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  1. #205
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    Frankly speaking, Badminton is still an Asia sport though Denmark and other EU countries are catching up. Until one day Li Ning/YY can match what NIKE/Adidas/PUMA/etc are paying in millions n millions of dollars for each endorsement, I'm quite skeptical about the badminton players going pro. Who will fund their expenses? Again, the funding is for the whole team that consists of coaches, medical staffs, admin staff, PR/agent, accommodation, travelling, etc... Who will bear these costs?

    Professional golf, basketball, tennis, boxing, etc... are earning many times of what LCW is capable of.

  2. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Frankly speaking, Badminton is still an Asia sport though Denmark and other EU countries are catching up. Until one day Li Ning/YY can match what NIKE/Adidas/PUMA/etc are paying in millions n millions of dollars for each endorsement, I'm quite skeptical about the badminton players going pro. Who will fund their expenses? Again, the funding is for the whole team that consists of coaches, medical staffs, admin staff, PR/agent, accommodation, travelling, etc... Who will bear these costs?

    Professional golf, basketball, tennis, boxing, etc... are earning many times of what LCW is capable of.
    After PG retires, DEN can catch up no more, in fact if you read DEN thread, DEN players are shunning away from baddy to other sports. That is why, PG at 35 still DEN and Europe champ, no one wanna invest in baddy to detrone him.
    Now, which European country you have in mind that is catching up? For YY/LN to match others in paying out mega endorsement deal to baddy players to go independent pro (no more handouts), they have to sell lots of pricy rackets, wear, shoes, etc. Are CHN, INA, MAS public gonna pay those prices, forget it....knock-offs will take over. As for pro golf, basketball, tennis, boxing, the $$$ come from one main source....TV. In fact, before NBA even starts to sell one single ticket, the clubs receive enough $$$ from TV to cover their expense. Baddy, on the other hand, needs to go back to tax-payers for generous donation to survive

  3. #207
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow The $$$ come from one main source....TV

    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    ...... As for pro golf, basketball, tennis, boxing, the $$$ come from one main source....TV. In fact, before NBA even starts to sell one single ticket, the clubs receive enough $$$ from TV to cover their expense. Baddy, on the other hand, needs to go back to tax-payers for generous donation to survive
    .
    You are right that the $$$ come from one main source....TV. But don't give up; that Badminton cannot get $$$ from TV (that was yesteryears).

    Now, almost every household in China has at least one TV. We can see why the Chinese Badminton Super League (CBSL) was organised. And players are been paid by per match they participate in.

    I believe that much money come from Guangdong TV. No wonder players can earn pretty good money when they participate in this CBSL event.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-14-2011 at 09:12 AM.

  4. #208
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    We are moving away... again, quality marketing is important.

  5. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    You are right that the $$$ come from one main source....TV. But don't give up; that Badminton cannot get $$$ from TV (that was yesteryears).

    Now, almost every household in China has at least one TV. We can see why the Chinese Badminton Super League (CBSL) was organised. And players are been paid by per match they participate in.

    I believe that much money come from Guangdong TV. No wonder players can earn pretty good money when they participate in this CBSL event.
    .
    the cbsl will not on air in any tv as far as i know,for 2011

  6. #210
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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  7. #211
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow His charges/trainees are best to tell us if Misbun is a good or lowsy coach

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    .
    That post said;
    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    i just had a long phone conversation with him this afternoon and he was a really pissed off guy i can tell you.

    he really meant every word he said on press, he is willing to quit totally just to prove to everyone all the while he was doing everything for badminton and for the country.

    even with his sick wife, latifah in fact she just checked out from hospital, he always put badminton with equal priority for chong wei. now we know why chong wei is so supportive of him. simply because he appreciaite what misbun has done for him.

    i am still saddened over his case when there are people who don't respect him at all.
    his work is him and that can't be changed totally.

    what has he done to deserve this i really don't know and i am sick of those who do not know anything other than googling and reading from the press making all sorts of nonsense comments on him.

    so to all of you out there please spare a moment to think of what he has done to malaysian badminton, at least show some respect.

    i am a chinese and he is my best malay friend.
    after 5 accusations were thrown at Misbun Sidek;
    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    Based on the Forum postings there are five accusations thrown at Misbun Sidek

    1) Misbun is a lowsy coach and deserves sacking
    -> I humbly disagree

    2) Misbun is a person who practices nepotism
    -> I humbly disagree. He just has a different perspective on how things can be done.
    A man does not put his career, reputation and bread and butter on the line just to give his own son an advantage. What more under the spotlight of the public and press.

    Businessmen and DATUKs have much more of this luxury.

    3) Misbun is a person who disrespect rules and regulations
    -> I partly agree. But i believe it is due to years of head banging into the birocracy of a flawed system

    4) Misbun disrespects Hendrawan
    -> I do not know. Have they had a heart to heart chat. Camaraderie between explayers and coaches... often they understand and respect each other.

    5) Misbun is an opportunist
    -> I humbly scoff at this remark.
    I would like to ask a question here;

    Who are the people best to tell us if Misbun is a good or lowsy coach?
    1. BAM?
    2. Other coaches?
    3. Misbun's charges/trainees?
    3. Reporters from the press?
    4. Malaysian Badminton supporters/fans?
    5. Our BadmintonCentral members?

    I would think No.3 (Misbun's charges/trainees) should be the answer.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-14-2011 at 05:48 PM.

  8. #212
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    That post said;


    after 5 accusations were thrown at Misbun Sidek;

    I would like to ask a question here;

    Who are the people best to tell us if Misbun is a good or lowsy coach?
    1. BAM?
    2. Other coaches?
    3. Misbun's charges/trainees?
    3. Reporters from the press?
    4. Malaysian Badminton supporters/fans?
    5. Our BadmintonCentral members?

    I would think No.3 (Misbun's charges/trainees) should be the answer.
    .
    I would be very surprised if anyone says Misbun is a lousy coach. To my mind, the question should be "Is he a good coach or a great coach?"

    A good coach would not be entrusted with Elite players.
    A good coach would not be asked to serve at the highest level of coaching in on of the greatest badminton playing nations in the world, for such a long time.
    A good coach would not generate complete trust and loyalty from his charges.
    Therefore, to my mind the verdict is:
    Misbun is a great coach.

  9. #213
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    That post said;


    after 5 accusations were thrown at Misbun Sidek;

    I would like to ask a question here;

    Who are the people best to tell us if Misbun is a good or lowsy coach?
    1. BAM?
    2. Other coaches?
    3. Misbun's charges/trainees?
    3. Reporters from the press?
    4. Malaysian Badminton supporters/fans?
    5. Our BadmintonCentral members?

    I would think No.3 (Misbun's charges/trainees) should be the answer.
    .
    I would disagree with that. the best judges are colleagues who are knowledgeable on what needs to be done.

    This is the practice in industry called PEER EVALUATION .This means being judged by people who are equal in terms of knowledge and what needs to be done.

    From personal experience trainers /teachers can be well liked by their charges if they are say lenient and easy going and

    accomodating, but this is tantamount to spoiling them and the results will not show.Those who are strict and go by best

    practice without fear or favour may not be well liked or praised by their charges but everyone will benefit in the end.

    To be judged good by the people in your charge iunder your influence or power is more like manipulating peoples'

    minds by politicians and marketeers.

    The TTC is an eg. of peer evaluation by equals, although it may not be perfect.Look up Wiki on this concept,

    it is now a very popular method.

    This is answering your question on the 5 choices,probably there will be other choices based on the person's background.
    Last edited by Bbn; 01-14-2011 at 08:52 PM.

  10. #214
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    I would be very surprised if anyone says Misbun is a lousy coach. To my mind, the question should be "Is he a good coach or a great coach?"

    A good coach would not be entrusted with Elite players.
    A good coach would not be asked to serve at the highest level of coaching in on of the greatest badminton playing nations in the world, for such a long time.
    A good coach would not generate complete trust and loyalty from his charges.
    Therefore, to my mind the verdict is:
    Misbun is a great coach.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but before we heap praises ( he must be the most celebrated coach in the world,

    more famous than his charges), let me repeat a story which i revealed here in 2003:

    Darren Hall was England's no.1 in the 80s and won many world class tournaments.He applied to join BE to be a coach.

    The BE told him to take a coaching course first before applying, Darren argued that he had ample credentials as he had years

    of playing experience and success as a player and had made tremendous sacrifices. He was turned down.

    He gave up and decided to take up a job as a London cab driver. to his dismay to qualify as a cab-driver he had to take a lot

    of tests and earn a certificate.But he had no choice, so he took the tests, passed and is a London cab-driver today.

    BAM may not be like that but local industries and those in advanced countries are very adamant about paper qualifications

    and accreditation before they put people in positions of responsibility. Gone are the days when you could get a good job

    based on experience like a blue-collar worker.Everyone is expected to have skills as well as thinking ability. Thinking ability

    allows you to think of others ,understand others , think out of the box, and accept and develop new ideas.

    Societies nowadays emphasise on education and acquiring credentials and qualifications, you will have a hard time convincing

    people nowadays as desired are people with lifelong learning abilities. Now you can see why Msia places such a high emphasis

    on education and makes it available for everyone (like in advanced countries).

  11. #215
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Peer Evaluation...
    IMO, no one method is perfect; they all involve a certain amount of subjectivity. Even Peer Evaluation though it is a very acceptable form, is subject to jealousy, differences in background and methodology, etc etc.
    Even statistical analysis will not be able to do justice to certain unquantifiable contributions that any person has made to his position of responsibility. Then there is the knock-on effect...

    I think the bottom line I am searching for is:
    Not just Malaysia, but Badminton itself will be poorer off for the loss of Misbun.

  12. #216
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    That is why respect, openness an maturity comes into play.

    Some people learn, read or get counselling in different ways. Will the differences be big if they get those papers?

    I doubt so. It is just a foundation. It still boils down to your conviction and passion.

  13. #217
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    2) Misbun is a person who practices nepotism
    "-> I humbly disagree. He just has a different perspective on how things can be done.
    A man does not put his career, reputation and bread and butter on the line just to give his own son an advantage. What more under the spotlight of the public and press.

    Businessmen and DATUKs have much more of this luxury."

    This is the concept of Transparency and Good Corporate Governance.

    Years ago a finance minister interviewed was asked why he gave all MOF licences to himself and members of his family.

    His answer was similar to yours, and he retorted" if you had business licences to give out who would you give to.people you dont know, what's wrong with giving it to myself and my family? Of course this minister is a very richman.

    Nowadays we have scarce resources and demand that more merit be practised and there must be some form of measurement, even if it is not it should at least be subject to PEER EVALUATION.
    If not this world would even be a more corrupt culture than it is now. When faced with a dilemma on preference of own kin,
    people often lean over backwards to avoid being accused of nepotism and often dissociate themselves and allow others to make the choice.
    As to reputation, some of his spokesmen have already stated clearly that he has done a lot for the country (more than Hall for England presumably) and deserves special treatment.

    It is precisely this sort of attitude that led to the PKFTZ fiasco.

  14. #218
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Peer Evaluation...
    IMO, no one method is perfect; they all involve a certain amount of subjectivity. Even Peer Evaluation though it is a very acceptable form, is subject to jealousy, differences in background and methodology, etc etc.
    Even statistical analysis will not be able to do justice to certain unquantifiable contributions that any person has made to his position of responsibility. Then there is the knock-on effect...

    I think the bottom line I am searching for is:
    Not just Malaysia, but Badminton itself will be poorer off for the loss of Misbun.
    Nowadays many decisions are not made by just 1 person, Tenders are awarded by Tender Committees,
    Corporate decisions made by Board of Directors, Committees,committees, committees, a real pain, slow,
    full of yesmen etc. but it is a recognised form by people in power and we have to learn to live with them.

    Parliament is also a committee, to be effective, members should be voted in, not appointed.Would you prefer
    an autocracy or dictatorship or rule by Emperor?

  15. #219
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Dont you think that BE was very heartless,ungrateful and cruel to Hall?

    But that's the way things work in other countries,little room for sentiment.

    But it does bring out the best in people .

    The minor changes in BAM is ,I repeat,is :

    A response to losing to Japan in the Thomas Cup. Japan without much talent or outstanding players

    could beat Malaysia as a team. Malaysia was too dependent on 1,2 players.Now the TCC wants a bigger pool of players (in all disciplines,not just singles) and not just 1,2 world beaters. How this can be done baffles me, even if it can be done it will be dead slow. Perhaps they can wait 4 years while slowly re-building the team. They do not seem to prioritise creating another LCW in their intentions in their press statements.
    Perhaps they know something about Japan and Park Joo Bong?

  16. #220
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Nowadays many decisions are not made by just 1 person, Tenders are awarded by Tender Committees,
    Corporate decisions made by Board of Directors, Committees,committees, committees, a real pain, slow,
    full of yesmen etc. but it is a recognised form by people in power and we have to learn to live with them.

    Parliament is also a committee, to be effective, members should be voted in, not appointed.Would you prefer
    an autocracy or dictatorship or rule by Emperor?
    And you see no danger in this "one-size-fits-all" approach to decision-making powers?
    For that matter, are not committees more susceptible to manipulation and suggestion and delivering the required end-result by the actual powers that operate behind the curtain?

  17. #221
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Peer Evaluation...
    IMO, no one method is perfect; they all involve a certain amount of subjectivity. Even Peer Evaluation though it is a very acceptable form, is subject to jealousy, differences in background and methodology, etc etc.
    Even statistical analysis will not be able to do justice to certain unquantifiable contributions that any person has made to his position of responsibility. Then there is the knock-on effect...

    I think the bottom line I am searching for is:
    Not just Malaysia, but Badminton itself will be poorer off for the loss of Misbun.
    There must be an acceptable way of making decisions and abiding by the rules.

    What will happen if people make their own rules as in KL, parking their cars where they like, double parking,
    breaking speed limits,jumping red lights, tail-gating etc without consideration for others , then the place will not be a safe place to live.

    Rules need to be enforced , it is better than none, rules of course can always be improved if the result is a good intention and adds value.This is the concept of COMPLIANCE in the workplace and society.

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