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  1. #528
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Precisely eaglehelang! Those of you who are truly concerned about Malaysian badminton will know better.

    I like how Dr. Andrew Kam and Misbun Sidek show their support for the talent regeneration process.
    Other National Associations like PBSI or Badminton Denmark themselves have to co-operate with the various clubs in their respective countries to promote and unearth regeneration process. So, I believe once the talents have dried up at BJSS, BAM will then be forced to look for other alternatives.

    And remember also, Viktor Axelsen is not simply a product of Badminton Denmark alone. He trained in his club (Odense BK) before he was called up to join the Danish Team.
    I think many countries, not only Malaysia alone, are concerned that their young talents are not committed enough to take badminton seriously because of so many other competing interests. They also know that when it comes to the international stage, many players will find it hard to beat their China counterparts.

    As mentioned by others, currently, not only is Malaysia in decline, even another better known badminton powerhouse, Indonesia, is powerless to turn things around despite the support of so many private clubs. On the other hand some other hitherto less powerful Asian countries like Japan, Taiwan, Thailand and India are making some headway.

    Are these countries' badminton setup vastly different from Malaysia's? Does the lack of clubs in Malaysia cause the slow decline of badminton in Malaysia?

    Since BAM receives most of its talents from the state associations, maybe they should look at how the states talent-scout and develop their talents. What sort of attention are badminton talents receiving in the schools, clubs and others and how are they being trained.

    Since Viktor's case is being mentioned, I salute his club Odense BK, for releasing him to Badminton Denmark to train with the national team. His club is not selfish and narrow-minded and does not want to rival the national association to fight for glory. I thought this is what KLRC should emulate Odense BK.

  2. #529
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    The irony is that BAM has to turn to Mohd Hafiz Hashim (now representing KLRC) for their own survival in the Thomas Cup Qualifying campaign.

    Imagine if KLRC (and Dr. Andrew Kam) is to treat BAM as a rival....they can just refuse to let Hafiz join up with the other players and let BAM rely only on the youngsters in the team event.
    If HH is not released by KLRC for national duty, then some will say BAM is biased against "independent" players. HH himself may also seek to represent MAS for many of the rewards and incentives that BAM had given him in the past.

    But HH may not win any points for MAS in the TC. Even without him, some others in the team will be given a chance to shine. I believe some in the current national squad had beaten HH before.

  3. #530
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    This is a common problem with fans in Malaysia. There must be a scapegoat and that scapegoat must not be "me". It has to be as always BAM. No wonder they never solve the problem. And they never will.
    How sad. But what do you expect?

  4. #531
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Many sports have their national associations allowing players to train at clubs

    .
    There are so many popular sports where their national associations allow players to train at their clubs.

    And when it's time to select a national team, the national association would go out to select the best players from the different clubs.

    As in Australia, all our popular sports are done this way. Just to name some sports that do it this way;
    * Basketball
    * Cricket
    * Football
    * Hockey
    * Netball
    * Tennis
    * Volleyball
    * etc, etc, ......

    In fact, with the government funds given to our national associations, these funds are in turn allocated out (to help) to various clubs who are having financial problems due to little support from private sponsorship (when these clubs not strong, and/or just starting).

    In most of many postings, perhaps I am influenced by how things are done in Australia. But the important thing is "This system works".

    However, for Badminton in Australia, no clubs have attracted top talented players to participate in them yet. And also, Badminton is not popular in Australia.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-27-2012 at 01:24 AM.

  5. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    There are so many popular sports where their national associations allow players to train at their clubs.

    And when it's time to select a national team, the national association would go out to select the best players from the different clubs.

    As in Australia, all our popular sports are done this way. Just to name some sports that do it this way;
    * Basketball
    * Cricket
    * Football
    * Hockey
    * Netball
    * Tennis
    * Volleyball
    * etc, etc, ......

    In fact, with the government funds given to our national associations, these funds are in turn allocated out (to help) to various clubs who are having financial problems due to little support from private sponsorship (when these clubs not strong, and/or just starting).

    In most of many postings, perhaps I am influenced by how things are done in Australia. But the important thing is "This system works".

    However, for Badminton in Australia, no clubs have attracted top talented players to participate in them yet.
    .
    Let us restrict to badminton as it is the only relevant racket game we are talking about here.
    In badminton, only countries that have intense centralized training become powerhouses, not those going independent. In other words, the more independent a badminton nation becomes, the wosre off it becomes. Now, what are the facts to back this up? Look at China and Korea versus Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Perhaps, an elementary outline on sports organization that is fundamental to its progress is helpful.
    In any country, any sports must be organized to function well. The pathway is bottoms up, from the lowest village clubs, schools, to the districts, metropolis, states/provinces, and finally the national level. The "bottoms" are the breeding grounds and their job is to spot, scout, train and then feed talents to the next higher level/levels, not competing against it. At the state/provincial level there must be only one governing body. Likewise at the national levels there must be one supreme body. All clubs must be part of the various state/provincial or even district levels.
    No independent clubs should be independent except for those that are part of recreational clubs for retired business people or millionaires, where players with "expired dates" can have at least an extension of their playing life.
    It is incumbent upon any lower tiers of organization to promote their star players who have great national or international potential to the state or national levels instead of trying to be too smart and try to "steal" resources on a pick-and-choose basis. Who the hell do they think they are?
    Now, both Malaysia and Indonesia, pls get the above sorted out and go back to the correct path before it is too late!

  6. #533
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb All the other sports were like Badminton decades ago

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Let us restrict to badminton as it is the only relevant racket game we are talking about here.
    In badminton, only countries that have intense centralized training become powerhouses, not those going independent. In other words, the more independent a badminton nation becomes, the wosre off it becomes. Now, what are the facts to back this up? Look at China and Korea versus Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Perhaps, an elementary outline on sports organization that is fundamental to its progress is helpful.
    In any country, any sports must be organized to function well. The pathway is bottoms up, from the lowest village clubs, schools, to the districts, metropolis, states/provinces, and finally the national level. The "bottoms" are the breeding grounds and their job is to spot, scout, train and then feed talents to the next higher level/levels, not competing against it. At the state/provincial level there must be only one governing body. Likewise at the national levels there must be one supreme body. All clubs must be part of the various state/provincial or even district levels.
    No independent clubs should be independent except for those that are part of recreational clubs for retired business people or millionaires, where players with "expired dates" can have at least an extension of their playing life.
    It is incumbent upon any lower tiers of organization to promote their star players who have great national or international potential to the state or national levels instead of trying to be too smart and try to "steal" resources on a pick-and-choose basis. Who the hell do they think they are?
    Now, both Malaysia and Indonesia, pls get the above sorted out and go back to the correct path before it is too late!
    .
    Believe in it or not... All the other sports were like Badminton decades ago.

    To my mind, Badminton is one of the few sports that have not progressed over the years.

    I have just being told that the BWF President, Paisan Rangsikitpho, just dropped by at our Badminton Victoria offices today (Friday 27-Jan-2012). Unfortunately, I didn't know earlier and to get to meet him; otherwise, I would have discussed with him about this topic too.

    This just my opinion - On how we can copy other sports that have made their sports more popular.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-27-2012 at 02:01 AM.

  7. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Believe in it or not... All the other sports were like Badminton decades ago.

    To my mind, Badminton is one of the few sports that have not progressed over the years.

    I have just being told that the BWF President, Paisan Rangsikitpho, just dropped by at our Badminton Victoria offices today (Friday 27-Jan-2012). Unfortunately, I didn't know earlier and to get to meet him; otherwise, I would have discussed with him about this topic too.

    This just my opinion - On how we can copy other sports that have made their sports more popular.
    .
    No, badminton is a very different game from other racket games. Of course it has progressed more than any other racket games. It has more than double the number of players than tennis right now and the margin will be perhaps ten times more in less than 5 years.
    My advice is a straight "don't copy blindly", but innovate.
    Also talking to BWF officials will not make your case any more relevant. Perhaps, it might have unintended consequences! Also, there are better and more humble ways to put your ideas across than dropping names, which often reveals lack of confidence and conviction.

  8. #535
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    BJSS is the main source where the talents come from. State associations provide the talents to BJss. Not all parents favor this route as the child dont do well in academics when they join BJSS. The other reason was mentioned a China coach who coached for BAM bf. Sthing abt state associations dont get benefit if the youngster is roped into national team. Whoever remember the post pls point it out.

    The other thing is Andrew Kam always maintained KLRC/badminton is more of a part time thing for him, his bread and butter is mining gold. So, he give impression -Players want join me club, join lah. Dont want join already, never mind lah, me no care. Gold more important, this badminton venture small fish thing only.

  9. #536
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Question Don't copy blindly? Don't talk to BWF officials?

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    No, badminton is a very different game from other racket games. Of course it has progressed more than any other racket games. It has more than double the number of players than tennis right now and the margin will be perhaps ten times more in less than 5 years.
    My advice is a straight "don't copy blindly", but innovate.
    Also talking to BWF officials will not make your case any more relevant. Perhaps, it might have unintended consequences! Also, there are better and more humble ways to put your ideas across than dropping names, which often reveals lack of confidence and conviction.
    .
    Don't copy blindly?... Of course not. Badminton couldn't get enough money at this moment of time. Sponsors are saying: Badminton gets most of the money from tax-players (budget from government), so it should be OK.

    Talking to BWF officials will not make my case any more relevant?... If I don't talk to BWF officials to make changes, then who else can I talk to?
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-27-2012 at 03:33 AM.

  10. #537
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Don't copy blindly?... Of course not. Badminton couldn't get enough money at this moment of time. Sponsors are saying: Badminton gets most of the money from tax-players (budget from government), so it should be OK.

    Talking to BWF officials will not make my case any more relevant?... If I don't talk to BWF officials to make changes, then who else can I talk to?
    .

    Which sport will say they get enough money from the government? Soccer, which generally gets a very high budget because of its mass appeal? How does badminton rank? Take a case from INA when PBSI is reportedly financially weak with insufficent funding from the government.

    Please refrain from using the word tax-payers as taxes come mainly from the large non-government corporations and high income individuals. You are trying to paint a poor picture of the government.

    Remember the government has to manage the country and there are much more important things than just sports alone. When citizens do not have enough to eat, no place to stay, can't afford to send their children to school, etc, who has to care for them?

    If you have constructive suggestions that are practical and not complaints and unrealistic dreams all the time, that will be a good start.

  11. #538
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs down BCers are now not commenting on the topic, but on us posters

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Please refrain from using the word tax-payers as taxes come mainly from the large non-government corporations and high income individuals. You are trying to paint a poor picture of the government.

    If you have constructive suggestions that are practical and not complaints and unrealistic dreams all the time, that will be a good start.
    .
    I think I am falling into a trap again, similar to how I was attacked in this thread: Tang Xianhu (The Thing), found located at;

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...39#post1827439

    BCers are now not commenting on the topic, but on us posters.


    I shall change channel now - And watch our 2012 Australian Tennis Open playing as I type.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-27-2012 at 04:29 AM.

  12. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I think I am falling into a trap again, similar to how I was attacked in this thread: Tang Xianhu (The Thing), found located at;

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...39#post1827439

    BCers are now not commenting on the topic, but on us posters.


    I shall change channel now - And watch our 2012 Australian Tennis Open playing as I type.
    .
    Please, it is not a case of you falling into a trap again. This happens and it will always come to this if you keep championing or advocating half baked ideas or basking yourself with countless number of times of name dropping.
    Maybe, you forgot about a missed opportunity to tell Barcelona's Messi that he would be even better if he opts to train on his own (going independent) outside Barcelona's centralized training.

  13. #540
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    It is indeed amusing to read some comments from non Msians who seem more interested in young Zul but some who did not follow certain developments, .

  14. #541
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    people always talkssss even they never even watch the player play before
    hehe
    but yet they talk like they know more than those who follow zul progress
    yawn

  15. #542
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The character, effect or atmosphere of a thread is usually revealed in earlier posts

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    It is indeed amusing to read some comments from non Msians who seem more interested in young Zul but some who did not follow certain developments, .
    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    people always talkssss even they never even watch the player play before
    hehe
    but yet they talk like they know more than those who follow zul progress
    yawn
    .
    The character, effect or atmosphere of a thread is usually shown in the first few posts. Only wish that BCers get to read them first.

    Post #1:
    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    “Currently, my world ranking is quite low. I will continue to play in international tournaments to win ranking points and also to gain as much experience as possible,” he said.

    On whether he would want to join the national badminton set-up now that he has completed his SPM, Zulfadli said: “I have not decided yet.

    Anyway, there is not much difference whether I am in or out. I only miss out on quality sparring but I can make up by competing in many tournaments.
    Yes, it's strange that some BCers are so sure that their thinking is right, and that Zulfadli Zulkifli's is wrong.
    .

  16. #543
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    Well, Zul's ranking has improved from as low as 251 at the end of Aug 2011 to the current ranking of 125, which I believe is his personal high. I think he's in the right track so far. Sure, he has a lot to catch up to Viktor Axelsen (WR 36) and the way he can do that is by carefully planning his participation in international tourneys.

    I believe he will participate in the upcoming Vietnam IC.

  17. #544
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    The character, effect or atmosphere of a thread is usually shown in the first few posts. Only wish that BCers get to read them first.

    [B]Post #1[/]
    Yes, it's strange that some BCers are so sure that their thinking is right, and that Zulfadli Zulkifli's is wrong.
    .
    I think you are revealing more about yourself.

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