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  1. #766
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    Good to see him beat players more senior than him. Good start.

    He can seek assistance from people outside BAM. For example, Han Jian (if he's still in malaysia) or Misbun... and gain more international exposure in competitions.

    BAM is not the only solution. Many ways to skin a cat.
    Last edited by ksquared; 07-16-2012 at 04:47 AM.

  2. #767
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksquared View Post
    Good to see him beat players more senior than him. Good start.

    He can seek assistance from people outside BAM. For example, Han Jian (if he's still in malaysia) or Misbun... and gain more international exposure in competitions.

    BAM is not the only solution. Many ways to skin a cat.
    But BAM is the most practical and as he is in a special position, he will have lots of opportunities than others for international competitions.

    Lip service by former greats can help but little. It is the practical aspects of regular training in a proper setup like BAM that can help him to advance faster and realise his ambition.

  3. #768
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    Sorry double posting.
    Last edited by Loh; 07-16-2012 at 05:04 AM.

  4. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    But BAM is the most practical and as he is in a special position, he will have lots of opportunities than others for international competitions.

    Lip service by former greats can help but little. It is the practical aspects of regular training in a proper setup like BAM that can help him to advance faster and realise his ambition.
    why is he in special position if bam dont think he deserve to be TC reserve ms?

  5. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    why is he in special position if bam dont think he deserve to be TC reserve ms?
    I think BAM did not think he was ready then, not even now.

    BAM quite understandably preferred the backup players like Darien and CWF, whose performances were being monitored closely as they were and are BAM's trainees.

    By saying ZZ is in a special position refers to his opportunities after he has joined BAM and showed that he had good potential to be a champion like LCW. Still he has to prove himself.

  6. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    But BAM is the most practical and as he is in a special position, he will have lots of opportunities than others for international competitions.

    Lip service by former greats can help but little. It is the practical aspects of regular training in a proper setup like BAM that can help him to advance faster and realise his ambition.
    I am not sure if BAM has the right/proper setup nor does it have the appropriate regular training methods. Just look at their younger singles players. none of them are making any real breakthroughs. It hurts to say this but i dont even consider DL making any major breakthroughs (having malaysian blood in me, i do wish they will in time to come).

    I believe many of us understood why Han Jian, misbun, li mao and others quit.....

    And mind you, good coaches are not just lip service. alot more is involved in coaching than just opening their mouths.
    Last edited by ksquared; 07-16-2012 at 05:34 AM.

  7. #772
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    I quite understand the disappointments many ardent MAS fans have on BAM's administration in the past and the lack of star quality trainees coming through the BAM system thus far.

    But producing a star player takes a long time, LCW being a good example. He did not inspire during his early days as a pro. I have seen him being knocked out in the early rounds of the S'pore Open. He made good later, I believe, by changing his attitude as a serous professional and worked very hard to achieving his goals.

    Therefore even the BAM system, no matter how negative outsiders may perceive it to be, has
    helped LCW make good. It could therefore be said that even with the best facilities a professional cannot be guaranteed success if he is not prepared physically and mentally to face tough challenges in training and in competitions. Without proper facilities and resources it will even be tougher.

    For whatever it's worth, BAM has produced champions before. There is no reason why it cannot continue to do so, given the right material.

  8. #773
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    For what it's worth, Zul beat Iskandar en route to Sukma finals. Ramdan also lost in the other half of the draw.
    Iskandar is 2 years Zul's senior, I rated him as better potential than Zul in terms of skills. While Ramdan, being born into badminton playing family, is better in his mental strength.
    Zul in BAM, nope, if Zul went thru BJSS, he will not be the WJC. If he is in BAM now, he'll only be sparring partner. If Iskandar who is better is not making a breakthru yet, in BAM Zul will get less chances and end up in the backburner, along the lines of Lim Fang Yang. Just observe and see what will happen to Syawal, Goh Soon Huat, Loh Wei Sheng. Loh WS has better chance cos he was AJC runner up but will not be champion anywhere close to even WCH's level.
    We dont have Yang Yang, Misbun, Li Mao as coaches. With Rashid as chief, everyone knows very well what happens.

  9. #774
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    I quite understand the disappointments many ardent MAS fans have on BAM's administration in the past and the lack of star quality trainees coming through the BAM system thus far.

    But producing a star player takes a long time, LCW being a good example. He did not inspire during his early days as a pro. I have seen him being knocked out in the early rounds of the S'pore Open. He made good later, I believe, by changing his attitude as a serous professional and worked very hard to achieving his goals.

    Therefore even the BAM system, no matter how negative outsiders may perceive it to be, has
    helped LCW make good. It could therefore be said that even with the best facilities a professional cannot be guaranteed success if he is not prepared physically and mentally to face tough challenges in training and in competitions. Without proper facilities and resources it will even be tougher.

    For whatever it's worth, BAM has produced champions before. There is no reason why it cannot continue to do so, given the right material.

  10. #775
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    Sorry for the double posting again. I'm no good on the iPhone.

    Junior players are just what they are expected to be. We have been reminded that in these columns that even world junior champions have dropped out of circulation and some of those still hanging around continue to find the going tough and have yet to produce the desired results.

    So too with ZZ. He may have performed well just a while ago but he did not win the Russian Open? nor did he do well in the Axiata Challenge. It is consistency that is more important just as LCW has proven as WR1 for so long.

    Of course some will argue that he will make good at his present club but I disagree and consider it a pity that he is not advancing as fast as Viktor Axelsen DEN who was defeated by ZZ at the last world junior championships. I think his chances with BAM are much better.

  11. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    For what it's worth, Zul beat Iskandar en route to Sukma finals. Ramdan also lost in the other half of the draw.
    Iskandar is 2 years Zul's senior, I rated him as better potential than Zul in terms of skills. While Ramdan, being born into badminton playing family, is better in his mental strength.
    Zul in BAM, nope, if Zul went thru BJSS, he will not be the WJC. If he is in BAM now, he'll only be sparring partner. If Iskandar who is better is not making a breakthru yet, in BAM Zul will get less chances and end up in the backburner, along the lines of Lim Fang Yang. Just observe and see what will happen to Syawal, Goh Soon Huat, Loh Wei Sheng. Loh WS has better chance cos he was AJC runner up but will not be champion anywhere close to even WCH's level.
    We dont have Yang Yang, Misbun, Li Mao as coaches. With Rashid as chief, everyone knows very well what happens.
    ouch,that is very true. very very true

  12. #777
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    it takes a lot of failures before success... some champions fail more than others, some champions seems to have enchanted lives.... but you do need failures (somebody google how many failures NASA have had before putting a man on the moon). Coming from a culture that fears failure.. its hard for an 18/19 year old kid to come to terms. But I hope it does not come to a point where he fear failures himself.. despite this cultural handicap

    how many failures does ZZ need? who knows...
    but in his short interview yesterday after his sukma triumph.. he understands that this is just a local tourney... he acknowledges his failures in the international arena.. he says he is going to continue trying..

    who are we to say that he should stop just because he kept failing in all his international events so far?
    Last edited by pajrul; 07-16-2012 at 04:10 PM.

  13. #778
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    For what it's worth, Zul beat Iskandar en route to Sukma finals. Ramdan also lost in the other half of the draw.
    Iskandar is 2 years Zul's senior, I rated him as better potential than Zul in terms of skills. While Ramdan, being born into badminton playing family, is better in his mental strength.
    Zul in BAM, nope, if Zul went thru BJSS, he will not be the WJC. If he is in BAM now, he'll only be sparring partner. If Iskandar who is better is not making a breakthru yet, in BAM Zul will get less chances and end up in the backburner, along the lines of Lim Fang Yang. Just observe and see what will happen to Syawal, Goh Soon Huat, Loh Wei Sheng. Loh WS has better chance cos he was AJC runner up but will not be champion anywhere close to even WCH's level.
    .
    For Zul having defeated Iskandar, I am sure that he (Zul) would be encouraged to continue to work harder to raise his ranking within Malaysia.

    IMHO, players should perform well against players in his/her country first; before tackling the world.
    .

  14. #779
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajrul View Post
    it takes a lot of failures before success... some champions fail more than others, some champions seems to have enchanted lives.... but you do need failures (somebody google how many failures NASA have had before putting a man on the moon). Coming from a culture that fears failure.. its hard for an 18/19 year old kid to come to terms. But I hope it does not come to a point where he fear failures himself.. despite this cultural handicap

    how many failures does ZZ need? who knows...
    but in his short interview yesterday after his sukma triumph.. he understands that this is just a local tourney... he acknowledges his failures in the international arena.. he says he is going to continue trying..

    who are we to say that he should stop just because he kept failing in all his international events so far?
    .
    Zul doesn't need to check on the many failures of NASA; Zul only needs to know LCW's records.

    BTW, Zul's idol is Taufik Hidayat.
    .

  15. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    I think BAM did not think he was ready then, not even now.

    BAM quite understandably preferred the backup players like Darien and CWF, whose performances were being monitored closely as they were and are BAM's trainees.

    By saying ZZ is in a special position refers to his opportunities after he has joined BAM and showed that he had good potential to be a champion like LCW. Still he has to prove himself.
    if not even now,how can u say he is in special position?

  16. #781
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    if not even now,how can u say he is in special position?
    Well my third paragraph gives an indication of this.

    ZZ has the talent as he was the last WJ Champ. He is 'special' in this sense.

    But he has to forget about his past achievement as it was only good at the lower level. He has to prove himself further in the senior ranks. That's where he will be challenged in training and in competitions, but he will be closely monitored and I believe given as much opportunities to be exposed at international tournaments to hone his skills against other professionals.

    Remember, LCW was once known as the "Kampong boy" for he could only win on home turf. It is no use if ZZ can only win at home. The world stage is where he should be familiar with. Hopefully he will not be another 'flash in the pan' like yoyo.

    I am not persuaded that KLRC can provide him with the necessary resources to be a world champion. I think BAM, with its many years of experience in badminton and grooming of top professionals and past champions, will be a better bet. It is true that in the end, it depends very much on the player himself but he needs all the help to make it happen.

  17. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Well my third paragraph gives an indication of this.

    ZZ has the talent as he was the last WJ Champ. He is 'special' in this sense.

    But he has to forget about his past achievement as it was only good at the lower level. He has to prove himself further in the senior ranks. That's where he will be challenged in training and in competitions, but he will be closely monitored and I believe given as much opportunities to be exposed at international tournaments to hone his skills against other professionals.

    Remember, LCW was once known as the "Kampong boy" for he could only win on home turf. It is no use if ZZ can only win at home. The world stage is where he should be familiar with. Hopefully he will not be another 'flash in the pan' like yoyo.

    I am not persuaded that KLRC can provide him with the necessary resources to be a world champion. I think BAM, with its many years of experience in badminton and grooming of top professionals and past champions, will be a better bet. It is true that in the end, it depends very much on the player himself but he needs all the help to make it happen.
    oh?the wjc held in malaysia?
    zul beat victor twice in malaysia?

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