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  1. #545
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Hope that ZZ will participate in the upcoming 2012 Vietnam IC

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Well, Zul's ranking has improved from as low as 251 at the end of Aug 2011 to the current ranking of 125, which I believe is his personal high. I think he's in the right track so far. Sure, he has a lot to catch up to Viktor Axelsen (WR 36) and the way he can do that is by carefully planning his participation in international tourneys.

    I believe he will participate in the upcoming Vietnam IC.
    .
    Yes, hope that ZZ will participate in the upcoming 2012 Vietnam IC.

    Current Juniors Ranking (as at 26-Jan-2012), ZZ is still ranked as No.2.

    http://bwf.tournamentsoftware.com/ra...ng.aspx?rid=98

    Regarding disturbing/trolling posters, they have been added to the "Ignore List".
    .

  2. #546
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    It is indeed amusing to read some comments from non Msians who seem more interested in young Zul but some who did not follow certain developments, .
    Look here. This is a free BC forum that non-Malaysians who wish to contribute their views can do so. If you don't want foreign participation, then you should not post here. Keep it among your own circle.

    And I wonder whether chris-ccc is a Malaysian since he has been posting so much in this thread.
    Last edited by Loh; 01-27-2012 at 08:42 PM.

  3. #547
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    After a lengthy conversation with Hau-Ge, apparently, only a few countries have adopted the full-centralized training like CBA, BAM or PBSI.

    In Thailand, Boonsak Ponsana (still the highest ranked there) is sponsored by Li-Ning. He, together with the top 2 XD doubles pair of Sudket/Saralee and Songphon/Kunchala, plus Porntip (WR14, one below Ratchanok), and the top WD pair of Kunchala/Duang-Anong are not part of the centralized training system.

    In Taiwan, the clubs still sponsor the individual players' participation to international tourneys and the players only gather together for a short-while before important tourneys.

    In Japan, the association only guarantees a fixed number of tourneys (usually the important ones only). If the players wish to participate in more tourneys (like Sato/Kawamae in the India Open GPG), the clubs (Tonami, Unisys, etc) will fund their participation. That's why some players wore the club's shirt during some tourneys.

    In India, Saina Nehwal, Gurusaidatt R.M.V, P.V. Sindhu, by P. Kashyap are currently trained at the Gopichand Badminton Academy (which is similar to clubs like PB Djarum in INA) and probably separate from the other doubles players too.

    In Europe, the system is also similar to Japan. The association (like Badminton Denmark) only sponsors some tourneys and the players have to find sponsorships for others. That's why I remembered during some tourneys 2-3 years ago, even top players like Thomas Laybourn had to openly announce that he needed sponsorships to be able to continue his playing career.

    I really cannot imagine if these national associations treat the clubs (that provide various monetary sponsorships to the players) as rivals. Badminton will be doomed for sure if players solely rely on the centralized training system provided by the national association for their livelihood!

    Also, luckily in INA, we have clubs that are now more proactive in scouring talents (like what KLRC has done for Zul). I also shudder to think of an even worse outcome we will have if these activities are left to the state association (with very little budget from the top). I believe the situation is the same in Malaysia.

    No doubt, INA badminton is currently in decline (due to the over-reliant on senior players over the past 5-6 years and the dormant domestic tourneys). But, things have slowly changed since 2010 and already we have seen a few good results in the AJC & WJC over the past few years, culminating with Gloria/Afian winning the XD title at the WJC 2011 (the first time we won that since 1992). Other clubs (like Mutiara) have also recognized the importance of international exposure and they also began to include their players in a few regional tourneys.

    KLRC and Nusa Mansuri could take heed of what PB Djarum did in 2009, by providing badminton scholarships to talents like Zul and grooming them till they are deemed fit to be called up to the National Team. Even if ultimately players decide not to join (or kicked out by) the National Team, clubs should also be pro-active in supporting these players.

  4. #548
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Many thanks for the interesting information about the badminton scene in other countries.
    As I have said before one must expect the badminton setup and organisation in various countries to evolve over time depending on prevailing circumstances.

    One major limitation is finance as not all national associations or clubs are richly endowed or are able to attract major sponsors. Then there is the question of mobilization when talented players come from different parts of a big country.

  5. #549
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Many thanks for the interesting information about the badminton scene in other countries. As I have said before one must expect the badminton setup and organisation in various countries to evolve over time depending on prevailing circumstances.

    One major limitation is finance as not all national associations or clubs are richly endowed or are able to attract major sponsors. Then there is the question of mobilization when talented players come from different parts of a big country.

    Of course even such obstacles can be overcomed with good administrative and infrastructural support. However each country will have to sort out what is the best solution to their unique situation. So unlike when badminton was in it's initial stages, when a sole entity like the national association had to assume all responsibilities, it has now slowly decentralized as mentioned in your post. Major clubs which are financially strong and are able to take over the player development duties of NAs have appeared and seemed to work well with their respective national associations. I believe it must have taken some time and effort for them to agree to a workable solution.

    Now the situation in MAS is different. There is still a strong centralized system with BAM at the helm, while the state associations continue to do their part to supply talents to BAM. There was no known club system that could replicate the work of BAM, a government entity. Then the ZZ saga has thrown the norm out of shape when KLRC came out in the open to challenge
    BAM for possession of ZZ. We know that ZZ also preferred to remain with KLRC. So BAM left it at that.

    However ZZ wants to be able to train with some members of the national team in order to expedite his own development. Quite understandably BAM would not agree as it is competing with KLRC for ZZ. Since KLRC wants ZZ, it has to take responsibility for his full development.

    From the information I gathered in this forum, KLRC has been supporting badminton players at home and abroad, mainly financially. I doubt it has a full complement of facilities and supporting services like BAM to help develop a player at the national level, unlike perhaps some of the clubs that was mentioned by badMania. Therefore I think ZZ may have been short changed by staying with KLRC and not BAM. Of course time will tell if ZZ has made the right decision.
    Last edited by Loh; 01-27-2012 at 11:20 PM.

  6. #550
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The club champions all want to be the best players in their countries

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    I really cannot imagine if these national associations treat the clubs (that provide various monetary sponsorships to the players) as rivals. Badminton will be doomed for sure if players solely rely on the centralized training system provided by the national association for their livelihood!

    Also, luckily in INA, we have clubs that are now more proactive in scouring talents (like what KLRC has done for Zul). I also shudder to think of an even worse outcome we will have if these activities are left to the state association (with very little budget from the top). I believe the situation is the same in Malaysia.

    No doubt, INA badminton is currently in decline (due to the over-reliant on senior players over the past 5-6 years and the dormant domestic tourneys). But, things have slowly changed since 2010 and already we have seen a few good results in the AJC & WJC over the past few years, culminating with Gloria/Afian winning the XD title at the WJC 2011 (the first time we won that since 1992). Other clubs (like Mutiara) have also recognized the importance of international exposure and they also began to include their players in a few regional tourneys.

    KLRC and Nusa Mansuri could take heed of what PB Djarum did in 2009, by providing badminton scholarships to talents like Zul and grooming them till they are deemed fit to be called up to the National Team. Even if ultimately players decide not to join (or kicked out by) the National Team, clubs should also be pro-active in supporting these players.
    .
    One thing I like about the club set-up is that there is a healthy competition between the players (from different clubs).

    Clubs have their own club champions. The club champions all want to be the best players in their countries and wish to be called in to form their national teams.

    Currently BAM give out a false thinking to their players. Players are thinking that when they are in the BAM set-up, they are the best in Malaysia.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-28-2012 at 12:08 AM.

  7. #551
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    FYI, Zul had been asked to join BAM but his father had some conditions which it is hard for BAM to accept...we did talk to LCW during Macau Open..one of the conditions that Zul asked is to train together with LCW which LCW said that it is impossible for him to spar with Zul every time...Also what I have informed to Badmania that many players are actually independent nows....for those who said that INA badminton will disappear..just watch INA within 2 years....

  8. #552
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    This si first time that Djarum decided to keep their MD in the club and not to PBSI..Djarum is planning to send them to more international tourneys....for BAM and KLRC..they are not rival..but there is a story why BAM does not like KLRC..

  9. #553
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    you do notice that she has a smiley .. err i mean smiley with tongue (i am old ... not sure what the tongue meant)...at the end of her sentence.. perhaps indicating that she might be in jest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Look here. This is a free BC forum that non-Malaysians who wish to contribute their views can do so. If you don't want foreign participation, then you should not post here. Keep it among your own circle.

    And I wonder whether chris-ccc is a Malaysian since he has been posting so much in this thread.

  10. #554
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajrul View Post
    you do notice that she has a smiley .. err i mean smiley with tongue (i am old ... not sure what the tongue meant)...at the end of her sentence.. perhaps indicating that she might be in jest?
    I certainly hope you are right.

  11. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangkwokhau View Post
    This si first time that Djarum decided to keep their MD in the club and not to PBSI..Djarum is planning to send them to more international tourneys....for BAM and KLRC..they are not rival..but there is a story why BAM does not like KLRC..
    Care to enlighten us?

  12. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Look here. This is a free BC forum that non-Malaysians who wish to contribute their views can do so. If you don't want foreign participation, then you should not post here. Keep it among your own circle.

    And I wonder whether chris-ccc is a Malaysian since he has been posting so much in this thread.
    The problem is the tone, some of you post2 like you all know more/experience more than the taxpaying voting Malaysians who are staying in Msia & have been following the...issues closely for several years and are directly affected by whatever policies that has been made. And then we have to re-post on all the history on "actually it was like this,like that, etc,etc."
    All the recents posts has got me thinking - Only a Msian who has stayed or currently staying in Msia would get the whole scenario, chris@ccc was from Msia, OTB also.

    I comment very little on Singapore players or the policies of Spore BA as I am not Spore fan & is not a Sporean taxpayer & therefore not my....business to comment on Spore BA.
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 01-28-2012 at 04:57 AM.

  13. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by madbad View Post
    Care to enlighten us?
    Maybe...not, lol. Tell half the story then the other half didnt tell. But one do get the vibes on BAM being 'anti' KLRC, for years. Of course, I dont think Datuk Andrew Kam himself is a saint either, some politics going on.

  14. #558
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    The problem is the tone, some of you post2 like you all know more/experience more than the taxpaying voting Malaysians who are staying in Msia & have been following the...issues closely for several years and are directly affected by whatever policies that has been made. And then we have to re-post on all the history on "actually it was like this,like that, etc,etc."
    All the recents posts has got me thinking - Only a Msian who has stayed or currently staying in Msia would get the whole scenario, chris@ccc was from Msia, OTB also.

    I comment very little on Singapore players or the policies of Spore BA as I am not Spore fan & is not a Sporean taxpayer & therefore not my....business to comment on Spore BA.
    Are you therefore saying that Malaysian fans are always right and third party views are always wrong?

    I would expect the necessary information on the subject to be included in this thread to engage us in meaningful discussion. If it is necessary to provide more details to clarify certain points or to enlarge the discussion, it is good that members bring them out.

    If you don't feel up to the task to discuss subjects of other countries it is your choice but it should not prevent others from participating.

    There are BC rules here to regulate discussions and to encourage self-regulation in case one should step out of line.

  15. #559
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    Good one. Lots of 'kay poh' around to meddle with Malaysia's future interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    people always talkssss even they never even watch the player play before
    hehe
    but yet they talk like they know more than those who follow zul progress
    yawn

  16. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Are you therefore saying that Malaysian fans are always right and third party views are always wrong?
    I would expect the necessary information on the subject to be included in this thread to engage us in meaningful discussion. If it is necessary to provide more details to clarify certain points or to enlarge the discussion, it is good that members bring them out.
    If you don't feel up to the task to discuss subjects of other countries it is your choice but it should not prevent others from participating.
    There are BC rules here to regulate discussions and to encourage self-regulation in case one should step out of line.
    Nope, it's not the issue of right or wrong. It's the case of not updating oneself 1st before commenting, esp on issues or policies or history that has already been discussed, many times. And tone....If I do comment on other countries, I would try to do it like an outsider, not with the tone like I am high ranking citizen of that country.

    Therefore, I'll expect other members to do own research 1st before say2,since I do my own research 1st before commenting, this is not a class, eagle is not teacher. Dont make us slap hand on head,which has happened quite often in this thread, lol.
    Anyway uncle, I dont want to further argue on this, we go back to Zul. No 125, still got some way to climb to top 50
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 01-28-2012 at 06:08 AM.

  17. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    The problem is the tone, some of you post2 like you all know more/experience more than the taxpaying voting Malaysians who are staying in Msia & have been following the...issues closely for several years and are directly affected by whatever policies that has been made. And then we have to re-post on all the history on "actually it was like this,like that, etc,etc."
    LOL....and all those posts about the "rivalry" between KLRC and BAM when in fact there shouldn't be one as Hau-Ge as confirmed.

    The facts are (just in case some were confused by recent posts):
    1. BAM invited Zul to join the National Team
    2. Zul's father was willing to release Zul on the condition that Zul can train together with LCW IF ZUL DOES JOIN THE NATIONAL TEAM (a fair condition I should say considering LCW is the strongest player in BAM and all those young players in BAM should by right train with him).
    3. LCW said he couldn't train with Zul every time, even if Zul already joins the national team.
    4. After some consideration, Zul decided not to join BAM.

    Do correct me if I am wrong here.

    It's a simple story of an invitation which was declined. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. Zul has the right to reject the invitation if he thinks the conditions at KLRC is better than that of BAM. It was his personal choice and of course, he does have to bear the consequences of staying at KLRC. I am pretty sure he and his dad must have already weighed all the pros and cons.

    Unfortunately, it was made complicated by the claims of "KLRC came to challenge BAM over the possession of Zul" etc. Zul is already part of KLRC...why should KLRC fight over him with BAM anyway. Moreover, Dr. Andrew Kam had already said that he also gave Zul his full support if he decided to join BAM. It was Zul (and his dad)'s decision not to be part of the national team and remains in KLRC.

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