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  1. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Misbun's reply in the Star was that his instincts tell him that R has most potential (hard to measure).

    That is the problem with corporate people they are not organic and act on instinct,they like to measure things.
    I don't quite agree on the word "instinct". I look at it from the helicopter view and the ROI. Like it or not, BAM is a business entity (operating costs involved to produce "results"), so BAM can't run the biz based on "instinct". Honestly, without BAM, do U think LCW will be where he is today? Nobody should discredit Misbun, Li Mao or Frost throughout LCW's career, and the same goes to BAM.

    I've NOT seen Ramdan in actions, but has he won anything yet at the junior level? He is 18yrs old, and if I'm not mistaken, Taufik entered All England Final at the age of 18 or 19. So where is Ramdan now if he is so talented?

  2. #495
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    True, other than the culture of badminton (likened to Brazilian Football) you also have to consider the sheer size of the set up.

    Historically set-ups were not as big as they are ,that's why they were flatter,now they are massive and need to be run like a ship or machine.

    Or take it even further, operate like microsoft, just have a few administrators and out-source,

    just organise and let private coaches and players supply the bodies.

    Would you say football outfits loosely run are better than those run like a huge ship?

    Dont you think CBA is more like a machine?
    Wow, too many ideas for a guy like me!
    CBA may be run like a well oiled machine, but there is again, a good balance of individual freedom as well as responsibility.

    But I dont believe BAM needs to be run like Microsoft; just the thing they are falling into the trap of. You cannot just borrow an entire (corporate) culture and transpose it on another entity and expect it to provide results. You will get chaos. You need to go back to the basics.

    What is the primary objective?
    What are the primary and most important resources?
    What is the health of the cells? (Cells in my definition would be the cellular level of the entire badminton organisation in Malaysia: schools, villages, local clubs, colleges, universities, town halls, community centres etc)
    Do the cells feed the next level up with the most exciting potential at 2 or 3 basic age groups?
    Do the cells receive meaningful support from the next level up?
    And so on.

  3. #496
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I don't quite agree on the word "instinct". I look at it from the helicopter view and the ROI. Like it or not, BAM is a business entity (operating costs involved to produce "results"), so BAM can't run the biz based on "instinct". Honestly, without BAM, do U think LCW will be where he is today? Nobody should discredit Misbun, Li Mao or Frost throughout LCW's career, and the same goes to BAM.

    I've NOT seen Ramdan in actions, but has he won anything yet at the junior level? He is 18yrs old, and if I'm not mistaken, Taufik entered All England Final at the age of 18 or 19. So where is Ramdan now if he is so talented?
    There is no "business" if there is no talent. In badminton, at least. And either it is a "business" or it is "national interest." It cannot be both. That would be like "talking from both side of the mouth."

  4. #497
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I don't quite agree on the word "instinct". I look at it from the helicopter view and the ROI. Like it or not, BAM is a business entity (operating costs involved to produce "results"), so BAM can't run the biz based on "instinct". Honestly, without BAM, do U think LCW will be where he is today? Nobody should discredit Misbun, Li Mao or Frost throughout LCW's career, and the same goes to BAM.

    I've NOT seen Ramdan in actions, but has he won anything yet at the junior level? He is 18yrs old, and if I'm not mistaken, Taufik entered All England Final at the age of 18 or 19. So where is Ramdan now if he is so talented?
    Taufik beat 1997 AE champion Dong Jiong in the Brunei Open at age 16.

  5. #498
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    ramdan beat 2007 wc runner up at age 19
    and taufik is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr talented than ramdan
    cant compare at all

  6. #499
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Wow, too many ideas for a guy like me!
    CBA may be run like a well oiled machine, but there is again, a good balance of individual freedom as well as responsibility.

    But I dont believe BAM needs to be run like Microsoft; just the thing they are falling into the trap of. You cannot just borrow an entire (corporate) culture and transpose it on another entity and expect it to provide results. You will get chaos. You need to go back to the basics.

    What is the primary objective?
    What are the primary and most important resources?
    What is the health of the cells? (Cells in my definition would be the cellular level of the entire badminton organisation in Malaysia: schools, villages, local clubs, colleges, universities, town halls, community centres etc)
    Do the cells feed the next level up with the most exciting potential at 2 or 3 basic age groups?
    Do the cells receive meaningful support from the next level up?
    And so on.
    they dont operate in "cells' that is too futuristic for Malaysians, rather as work units in a HIERARCHY.

    Look at Msia Squash, smallish with the World champion and several world class players. All supported by parents.
    But they can never succeed in team events, no depth and breadth.
    it may be true one moves on really slow in the Msian Machine, but at least there will be depth and breadth unlike Squash.

    That's why some parents do not want their children in the BAM. The BAM could be guilty of putting old wines in new bottles (re-badging) and the TCC still operating within an old framework and not thinking out of the box.

    Given all the challenges from the external environment ,mindset,culture, size,demands on public and government what is better

    and has it been given a chance to be proven wrong?

  7. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Look at Msia Squash, smallish with the World champion and several world class players. All supported by parents.
    But they can never succeed in team events, no depth and breadth.
    which nation won the ag women team gold medal for squash?2010

  8. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    to Era on post 479:

    Those words you tried to clarify were not Nadmi's words but my personal guesses on how corporate people think.

    They probably dont want old greats like Eddy etc maybe they think they are of the old school and cannot accept new ideas and bend to the will of others and will create havoc.

    If you ask the people managing organisations all this TCC committee thinking is quite logical.Committees are run like the Parliament and they are not necessarily rubber stamps.

    But they (experts) will also tell you that operations and processes can have some flexibility, but I think sometimes it is not fair to

    condemn it just when it is starting when it hasn't been given a chance to work. The best time to make adjustments is to let it run and act on feedback. All MS has to do is just to concentrate on LCW and let the TCC have their trial run.
    That to me is the answer to this saga.

  9. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    That to me is the answer to this saga.
    Only answer 50% of the saga... the other 50% is his beloved talented son, Ramdan...

  10. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Only answer 50% of the saga... the other 50% is his beloved talented son, Ramdan...
    Give TTC a trial on Ramdan for a year, give TTC a chance. Put his energy into LCW, win OLY12 and I cannot even imagine what is in store for MS as coach...the sky the limit. One year from now, Ramdan is only 20, still got time lah.

  11. #504
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Wow, too many ideas for a guy like me!
    CBA may be run like a well oiled machine, but there is again, a good balance of individual freedom as well as responsibility.

    But I dont believe BAM needs to be run like Microsoft; just the thing they are falling into the trap of. You cannot just borrow an entire (corporate) culture and transpose it on another entity and expect it to provide results. You will get chaos. You need to go back to the basics.

    What is the primary objective?
    What are the primary and most important resources?
    What is the health of the cells? (Cells in my definition would be the cellular level of the entire badminton organisation in Malaysia: schools, villages, local clubs, colleges, universities, town halls, community centres etc)
    Do the cells feed the next level up with the most exciting potential at 2 or 3 basic age groups?
    Do the cells receive meaningful support from the next level up?
    And so on.
    Since you mentioned Cells, This I have to say :

    People who make cars in a big co.think of everything as machines.People who work in small creative outfits like film-making

    like to be nimble etc.What about people in small cos who make specialist cars to customer tastes or the big film producers?

    Then the role is reversed. in practice,machine and organismic are extremes, it is possible to have hybrids with varying % of machine and organism to make it more responsive and nimble.

    I wont go further as I have long ago thrown away all those books but read up in Wiki the work of Mintzberg or Systems Theory and you will find some info.

    In some manufacturers they work in cells, a cell is a flexible work group unlike a work unit, activities can overlap and there are

    no boundaries as in units, its like what the Dutch call total football. Sweden is one country that practises cell groups in the workplace.

  12. #505
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    which nation won the ag women team gold medal for squash?2010
    Ah yes, overlooked that.Always thinking of World Events.

    But did R really beat the 2007 WC runner-up? I missed that too.

  13. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Ah yes, overlooked that.Always thinking of World Events.

    But did R really beat the 2007 WC runner-up? I missed that too.
    hmm
    http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...07E5&player=32
    but sdk is not yet fully recover

  14. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    hmm
    http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...07E5&player=32
    but sdk is not yet fully recover
    He beat Sony then the next day Darren Liew beat Ramdan? haha... typical BOLEH player (except LCW)... haha...

    Misbun Mohmed Misbun R. beat Sony Dwi Kuncoro [4]: 21-13 10-21 21-16

    Daren Liew beat Misbun Mohmed Misbun R.: 21-14 21-14

  15. #508
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I don't quite agree on the word "instinct". I look at it from the helicopter view and the ROI. Like it or not, BAM is a business entity (operating costs involved to produce "results"), so BAM can't run the biz based on "instinct". Honestly, without BAM, do U think LCW will be where he is today? Nobody should discredit Misbun, Li Mao or Frost throughout LCW's career, and the same goes to BAM.

    I've NOT seen Ramdan in actions, but has he won anything yet at the junior level? He is 18yrs old, and if I'm not mistaken, Taufik entered All England Final at the age of 18 or 19. So where is Ramdan now if he is so talented?
    lucky you jimbo you are not a coach by profession hahaha

    you sound like one of the ctc member lol

  16. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    lucky you jimbo you are not a coach by profession hahaha

    you sound like one of the ctc member lol
    BAM escapes from going insolvency for NOT getting you involved LOL

  17. #510
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    After reading from NST article, I wonder what is wrong with Ramdan being placed and trained under coach Hendrawan? Is someone suggesting that coach Hendrawan is not good enough for Ramdan? What has Ramdan achieved in the badminton world? Did he win the World Junior MS title? He really that BOLEH?
    I don't think anyone can disagree on you for this one... I never viewed Ramdan as a good player or a player with potential, particularly after his loss to a Sri Lankan player in the Malaysia GP Gold and to Liew Daren in straight games (14-21; 14-21 in Indonesia GP QF)

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