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  1. #409
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I shall leave this debate.

    Why? Because I cannot understand how Science can replace the Art of;

    * Playing 'good' Badminton
    * Playing 'good' music
    * Cooking 'good' food
    * Conducting/chairing a 'good' meeting
    * etc, etc, ......

    .
    Alright Chris, i am in no position to argue with you,since just about everyone here is some form of coach or other.
    I am not talking about sports science just scientific thinking and approach.
    Remember when Li Mao first took over the training of WMC he joked about her having the brain of a 7 year old and the legs of a 70 year old? or how JS commented how the back-ups are weak in their legs? Or even MS criticism of HH being weak in his leg strength ?
    Taufik Hidayat is no scholar but they dont call him a genius for nothing, he has all the right muscles in the right places,manages his stamina to outplay even fitter players and can use mind games to upset Lcw to beat him in the QF of world championships.
    if these attributes can be analysed instead of just dismissing it as TH 's secrets, then
    they would sure be useful. I am sure Xia XZ or LD have studied these and learned from them.
    of course all these are about top level competitions.The world keeps changing and people have to compete to find better ways to do things and sometimes people have to think out of the box to achieve more.

    Just as a matter of interest playing music is not all about art.If you read music you will find it has some scientific basis, otherwise without certain rules it will turn out to be chaotic noise.
    Anyway let's close this discussion since it doesn't appear to help anyone.
    Last edited by Bbn; 02-19-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  2. #410
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Wink

    I think badminton, as with other sports, is both an art and a science.

    Maybe long time ago, without the aid of science, sports just muddle through to produce some form of art thought to be the optimum, but as years went by, records after records were broken. And the majority of the record breakers was from developed countries, principally the US and the ex-Soviet Union, which have access to sports science.

    Otherwise the no.1 badminton nation in the world, China, would not want to waste time doing research on sports science. Nearer home, Australia is noted to be a great fan of sports science and I think they must have used it extensively on their world renowned swimmers.

    The mere execution of a badminton stroke is not just an art alone. Provided he has one at his disposal, if the player wants to do it better, he could engage the expertise of a biomechanic sports scientist to analyse his stroke and to show him how he could best maximise his natural resources in body and limbs to hit the shuttle at which point in the process.

    BAM is in an enviable position that the government is practically allocating all its trained sports scientists at its disposal. The reason is quite simple. WR#1 LCW is about to create history for MAS as he is the one best positioned to present the first Olympic gold medal to MAS. It would have been much easier for LCW if LD is not around to compete in London Olympics 2012.

    Seriously if MS continues with his training programme similar to what has been meted out to LCW before, his chance of succeeding is dismal. You can be sure that CHN will do all it can to ensure LD or another CHN player will wear the Olympic crown. And CHN has much more resources to achieve this than MS.

    So if I were MS, I would gladly embrace all the sports scientists that BAM has to offer and think out the best strategy to prepare LCW for the CHN wave. CHN may now want to do its utmost to get 3 players qualified for London. MAS, at best could muster a max of two. INA will be MAS' nearest competitor so will be DEN.

    It will do well for MS to be a better tactician!
    Last edited by Loh; 02-19-2011 at 08:38 PM.

  3. #411
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up BAM is required to be more transparent and accountable

    Quote Originally Posted by george@chongwei View Post
    What's the latest for this guy now?
    .
    I guess no one knows what BAM is doing. Why? Because BAM is not informing us what they are doing. Even the Malaysian National Sports Institute (ISN) don't know many things; like Lee Chong Wei is to take part in the Superliga Badminton in Indonesia next week.

    Article: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...-sudden-action

    Director General, Datuk Dr Ramlan Abdul Aziz said the decision to follow the tournament at will without notifying the monitor it closely to the development of athletes in terms of both physical health is not appropriate action.

    "I hope that Mon did appreciated. We did not do to get the names, but in the national interest that aims to bring home the gold medal 2012 Olympic Games, "said Ramlan was found in his office yesterday.

    Coaching and Training Committee (C & T) Badminton Association of Malaysia (BAM) previously agreed to allow elite athletes participating in 14 major championships and three league in China, Indonesia does not include the league that suddenly appeared.

    Ramlan not blame the athletes instead merely requires the association is more transparent and accountable to inform it about the development of athletes, both in terms of health or the movement of athletes who participate in any tournament.

    "No one let me know Chong Wei will be in Indonesia, except to know through the press. Last Kenny Goh (General Manager BAM) also met with me but do not tell anything, and I was hoping to hear his statement, "said presiding Ramlan Services subcommittee of Sports Medicine and Sports Science program at the London Road To Bukit Jalil.
    .

  4. #412
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    God.. i wish i knew what info that article is trying to convey. Who what when is 'Mon'?

  5. #413
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajrul View Post
    God.. i wish i knew what info that article is trying to convey. Who what when is 'Mon'?
    I too have the same problem trying to figure out what it is all about! Hahaha...

  6. #414
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajrul View Post
    God.. i wish i knew what info that article is trying to convey. Who what when is 'Mon'?
    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    I too have the same problem trying to figure out what it is all about! Hahaha...
    Ya, very difficult to catch his ball..

    Could be translated from Malay language that's why a lot of broken English around

    I think he is trying to get the message across to bam committee

    that Isn is very much involved in the preparation for London 2012

  7. #415
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow BAM to be more transparent and accountable

    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    Could be translated from Malay language that's why a lot of broken English around
    .
    I am sure it was translated from Malay to English.

    But the main thing to note is that BAM did not inform Datuk Dr Ramlan Abdul Aziz, the Director General of Malaysian National Sports Institute (ISN), what is going on at BAM. So, how would we BCers know, if Ramlan himself doesn't know?

    Just read the last 2 paragraphs of the article again (here some straightening up has been made);

    Ramlan not blame the athletes but instead merely requires the association to be more transparent and accountable to inform about the development of athletes, both in terms of health or the movement of athletes who participate in any tournament.

    "No one let me know Chong Wei will be in Indonesia, except to know through the press. Last time Kenny Goh (General Manager BAM) met with me, he did not tell me anything" said Ramlan.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 02-23-2011 at 04:30 PM.

  8. #416
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    After 25 pages, still no answer.

    Go or not go?

  9. #417
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Under scrutiny BAM to implement KPI for coaches and shuttlers

    By LIM TEIK HUAT

    KUALA LUMPUR: It has been practised in the private sector for sometime and the Prime Minister has implemented it for all Cabinet ministers.

    Now the national badminton set-up will be evaluated by the Key Performance Indicator (KPI).

    The Badminton Association of Malaysia (BAM) secretary Ng Chin Chai said the coaching and training committee have approved the move to measure the performances of the players and coaches using the KPI.

    “We are coming out with a more objective way of evaluating their progress.

    “It is not just for the elite players but the back-up players will also have their own KPI.

    “The back-up players do not necessarily have to win the smaller tournaments but they must fulfill certain criteria, for example, maybe to reach at least two quarter-finals out of the five they compete in.

    “At the end of the year, every player under a particular coach must get certain percentages. The coaches will evaluate their players.

    “We, in turn, will use that to measure the performance of the coaches. The coaches will inform the players the tournaments they are going to for the entire year from now.”

    Previously, assessment was done based on the reports submitted by the coaches.

    The elite shuttlers will play in 14 tournaments this year while the back-up shuttlers can look forward to participation in eight to 12 events.

    However, Chin Chai said players can be stopped from going to tournaments if they suffered a drop in form or do not show commitment in training.

    The coaching and training committee also decided that there is no need to promote any of the back-up players to the elite squad to fill the vacancy left by Hafiz Hashim as the new structure allows the coaches a longer period to see results.

    Reigning Malaysia Games (Sukma) champion Mohd Arif Latif, who reached the recent National Circuit Grand Prix Finals in Terengganu, was in the running to claim the spot after high performance director Datuk James Selvaraj had proposed the matter but it was felt that it was too early to make changes to the set-up.

    The elite and back-up players are currently getting ready for three back-to-back tournaments in Europe – the German Open next week followed by the All-England Open from March 8-13. Only the back-up players will be involved in the Swiss Open from March 15-20.

    1995-2011 Star Publications (Malaysia) Bhd (Co No 10894-D)

  10. #418
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Under scrutiny BAM to implement KPI for coaches and shuttlers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Under scrutiny BAM to implement KPI for coaches and shuttlers

    By LIM TEIK HUAT

    (Parts of article)......

    KUALA LUMPUR: It has been practised in the private sector for sometime and the Prime Minister has implemented it for all Cabinet ministers.

    Now the national badminton set-up will be evaluated by the Key Performance Indicator (KPI).

    The Badminton Association of Malaysia (BAM) secretary Ng Chin Chai said the coaching and training committee have approved the move to measure the performances of the players and coaches using the KPI.

    “We are coming out with a more objective way of evaluating their progress.

    “It is not just for the elite players but the back-up players will also have their own KPI.

    “The back-up players do not necessarily have to win the smaller tournaments but they must fulfill certain criteria, for example, maybe to reach at least two quarter-finals out of the five they compete in.

    “At the end of the year, every player under a particular coach must get certain percentages. The coaches will evaluate their players.

    We, in turn, will use that to measure the performance of the coaches. The coaches will inform the players the tournaments they are going to for the entire year from now.”

    The elite shuttlers will play in 14 tournaments this year while the back-up shuttlers can look forward to participation in eight to 12 events.

    However, Chin Chai said players can be stopped from going to tournaments if they suffered a drop in form or do not show commitment in training.

    The elite and back-up players are currently getting ready for three back-to-back tournaments in Europe – the German Open next week followed by the All-England Open from March 8-13. Only the back-up players will be involved in the Swiss Open from March 15-20.

    1995-2011 Star Publications (Malaysia) Bhd (Co No 10894-D)
    .
    For back-up players to reach at least two quarter-finals out of the five they compete in; I think this is too ambitious (knowing their current standards, IMHO). Probably, many would fail.

    Similarly, for CTC to use the KPI to measure the performance of the coaches (based on the results of the back-up players), I believe many coaches would fail too.

    For the elite shuttlers to play in 14 tournaments this year (2011), I think it's too many. Too hectic a schedule. Expecting injuries would set in.

    When Chin Chai said that players can be stopped from going to tournaments if they suffered a drop in form or do not show commitment in training, I guess many players wouldl be left out from many tournaments.

    Overall, I guess that many players (other than LCW) won't get a chance to play in the many tournaments as planned. Why? Because currently, many players are finding it difficult to reach the quarter-finals (therefore, they would fail in their KPI results).

    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 02-25-2011 at 09:23 AM.

  11. #419
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    So, what is the KPI for the CTC?

  12. #420
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    For back-up players to reach at least two quarter-finals out of the five they compete in; I think this is too ambitious (knowing their current standards, IMHO). Probably, many would fail.

    Similarly, for CTC to use the KPI to measure the performance of the coaches (based on the results of the back-up players), I believe many coaches would fail too.

    For the elite shuttlers to play in 14 tournaments this year (2011), I think it's too many. Too hectic a schedule. Expecting injuries would set in.

    When Chin Chai said that players can be stopped from going to tournaments if they suffered a drop in form or do not show commitment in training, I guess many players wouldl be left out from many tournaments.

    Overall, I guess that many players (other than LCW) won't get a chance to play in the many tournaments as planned. Why? Because currently, many players are finding it difficult to reach the quarter-finals (therefore, they would fail in their KPI results).

    .
    This sound scary, Chris

    Quote Originally Posted by extremenanopowe View Post
    So, what is the KPI for the CTC?
    If what Chris said becomes real,

    in no time there weren't be any players or coaches for kpi,

    Just add an '0' after 'k'

  13. #421
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    It may sound impossible but quarter-finals means the last 16 players. Malaysia is ranked in the top 4 or 5 countries in badminton. If you divide the 16 places in the quarter-finals by the top 4 countries, Malaysia's share should be about 4 players making it through. This is every time, so twice in every 5 tournaments is easy lah

  14. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    It may sound impossible but quarter-finals means the last 16 players. Malaysia is ranked in the top 4 or 5 countries in badminton. If you divide the 16 places in the quarter-finals by the top 4 countries, Malaysia's share should be about 4 players making it through. This is every time, so twice in every 5 tournaments is easy lah
    Sorry, the numbers should be 8 players with Malaysia's share 2.

  15. #423
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    kpi for players?.. i donno man... i dont think this is going to work... kpi for GMs .. for Ministers..for Lecturers in University.. yes..for sports players...crazy....i predict epic failure.

  16. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by extremenanopowe View Post
    So, what is the KPI for the CTC?
    Best question to date!

    One possible answer:

    If one more coach resigns, it means CTC has failed and should fold up.

  17. #425
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Quarter-Final = Last Eight

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Sorry, the numbers should be 8 players with Malaysia's share 2.
    .
    That's correct. Quarter-Final = Last Eight.

    Other than LCW and KKK/TBH, no other MAS players are often reaching the Quarter-Finals.
    .

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