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  1. #392
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Two statements made by Misbun or his charges confirm two things :

    1) Hendrawan is a strategist,MS's son should not start his career with the mindset of a stategist, it should be that of a great
    athlete.
    2) Scornful of game plans and analysis in high level matches- This can be deduced from the scorn when facing European
    teams in the Thomas Cup, denouncing them for analysing too much and less emphasis on playing ball presumably by
    instinct.No wonder we have back-up players who cannot analyse and cant tell why they lost or won.

    Correct me if I'wrong but I think I can guess why MS places such a high emphasis on fitness above everything else.In the 80s
    he was a rebel and never trained properly, that's why opponents could always beat him over 3 sets.I think he gradually learned
    and worked hard and by 1986 was able to up his fitness level until he could even beat Han Jian.I think it is because of this that
    he places great emphasis on superb fitness above everything else on his charges.
    That may suit some but not others, even in the China team they only go for military style training once in a while for eg.when
    preparing for the Thomas Cup.That may be old school thinking to some.

    This is what I guess ,so correct me if I am wrong those of you coaching and qualified in sports science and coaching.

    I think racquetor may have on the spot information and hit the nail right on the head. This sort of conflict is
    prevalent everywhere in this modern world, it is just a matter of seeing the other person's point of view and can be easily sorted out by people with open minds.
    I have never wanted to discuss this in detail as it might be damaging to certain people but this constraint has been removed since someone else brought it out.
    On the other hand, hopefully, it might not be true but mere speculation.
    this guy question misbun training,

    he says if misbun training is good we should have 10 lcw

    even the whole of china nobody can find another lin dan,

    here somebody wants to find not 1 but 10 lcw ?? lol

    what a joke! he thinks players are like toys make them whatever shape you want lol

  2. #393
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    "hopefully the president can really iron out whats bugging the program for misbun,

    for the coach must have confidence in the program first."

    Or the program must have confidence in the coach first.
    i don't understand your last line, please explain

  3. #394
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Just give it some deep unbiased thinking.

  4. #395
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    this guy question misbun training,

    he says if misbun training is good we should have 10 lcw

    even the whole of china nobody can find another lin dan,

    here somebody wants to find not 1 but 10 lcw ?? lol

    what a joke! he thinks players are like toys make them whatever shape you want lol
    This "Guy" is only using a figure speech when he mentions the figure "10", we are not talking rocket science here.

    Just read between the lines when someone says something, it is not as if every statement must be read verbatim to the letter.

    I think English classes in the 60s and 70s cover things like analogy,simile, allegory etc. in communications.

    i would say his statements ,at least to me,indicates he knows his badminton officials, players and coaches albeit

    he is not a rocket scientist.

  5. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    so you still think misbun still imposes those harsh training like 20-30 years ago.lol

    you haven't a slight idea what he is capable of in todays training

    let me tell you about ramdan case.

    what happens when a coach spot a talented player?

    the same case with li mao when he spotted a player from sabah.

    he was denied the charge on him and he was really pissed off,

    you can surf and find comments li mao gave on malaysian badminton

    every coaches want succession and so this talented player happens to be misbun's son,

    does it make a difference?

    I think you misunderstood me. Who denied Li Mao when he spotted a player from Sabah? None other than Rashid Sidek. For some selfish reason, he wouldn't want Li Mao to take credit for the players he trained. Like Chong Wei, do you think he is a product of only one coach. No. In fact he learned from different sifus and he is able to absorb the best from every coach he followed. If Misbun Ramdan wants to be a better player,he got to look at Chong Wei as role model. LCW had been changing coach from Morten Frost to Indra Gunawan, then Li Mao and back to Misbun. LCW is able to adapt to all the coaches mentioned and why not Misbun Ramdan?

    Of course you can argue that, not only M.Ramdan ...how about Li Yong Bo's son who has special privilege compare to other players? For me, every players deserve an equal chance to fulfill their ambition in their badminton career. Although it may be difficult to be fair to all the players but at least they have equal opportunity to themselves. In addition, we are hoping so much for LCW's succession, and if M.Ramdan is really talented, he will get there eventually no matter who is the coach. Don't you think Hendrawan wants result too?

    It is totally understandable that being in Misbun's shoe, he wants the best for his son. However, being protective will only restrict his exposure to learn and growth as a player. It is ironic that both father and son have to deal with this unavoidable "nepoticism" bias claim by public, officials and coaches within BAM. It is something sensitive and we have to consider the feelings of those less talented player but play better than M.Ramdan. Ask them why they are not in the elite squad even they can win Ramdan? The answer is "my father is not Misbun". This is a catch-22 situation.

  6. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    this guy question misbun training,

    he says if misbun training is good we should have 10 lcw

    even the whole of china nobody can find another lin dan,

    here somebody wants to find not 1 but 10 lcw ?? lol

    what a joke! he thinks players are like toys make them whatever shape you want lol


    That's RIGHT! Misbun himself said that it is TALENT that differentiate Chong Wei than others in an interview .....Thats y we cannot find any other LCW or Lin Dan in any part of the world with any kind of training system because they are simply different from others (inborn talent).

    There are many factors la dude, including the training methods impose by different coaches and it's suitability to the players (adaptive). I was trying to be neutral and what i meant is the training methods can be improve. Just like Li Mao, he is a rare coach with such a creative mind in inventing new training programs that suit the current world standard.

  7. #398
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Amthe only guy here who thinks the nub of the problem is that the (mostly) wrong/incorrect/inadequate candidates/players/trainees/newbies are coming up through the sytem, and that there is fundamentally wrong with the process itself? And that is possibly where the root of all these problems lie?

    Why blame other players or coaches if the performance or results are not justifying the resources thrown at them? You cannot turn a donkey into a horse, no matter how much you wish or try or cry or curse. The problem is not the donkey; it always was a donkey. It is the vision and the selection. And the criteria that are employed in the process.

    BTW, has anyone heard of the phrase "6-finger scratching?"

  8. #399
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Dont people know enough already about China's system?

    They select youngsters based on physical assets and TEACH them how to play badminton,

    just like training a worker how to sew a sweater.

    That's why you have cyborgs but they get quite far, in later years they start developing talents.

    Lin Dan himself already said there is no such thing as talent it starts from years of hard work on fitness and skills.

    MS probably agrees but he emphasises too heavily on the fitness part and probably less on the techniques part apparently.

    LCW already had ball playing talent as a kid.

  9. #400
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    Default Misbun: Iíll quit coaching altogether if I can no longer contribute

    Thursday January 13, 2011

    Misbun: I’ll quit coaching altogether if I can no longer contribute

    ULU KLANG: A lack of sleep showed on the face of the worn-out 51-year-old Misbun Sidek yesterday but not the fire and passion when he responded to the Badminton Association of Malaysia’s (BAM) request for him to re-consider his quit decision.

    An emotional Misbun said that he was willing to meet up with BAM president Datuk Nadzmi Mohd Salleh but hoped all that the grouses he shared in the past would not be brushed aside.

    And, in a choked voice, he said that he was ready to give up coaching altogether if what he had raised in his five-page letter to and discussion with Nadzmi falls on deaf ears again.

    Misbun said that his resignation on Dec 31 was not done for personal gain or interest.

    “I did it for the country.

    “I felt that it was the best decision after my genuine request to raise the standard of the game was turned down. I could not go on when I know that it was the best way to do it,” said Misbun.

    “Now, the BAM want me to re-consider my decision.

    “I will go and see the president. I will not make any decision until I hear what he has to say.”
    Misbun was hurt because he felt misunderstood and belittled.

    “What I asked for my programme as a coach was not for personal gain.

    “It has nothing to do with what I can get out of it.

    “I am a coach and what I do is for the players – especially in preparation for the Olympic Games,” he said.

    “I was not thinking of big plans outside when I leave BAM. In fact, I have decided not to coach anymore if I no longer can contribute and given that complete trust to prepare players like Chong Wei for the Olympic Games.

    “Enough of coaching if I am not seen as a credible coach ... I did what I did because it was about a coach’s instinct and his feeling.

    “And mostly, because I put the interests of the nation first.”

    Asked why he wanted his son Ramdan to be under his care although the structure clearly places the shuttler under the charge of back-up coach Hendrawan, Misbun paused to gather his thoughts.

    Then, he replied: “There are times when you see someone and you know that he can make it big. And sometimes, some of these youngsters fit into your big plan. It has to do with the feel of a coach. It may be difficult for some to understand.

    “It is my job to prepare the players. I want Chong Wei to win. But when things go wrong, the coach gets the blame. Does anyone see the ground work?”

    Misbun said that he appreciates Chong Wei’s loyalty.

    “I did not influence him in any way (on Chong Wei’s decision to follow his coach) but he took the trouble to understand what a coach goes through. He appreciates the little things I did for him,” said Misbun.

    Asked if he would turn up to support Chong Wei at next week’s Malaysia Open even if a decision has not been made, Misbun said: “Of course, I will be there to support him.”
    Last edited by SibugiChai; 01-12-2011 at 07:59 PM.

  10. #401
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Amthe only guy here who thinks the nub of the problem is that the (mostly) wrong/incorrect/inadequate candidates/players/trainees/newbies are coming up through the sytem, and that there is fundamentally wrong with the process itself? And that is possibly where the root of all these problems lie?

    Why blame other players or coaches if the performance or results are not justifying the resources thrown at them? You cannot turn a donkey into a horse, no matter how much you wish or try or cry or curse. The problem is not the donkey; it always was a donkey. It is the vision and the selection. And the criteria that are employed in the process.

    BTW, has anyone heard of the phrase "6-finger scratching?"
    please share with bc members, some may not heard of this 6 finger scratching

  11. #402
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    This "Guy" is only using a figure speech when he mentions the figure "10", we are not talking rocket science here.

    Just read between the lines when someone says something, it is not as if every statement must be read verbatim to the letter.

    I think English classes in the 60s and 70s cover things like analogy,simile, allegory etc. in communications.

    i would say his statements ,at least to me,indicates he knows his badminton officials, players and coaches albeit

    he is not a rocket scientist.
    ok, i had enough of your pro reply, good luck to you

  12. #403
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SibugiChai View Post
    Thursday January 13, 2011

    Misbun: I’ll quit coaching altogether if I can no longer contribute

    ULU KLANG: A lack of sleep showed on the face of the worn-out 51-year-old Misbun Sidek yesterday but not the fire and passion when he responded to the Badminton Association of Malaysia’s (BAM) request for him to re-consider his quit decision.

    An emotional Misbun said that he was willing to meet up with BAM president Datuk Nadzmi Mohd Salleh but hoped all that the grouses he shared in the past would not be brushed aside.

    And, in a choked voice, he said that he was ready to give up coaching altogether if what he had raised in his five-page letter to and discussion with Nadzmi falls on deaf ears again.

    Misbun said that his resignation on Dec 31 was not done for personal gain or interest.

    “I did it for the country.

    “I felt that it was the best decision after my genuine request to raise the standard of the game was turned down. I could not go on when I know that it was the best way to do it,” said Misbun.

    “Now, the BAM want me to re-consider my decision.

    “I will go and see the president. I will not make any decision until I hear what he has to say.”
    Misbun was hurt because he felt misunderstood and belittled.

    “What I asked for my programme as a coach was not for personal gain.

    “It has nothing to do with what I can get out of it.

    “I am a coach and what I do is for the players – especially in preparation for the Olympic Games,” he said.

    “I was not thinking of big plans outside when I leave BAM. In fact, I have decided not to coach anymore if I no longer can contribute and given that complete trust to prepare players like Chong Wei for the Olympic Games.

    “Enough of coaching if I am not seen as a credible coach ... I did what I did because it was about a coach’s instinct and his feeling.

    “And mostly, because I put the interests of the nation first.”

    Asked why he wanted his son Ramdan to be under his care although the structure clearly places the shuttler under the charge of back-up coach Hendrawan, Misbun paused to gather his thoughts.

    Then, he replied: “There are times when you see someone and you know that he can make it big. And sometimes, some of these youngsters fit into your big plan. It has to do with the feel of a coach. It may be difficult for some to understand.

    “It is my job to prepare the players. I want Chong Wei to win. But when things go wrong, the coach gets the blame. Does anyone see the ground work?”

    Misbun said that he appreciates Chong Wei’s loyalty.

    “I did not influence him in any way (on Chong Wei’s decision to follow his coach) but he took the trouble to understand what a coach goes through. He appreciates the little things I did for him,” said Misbun.

    Asked if he would turn up to support Chong Wei at next week’s Malaysia Open even if a decision has not been made, Misbun said: “Of course, I will be there to support him.”
    i knew this was coming and its not good,

    looks like the president is asking the committee to swallow the pill

    restructure the program again or work harder to find more sponsors.

    alternatively, those council members can always say, we give a try …

    then if cannot, wash hand and quit

    what a mess its going to be

  13. #404
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    I have a feeling that BAM will NOT kowtow to Misbun's change requests, and most likely will accept his resignation if he sticks to his toes. But I really wish Misbun will stay back to at least London 2012 for the sake of country... boleh?

  14. #405
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Thursday January 13 , 2011

    Nadzmi jumps to defence of coaching and training committee

    KUALA LUMPUR : Badminton Association of Malaysia ( BAM ) president Datuk Seri Nadzmi Mohd Salleh has sprung to the defence of their coaching and training committee yesterday .

    Nadzmi said that changes were imminent if Malaysian badminton were to move forward.

    National coach Misbun Sidek has been unhappy with some of the decisions made by the coaching and training committee , headed by Ng Chin Chai, in September .

    He was also hurt by some of the remarks made by the committee members .
    Nadzmi said that the majority of people had accepted the changes made by the committee , which were aimed at strenghtening their programme.

    Among the changes were dividing the training set - up into three squads – elite, elite back- up and juniors .

    Every player in each group is carefully selected based on his or her maturity and potential .

    “ The changes were made based on our Thomas Cup Finals post mortem. ( Malaysia were whipped 0 - 3 by China in the semi - finals) We do not want to make the same mistakes. Changes were made so that we do not have to depend on one or two talents in the future,” he said .

    “ We have to respect our own system. We have to see it in the bigger context . The changes are made so that we will have a wider pool of players .

    “ The majority of the coaches have agreed and no one has shown any dissension . But, like any other organisation, there may be one or two who may be unable to accept the changes .

    “ The council have endorsed the changes made by the committee and we are going to stick to it to ensure a better future. ”

  15. #406
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I have a feeling that BAM will NOT kowtow to Misbun's change requests, and most likely will accept his resignation if he sticks to his toes. But I really wish Misbun will stay back to at least London 2012 for the sake of country... boleh?
    after reading the star, it looks that way

    but i wonder why they can't compromise misbun until 2012

    if really its of national interest ???

    knowing who are the potential singles player there

  16. #407
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    Honestly, Datok Nazmi has got some good points there, and I agree with him. Let me say this to Misbun "For things to change, we must change first"... Just accept the re-org in BAM and focus on LCW for London 2012 glory... boleh tak?

  17. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    after reading the star, it looks that way

    but i wonder why they can't compromise misbun until 2012

    if really its of national interest ???

    knowing who are the potential singles player there
    Being a boss, sometimes U have to make tough decisions for the sake of your organization. Along the road, they will be some grudges so the boss must learn how to handle these "noises". IMHO, if the committees and councils + coaches came to the consensus of these changes, I think it's wise for Misbun to put national interest above everything else. London 2012 is only one year away, and at this crucial stage, the OG GOLD (from LCW) should be the top priority... BOLEH?

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