language, religion or political affiliation.

    National badminton associations have to account for their failures at some stage of their development and change may then be necessary to enable them to succeed. It is no use to criticizing them so very often when their job has not been completed.

  8. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post

    National badminton associations have to account for their failures at some stage of their development and change may then be necessary to enable them to succeed. It is no use to criticizing them so very often when their job has not been completed.
    Uncle Loh, that's cos BAM has not been successful in producing a 2nd MS to assist LCW, with all the 'taxpayers money' pumped in. More so since the MD dept under Yap Kim Hock keep churning out WJC after WJC. At least got some hope after KKK/TBH.

    The AJC & WJC runner up/s, Iskandar & Loh WS are still are still struggling to find their footing. There's 8 years difference between LCW & Iskandar, 10 years between LCW & Zul.
    So, let Zul be the pioneer in the Independent players group. Who knows, Zul can make it better without all the politics(there are lots of it), red tape, constant criticism cos it's using taxpayers money.
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 12-24-2011 at 12:45 AM.

  9. #400
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    We have not arrived at a world without the need of government yet. So we need to take advantage of whatever is available to us and not to take issue with everything that seems to be against us. For there are others who managed to thrive in the same system.
    .
    You also need to understand what some of our players have gone through (discrimination done by their National Associations).

    Just to name a few (and you need to talk to them);

    * Chen Hong
    * Zhou Mi
    * Wang Chen
    * Zhang Beiwen
    * Gan Teik Chai and Tan Bin Shen
    * etc, etc, ......

    They would tell you that their National Associations are doing more harm than good to Badminton (as a sport available to all players).
    .

  10. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    We have not arrived at a world without the need of government yet. So we need to take advantage of whatever is available to us and not to take issue with everything that seems to be against us. For there are others who managed to thrive in the same system.
    disagree
    some minority didnt get mas government help,but they didnt starve to death.
    and to say that,thats might be the mental set of singaporean because they have good government

    as for zul case,if bam is not good enough,why bother to stay inside and spoil his future?

  11. #402
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    Uncle Loh, that's cos BAM has not been successful in producing a 2nd MS to assist LCW, with all the 'taxpayers money' pumped in. More so since the MD dept under Yap Kim Hock keep churning out WJC after WJC. At least got some hope after KKK/TBH.

    The AJC & WJC runner up/s, Iskandar & Loh WS are still are still struggling to find their footing. There's 8 years difference between LCW & Iskandar, 10 years between LCW & Zul.
    So, let Zul be the pioneer in the Independent players group. Who knows, Zul can make it better without all the politics(there are lots of it), red tape, constant criticism cos it's using taxpayers money.
    Yes we know MAS is somehow inadequate in the MS and WS department compared with it's main rivals. Even INA seems to be suffering the same situation with a much larger talent pool.

    But can we pinpoint that the administration and their system are to be blamed? Perhaps the quality of the players also play a part. Very good singles players are hard to come by especially for smaller countries with a smaller talent pool. They are different from doubles players. And it takes many years to produce a good player. Some of MAS backup players showed potential initially but somehow they underperformed later. Generally there is no lack of support from the administration but the question still remains why there is not much progress. So criticism from many angles begin to be directed at BAM. There is no easy answer.

  12. #403
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    well
    i have stated that rashid sidek is in charge of the project 2012 since 2005
    because of his inability as a coach,that's why we have this kind of situation currently on ms
    and
    i believe some people in charge of bam think as same as what u think
    that's why rashid sidek can always sit beside teh sb and yawning with disinterest
    yeah,keep rashid sidek in home and he will get u more failure
    congrats to bam,hehe

  13. #404
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Why don't National Associations support players doing their own things?

    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    well
    i have stated that rashid sidek is in charge of the project 2012 since 2005
    because of his inability as a coach,that's why we have this kind of situation currently on ms
    and
    i believe some people in charge of bam think as same as what u think
    that's why rashid sidek can always sit beside teh sb and yawning with disinterest
    yeah,keep rashid sidek in home and he will get u more failure
    congrats to bam,hehe
    .
    I agree... It looks like Loh thinks that the coaching is to be offered by BAM, and not by independent people.

    The comments that I have posted weren't to say that the coaching at BAM is not good. What I meant to say was that players should have the right to choose independent coaches or even go overseas to get coaching/training. And I said that these players should not get discriminated by BAM (or other National Associations).

    Even for Zhang Beiwen in SBA, I posted;
    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    I would support ZBW if she is not supported by SBA (to play at the Indonesian League).

    Why don't National Associations support players doing their own things independently? This, I have to say that I find it detrimental to our Badminton, as a growing sport.
    And for Zhou Mi, Loh should also realise that she won the 2009 Singapore Open SS WS title while not with CBA, but with KLRC and Hong Kong. In fact she defeated Xie Xingfang (from CBA).
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 12-24-2011 at 09:06 AM.

  14. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    disagree
    some minority didnt get mas government help,but they didnt starve to death.
    and to say that,thats might be the mental set of singaporean because they have good government

    as for zul case,if bam is not good enough,why bother to stay inside and spoil his future?
    Very well said....but I would change 'some minority didn't...' to 'most minority didn't..." and leave it as is, to say more would border into politics...

  15. #406
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Very well said....but I would change 'some minority didn't...' to 'most minority didn't..." and leave it as is, to say more would border into politics...
    Actually that's what I'm trying to say that even with constraints within the system there is nothing to stop people from bettering themselves. In MAS badminton LCW is a good example.

    And I'm also against covert discrimination that is legislated as I've mentioned in my earlier post.

  16. #407
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I agree... It looks like Loh thinks that the coaching is to be offered by BAM, and not by independent people.

    The comments that I have posted weren't to say that the coaching at BAM is not good. What I meant to say was that players should have the right to choose independent coaches or even go overseas to get coaching/training. And I said that these players should not get discriminated by BAM (or other National Associations).

    Even for Zhang Beiwen in SBA, I posted

    And for Zhou Mi, Loh should also realise that she won the 2009 Singapore Open SS WS title while not with CBA, but with KLRC and Hong Kong. In fact she defeated Xie Xingfang (from CBA).
    .
    I think you got it all wrong! It does not matter which organisation good coaches go to work with so long as they are happy and can do a good job. Whether it is a NA, club, school, etc depends on their ability and ambition.

    I do however feel that a proper setup like BAM would have much greater resources than even a club like KLRC (I think) to offer to the committed trainee with aspirations. Not just with proper coaching but including other attendant facilities and services like gym, sports science, medical, physiotherapy, administration including arranging for flights, accommodation and even meals, etc, etc.

    If a player still wants to choose a club and not BAM, I feel it is such a waste.

    As regards players whom Chris felt were being discriminated against, I don't have the facts to verify the truth or otherwise.

    But on ZBW, it is her own undoing because of disciplinary problems despite the fact that she has been given a second chance.

    To go against the administration that supported you without good reasons is not a wise thing to do with your career.
    Last edited by Loh; 12-24-2011 at 10:44 PM.

  17. #408
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow We need to return to around Post #170's of this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    As regards players whom Chris felt were being discriminated against, I don't have the facts to verify the truth or otherwise.
    .
    I am afraid that we are going round-and-round in circle.

    I am saying that BAM (or other National Association) should look after ALL their players participating for Malaysia (or their countries). Currently, BAM doesn't care for players not playing under BAM, but playing for Malaysia.

    It looks like we need to return to around Post #170's of this thread;

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    If that is so, then BAM is only interested in BAM players, and we can say that they are an association not for the 'Badminton Interest' of Malaysia.
    .

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