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Thread: LCW Is Fury Now

  1. #52
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malaysianfreak View Post
    i don't think they are lazy ...only lacks talent? i guess?
    They are neither.

    they are just not obsessed with the game enough

    Makan Bola (Tangkis) Minum Bola (Tangkis) Tidur Bola (Tangkis)

    Baru Boleh!

    (Eat, Drink & Sleep Badminton... Then only Can Do!)

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    If an outsider may respectfully pose a question: Is the lack of ambition and analytic thinking a deficiency in the coaching system, or is it exactly what the coaching system picks for candidates?

    I don't know the Malaysian system at all. But in some sports systems there is a bias for picking players who are more subservient and obediant. The coach likes that the trainee does whatever he is told and treats coaches words with reverence. But later they act surprised that these kids have no "fire in the belly". The docile perfect student has not become the type of self-confident, independent thinker who becomes World Champion. Is it possible that BAM needs to pick a few 'rebel'-types for training?

  3. #54
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dato A View Post
    HH : Dato, dont angry. U are very high standard players compared with those juniors and baskup players mah. Sure they cannot fight you.

    Dato : Correct also ah. International stage i am unbeatable except Super-Dan.

    HH : Dato very hot ah? I lagi very hot! I semi-retired. I off-peak since 2003. I non-performing but still they cannot beat me. Want to retire also cannot.
    I think both Dato and Habis are disappointed because they don't feel the 'back up / support' from the 'back up' team. It feels like there isn't any 'back-up'.

    Only got 'Back-End'

  4. #55
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fidget View Post
    If an outsider may respectfully pose a question: Is the lack of ambition and analytic thinking a deficiency in the coaching system, or is it exactly what the coaching system picks for candidates?

    I don't know the Malaysian system at all. But in some sports systems there is a bias for picking players who are more subservient and obediant. The coach likes that the trainee does whatever he is told and treats coaches words with reverence. But later they act surprised that these kids have no "fire in the belly". The docile perfect student has not become the type of self-confident, independent thinker who becomes World Champion. Is it possible that BAM needs to pick a few 'rebel'-types for training?
    It's a good point.

    Here lies the Paradox in BAM.

    The Rebel in his youth Misbun demands discipline and players to fall into line.

    The 2012 squad was initially formed in 2005ish. 20ish players came for the selection. The selector took almost 2 months to make up his mind and finally unable to remember to quality of the players that showed up decided to enlist all of them into the squad.

    after 3-4 years this Ex National Jagoh with zero results as a coach from any1 of his players, and plenty of politiking was made to become the new chief coach of BAM MS.

    And this is just at coaching/mid -lower management level

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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    It's a good point.

    Here lies the Paradox in BAM.

    The Rebel in his youth Misbun demands discipline and players to fall into line.

    The 2012 squad was initially formed in 2005ish. 20ish players came for the selection. The selector took almost 2 months to make up his mind and finally unable to remember to quality of the players that showed up decided to enlist all of them into the squad.

    after 3-4 years this Ex National Jagoh with zero results as a coach from any1 of his players, and plenty of politiking was made to become the new chief coach of BAM MS.

    And this is just at coaching/mid -lower management level
    haha,its the same thing when there is landslide/flood,our minister said it is the fate from god
    no need take responsibility and step down

  6. #57
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    Being a baddie player myself, it's true that there are players who lack the analytical skills. I won't categorized them as dumbs but they are just slow and "not-so-intelligent". Badminton is a game requires strong analytical skills and quick to make split second decision in the dying situation during a highly tense match. Having said so, I'm not too sure if all these lacking skills in our "junior" or "elite back-up" players can be overcome by determination and disciplined both on and off court...

    I am less skeptical if outsiders claim they (those players) are lacking the fire to succeed. Who doesn't want to be the next LCW? still BOLEH?

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    Talent is part of it me thinks. Seems the more talented ones chose to specialize in MD. After seeing how their seniors are doing, I wouldnt be surprised. Teo Kok Siang used to be MS. Another one of the 3 pairs too, GWS I think.

    Like ye333 said, cannot be all lazy(err, maybe not so smart player lah), then how come MD back up seem motivated, work hard. It's not just the competition in MD or lack of in MS. The muskeeters, after all their years of trying, dont think they will ever make it. Unlike their peers, juniors in MD, XD who will win something every year, at least some light in the tunnel to think that they will make it some day.

    Rebel? Like Ah Koo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    If they are lazy, then how could they do well at the junior level?

    Based on my experience in the education business, I would say if a few students won't work hard, they are simply lazy. But if a whole class won't work hard, then the blame should be on the teacher or the school. These people won't work hard because they cannot see any good reason to work hard, they cannot see any real difference that may result from working hard.
    It's a good point. They don't work harder because they hit a wall in their efforts. No further reason to put the effort in. Is it because they do not get chances? I watched Darren Liew at HK Open qualifiers this year. He's pretty good! I was distracted taking a few photos and later he lost. Definitely has the chance to get a higher ranking but not taking his chance. Contrast that with the Indian players who put a lot of effort in when on court. Although those Indian players (men's singles) don't get far, they give the impression of trying very hard and learning. Wether the men's singles players do get to the later stages of tournaments is another thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    If they are lazy, then how could they do well at the junior level?

    Based on my experience in the education business, I would say if a few students won't work hard, they are simply lazy. But if a whole class won't work hard, then the blame should be on the teacher or the school. These people won't work hard because they cannot see any good reason to work hard, they cannot see any real difference that may result from working hard.
    To excel at junior level, some talent with decent effort may bring them up there... however, to excel at the senior and International levels, one needs the "x-factor"... perhaps these batch of junior and/or back-up squad do NOT have the x-factor...

    No choice... keeping finding the hidden gem... and explore the next LCW... BOLEH

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    Talent is part of it me thinks. Seems the more talented ones chose to specialize in MD. After seeing how their seniors are doing, I wouldnt be surprised. Teo Kok Siang used to be MS. Another one of the 3 pairs too, GWS I think.

    Like ye333 said, cannot be all lazy(err, maybe not so smart player lah), then how come MD back up seem motivated, work hard. It's not just the competition in MD or lack of in MS. The muskeeters, after all their years of trying, dont think they will ever make it. Unlike their peers, juniors in MD, XD who will win something every year, at least some light in the tunnel to think that they will make it some day.

    Rebel? Like Ah Koo?
    yew hong kheng,twice ajc md runner up and 2010 wjc md winner is also a former ms player

    btw,tan chun seang started his college life now
    wonder we will see another drama in bam ms department next year

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    So you are saying they are more talented than junior players from other countries? Honestly I don't think there is much difference... Players like HH or TH excelled at the senior level with "some talent and decent effort".

    I think the problem here is not that those "back-up" players are not as good as LCW... It is clear that they are not as talented as LCW or HH, so it should be expected that they cannot reach as high.

    The real question is, why cannot they reach the level of not-so-talented players as, say, OEH, or more importantly, why do they even lose the desire to do so? There can be many reasons.

    For example, is it because LCW is too good? Thinking about it, I realize that LYB often say things like "CJ and CL are at the same level as LD" (and got laughed at by fans), but I have never heard any MAS coach say similar things to encourage their players. If the teacher put all praises to the best student and ignore others, it is almost certain other students will stop working.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    To excel at junior level, some talent with decent effort may bring them up there... however, to excel at the senior and International levels, one needs the "x-factor"... perhaps these batch of junior and/or back-up squad do NOT have the x-factor...

    No choice... keeping finding the hidden gem... and explore the next LCW... BOLEH

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    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    maybe it has something to do with mas population of players starting from the grassroots.

    there ain't many and selections for bjss/bam training was based on tournament results and not to mention other things..

    if there were no priority given to talent over physically fitter players then whoever took over them has to produce some magic..

    and if such magic can produce results, we won't be here discussing ..lol
    Last edited by pBmMalaysia; 12-22-2010 at 11:29 AM.

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    If according to LCW young players dont understand their sport well enough

    to know why they won and why they lost they must really be lost.

    LCW and WCH always had the initiative and motivation to look for answers to puzzles

    for self-improvement.

    I personally know 1 or 2 of the doubles players, and they are always talking shop and how they

    can uplift their game and move up,it is surprisingly different.
    Last edited by Bbn; 12-22-2010 at 05:27 PM.

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    Regular Member lcleing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    Besides what's mentioned by Dato', I'd like to highlight another disease in the BAM setup. A disease not limited to the players but some so called chief coach & ex Jagoh.

    this disease is the 'Junior Senior Mentality'. the players are classifying and being classifying themselves between the two categories...
    (snipe)
    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    They are neither.

    they are just not obsessed with the game enough...
    (snipe)
    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    (snipe)

    after 3-4 years this Ex National Jagoh with zero results as a coach from any1 of his players, and plenty of politiking was made to become the new chief coach of BAM MS.

    And this is just at coaching/mid -lower management level


    I think jug8man, ye333 and Fidget have done a very good job in underlying the problem of MAS MS backups. I applaud them for constructing some very sound and logical arguments in addressing the problems unlike some posters who just throw in the mocks for the sake of mocking. Basically I don't think the backups are lazy. However, like jug8man highlighted, they are probably not as hungry as the other youngsters from the other countries(i.e they tried to have a life outside of badminton while the others don't have a choice).

    I was told that getting into colleges and graduating from them are not that difficult at all in Malaysia as they have tons of public and private institutes around the country. This explain why the youngsters thought that they could take things easy and always have something to fall back to. In China, those who don't make the cut have to end up as pizza delivery boys/girls. CBA might have produced 5 out of 10 top players in the world but they might have also make another group of people redundant simultaneously, which are 100 times of the size of what they produced in the badminton world.

    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    For example, is it because LCW is too good? Thinking about it, I realize that LYB often say things like "CJ and CL are at the same level as LD" (and got laughed at by fans), but I have never heard any MAS coach say similar things to encourage their players. If the teacher put all praises to the best student and ignore others, it is almost certain other students will stop working.
    And no, I don't think LYB was joking when he said that CJ and CL are close to LD standard. They all could play the game at very high tempo and have excellent techniques. The only subtle differences among them are shot selections, mental strength and choice to construct rallies in a game(tactics), which are the fields where Lin Dan excels in. If the young players wish to be a world beater, working on fitness and techniques alone are not enough. They must also be able to analyze their game(which LCW has highlighted in the press) and improve on their tactics and constantly find ways to up their games. Sound easy on paper, but is actually the toughest part to work on(compared to fitness and tehcniques) in the reality especially you have to maintain the high motivation all the time.
    Last edited by lcleing; 12-22-2010 at 07:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    I personally know 1 or 2 of the doubles players, and they are always talking shop and how they

    can uplift their game and move up,it is surprisingly different.
    The young ones or senior ones ? You know lah, the youngsters stimes feel awkward to hang around us 'older' fans
    But yeah, I have heard the Msia young doubles players, explaining to parents & relatives, the specifics of the game, while their team mates are on court. Rojak language aside, I'll say they can commentate better than Hasbullah Awang, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    The young ones or senior ones ? You know lah, the youngsters stimes feel awkward to hang around us 'older' fans
    But yeah, I have heard the Msia young doubles players, explaining to parents & relatives, the specifics of the game, while their team mates are on court. Rojak language aside, I'll say they can commentate better than Hasbullah Awang, lol.
    Hasbullah Awang rocks! So excitable!

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    Regular Member nokh88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undeadshot View Post
    Hasbullah Awang rocks! So excitable!
    Ney... he sucks. I rather switch of the volume. What he is commenting, we can see on the screen.
    Our Bcers members can do better. One fine example is abedeng.
    Last edited by nokh88; 12-23-2010 at 04:58 AM.

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