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  1. #18
    Regular Member urameatball's Avatar
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    MSeeley,
    I think you're looking too much from the B/C players' perspective, rather than the A perspective.
    Being an A player means you've put in some hard time to not only achieve that level, but to maintain that level. And even maintaining that level requires a lot of focus and hard work because you're essentially 'racing' other A players to the top. When they're not playing badminton, they're weight training, or running, or fine tuning their tactics. If they have a coach, some coaches have STRICT orders to not waste time playing with beginners because it's time lost from real practice (and a sign of weakness or lack of focus)... hence the reason why some elite clubs bar beginners from entry.

    Imagine a runner training for the marathon is running down your street at 10mph. You want to learn to run as well as him so you tell him to slow down to 5mph and allow you to keep pace and learn his technique. That's essentially the same as a B/C player asking to play with an A player. His competitors were all training at 10mph while you forced him to train at half pace. At race time, he will be at a disadvantage compared to his competitors. All because he slowed down to be helpful to a beginner.


    Side note, there are some recreational clubs where the best players are still non-competitive players. I find those clubs are more friendly when it comes to mixing skill levels.

  2. #19
    Regular Member Thom_bad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    In recent years, many new clubs opened up in the Bay Area. with the better availability, there are also many many more players.

    i have started to noticed that players in different clubs have developed into different types. in some clubs, the players are very cliquey, meaning that they only like to play with their own clique of players and tend to reject people outside their own group.

    in some clubs, players tend to show some attitude. they would not play hard with you. just screwing around no matter if you are good or bad. as if paying more effort into the games is uncool or something.

    but in some other clubs, players are very hard working, they will play their best games with you regardless of skill level and everyone try hard.

    in some clubs, players are welcoming regardless of who comes to challenge them.

    do you find that in your club too?
    a few years ago my club was like a familly, there wasn't any relation problems, everyone friends..

    but now, things changed and the 'elite' is getting far from the recreational players, don't play with the kids, etc...

  3. #20
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    bbirdman - i agree playing with people who don't know what to do, don't know what it is to play GOOD badminton, can be very confusing! But, perhaps those people who don't understand can be introduced, by you, to websites like badminton bible, and forums such as this, so that they can learn

  4. #21
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    yeah I've seen these occasion happen in our place as well. But to join a new group not knowing their levels is quite diff to blend in if the std or level is vastly diff. But to counter this we will try to group the weaker guy with the better guy.

    Our regulars comprises of 3 diff levels as well. there is tis one guy which is in the A players region which are above us, and is a single player. But when he plays, he doesn't use much effort at all and doesn't rely on smashes to get pts, only sharp drops, push and etc..even though we can beat him but he still doesn't show much aggressive movements or real commitment. But we doesn't have problem cause we play with each other often enough to know their capability. and the weirdest thing is he only comes w 2 rackets (z-slash) and a towel, jst like a recreational player, but when playin on court is a totally diff ball game.

    Its not a problem playing among ur cliques, only when u play w strangers its quite diff, the difference in level will be very vast and its not goin to be enjoyable at all.

  5. #22
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow I would ban anyone not wishing to play with every other player

    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    In recent years, many new clubs opened up in the Bay Area. with the better availability, there are also many many more players.

    i have started to noticed that players in different clubs have developed into different types. in some clubs, the players are very cliquey, meaning that they only like to play with their own clique of players and tend to reject people outside their own group.

    in some clubs, players tend to show some attitude. they would not play hard with you. just screwing around no matter if you are good or bad. as if paying more effort into the games is uncool or something.

    but in some other clubs, players are very hard working, they will play their best games with you regardless of skill level and everyone try hard.

    in some clubs, players are welcoming regardless of who comes to challenge them.

    do you find that in your club too?
    .
    In my club, I would ban anyone not wishing to play with every other player.
    .

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    In my club, I would ban anyone not wishing to play with every other player.
    .
    Love to play at ur place one day Chris. I'll let u know when I'm flying down there

  7. #24
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Great if you can come over to play with us at CCC Badminton

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    Love to play at ur place one day Chris. I'll let u know when I'm flying down there
    .
    Great if you can come over to play with us at CCC Badminton.

    Because of our CCC Badminton site at BadmintonCentral, many Badminton visitors to Melbourne (from within Australia or overseas) do join us to enjoy Badminton.
    .

  8. #25
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    In sport management it's called "differences in club culture". The board plays an important role in this and it's diffucult to change. Other sports have the same issue.

  9. #26
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    Some clubs don't even like new members to join unless they are "good enough"
    While this can be irritating, it's also often necessary.

    Different clubs cater to different demands. It's fantastic to have clubs that accept a wide range of standards -- for example, it means I can play at a club together with my dad. On the other hand, it's important to have more selective clubs available for players who want a consistent level of opposition.

    Many clubs run graded club nights, where players of different standards play on different nights of the week. Personally, I'd find it immensely frustrating if I couldn't play at my "A" graded clubnight, and always had to mix it with the "B", "C", and "D" players (shudder quotes because gradings are highly population-relative and mean bugger-all out of context). Playing with the "A" group helps correct bad habits -- if I'm doing something stupid, I'll almost never get away with it. Playing with a mixed-standard group allows me to get sloppy.

    Exclusivity can be appropriate in other circumstances too. For example, some clubs cater exclusively to the over-50s, some of whom don't like the idea of being run ragged by fit, arrogant teenagers. I think that's reasonable -- although obviously we don't want clubs excluding black people, for example! One wonders exactly where to draw the line...

    What I really despise is the snootiness that sometimes comes with a graded club night: they can form a clique. Sometimes the minimum playing standard gets twisted into a "playing style" requirement. I think any playing standard requirement should be assessed on actual results during club games, not on "style". Otherwise, you get bruised egos passing judgement on players who, despite their alleged weaknesses, keep winning games!

  10. #27
    Regular Member urameatball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
    What I really despise is the snootiness that sometimes comes with a graded club night: they can form a clique. Sometimes the minimum playing standard gets twisted into a "playing style" requirement. I think any playing standard requirement should be assessed on actual results during club games, not on "style". Otherwise, you get bruised egos passing judgement on players who, despite their alleged weaknesses, keep winning games!
    On the other end of the spectrum, I've sometimes seen A players recruit a B player to their group if they see potential in the lower level player. The B player essentially gets tested to see if he's capable of becoming A within a certain time-frame.
    I think the whole culture and interaction between different level players is really neat.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by urameatball View Post
    On the other end of the spectrum, I've sometimes seen A players recruit a B player to their group if they see potential in the lower level player. The B player essentially gets tested to see if he's capable of becoming A within a certain time-frame.
    Yes, that's also a good approach, especially with juniors.

    It's when players are rejected based on being "too weak", despite consistently winning games, that I smell a rat.

  12. #29
    Regular Member lcleing's Avatar
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    While it is not acceptable to not wanting to play with someone who come to your club, but sometime you just can't help but refuse to play with a particular person. This is because playing with that individual is so not fun (at all)!!!

    I joined a club which have players of all sort of skill level and ability, from beginners to advanced players and everyone is cool pairing up with anyone. But, there comes a kid (who is like 17 years old) who is all cocky with an attitude. I just don't enjoy playing with and avoid every opportunity to do so. Simply because he wasn't serious when he is playing on court. He is a good player but somehow he just know how to irk you on court. Doing fancy shots like taking shuttle between his legs(when he can easily take the shuttle at a higher point). As his partner, I just really can't stand this especially we miss a few points due to him wanting to show off on court!

    And when he is playing against weaker players, you can obviously tell that he is not trying at all. He will look around as if he doesn't even want to be there and I am pretty sure that the weaker players won't feel good about it. While playing against him, you will have to endure thrash talking from him (or he will give you a cocky grin) when he gain a point from his fancy shots and I just simply don't like playing with him(or against him).

    Call me an a** if you must, but I will avoid every opportunity to play with him if I could. I am fine with others though.

  13. #30
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    OT: just my 2 cents about double pair
    me and my group are recreational players (but pretty dead serious when play the game, I think we should try to challenge a club for spar or something)
    4-7 players each time playing
    we play mainly double (And then after that few single games)

    I would try to avoid play with one of my friend simply because he doesn't understand about playing in pair!
    we played for 3 years, and he never learn!
    the problem is not the differences in strategy, but because he always try to get the birds all the time, even invading your space (single mind set)
    he doesn't understand double strategy.. (told him about it and forgot in 5 seconds)

    try to bear with it when paired up with him, because I know we will lose pretty fast

  14. #31
    Regular Member Andy05's Avatar
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    I play at two different clubs in my area, one is very strong and the other attracts a wide range of players.
    As far as different attitudes go, I made the Mens 1st team for the strong club, but only made Mens 2nd for the weaker club. The weaker club took the attitude that I hadn't been in the club as long as the players in the 1st team so I can't replace them. The strong club decided I was better than a player in their team and I was played instead of them in that match. (I am away at uni and the snow cancelled a lot of matches over my christmas holidays). I had been at the weaker club for 3~4 years and the strong club for 9ish months.

  15. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy05 View Post
    I play at two different clubs in my area, one is very strong and the other attracts a wide range of players.
    As far as different attitudes go, I made the Mens 1st team for the strong club, but only made Mens 2nd for the weaker club. The weaker club took the attitude that I hadn't been in the club as long as the players in the 1st team so I can't replace them. The strong club decided I was better than a player in their team and I was played instead of them in that match. (I am away at uni and the snow cancelled a lot of matches over my christmas holidays). I had been at the weaker club for 3~4 years and the strong club for 9ish months.
    for some clubs, "seniority" is more important than good player
    you will never grow if they dragged you down
    it is best to ignore them

  16. #33
    Regular Member Andy05's Avatar
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    Yeah, I only play there now cos the younger lot are my mates, I play league for the other club.

  17. #34
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    lcleing: it is clear that the person you describe has not respect for the other people in the club. It is SO important, when playing with people that you can beat easily, that you treat them with respect and play seriously - that doesn't mean thrash them with your best shots, but treat them as a worthy adversary - something the guy you described does not do. It is a shame that people like that ruin the enjoyment for others. I understand you not wanting to play with him.

    I would also like to share my experiences with regard to county badminton. I didn't play badminton as a junior. I have never played on the county junior circuit. I don't "know" people in the county squads, and I can't afford to pay for private coaching with a top county coach. So how do I get into this club of players? I see them play amongst themselves a lot. They are good players, some of them. I also see some of the younger ones, who are technically good but tactically awful. I want to be given a chance to play amongst them, to see if I am, or CAN BE good enough to play amongst them. The problem is, there is NO reason for them to play against me. If they win, they were expected to win. If they lose, they might lose their place in the county squad. This isn't fair! How I am supposed to play amongst them unless I have a chance to prove myself? At the same time, I played in the county restricted tournament against some of the county players, and I beat two of the current county thirds. They are young guys, and the best players would have beaten me... but I didn't even get talked to about beating them. I got the impression that the only way to make an impression amongst these players, was to beat a member of their first team. Am I the only one who thinks thats unreasonable? How am I supposed to become good enough to beat someone as good as that, without playing at a similar standard?

    Thats the end of my rant

    Matt

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