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  1. #528
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    missbun not interested let him go la... he served the country well adi... Those top guns trying to save faces by being able to reverse his decision!

  2. #529
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow BAM didn't know what they've got until Misbun is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by SibugiChai View Post
    missbun not interested let him go la... he served the country well adi... Those top guns trying to save faces by being able to reverse his decision!
    .
    I think what you said is true: Those top guns trying to save faces by being able to reverse his decision!

    They didn't show much appreciation when Misbun was doing a good job for BAM. They didn't know what they've got until he is gone.

    I wonder if LCW is the only one who appreciates Misbun's work.
    .

  3. #530
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I think what you said is true: Those top guns trying to save faces by being able to reverse his decision!

    They didn't show much appreciation when Misbun was doing a good job for BAM. They didn't know what they've got until he is gone.

    I wonder if LCW is the only one who appreciates Misbun's work.
    .
    No, a lot here appreciate what he has done,

    it's just that no one outside bam can do anything

    The whole country's future in badminton lies in bam's hand,

    Hope they do the right thing as nothing much we can do except bragging

    But wait, there is one thing we can see ....

    who step down or got kicked out first

    when there is no result lol

  4. #531
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    No, a lot here appreciate what he has done,

    it's just that no one outside bam can do anything

    The whole country's future in badminton lies in bam's hand,

    Hope they do the right thing as nothing much we can do except bragging

    But wait, there is one thing we can see ....

    who step down or got kicked out first

    when there is no result lol
    .
    I was thinking just the other day - It's only about 16 months before LCW retires (assuming that he retires after the 2012 Olympic Games). After LCW leaves, Malaysia's future in Badminton could be dull again.
    .

  5. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I was thinking just the other day - It's only about 16 months before LCW retires (assuming that he retires after the 2012 Olympic Games). After LCW leaves, Malaysia's future in Badminton could be dull again.
    .
    I say Datuk will play AE13 and WC13 before he quits

  6. #533
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    I say Datuk will play AE13 and WC13 before he quits
    .
    This is what BAM is hoping for too.
    .

  7. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    .........

    Even worse if BAM should hire a new coach to train LCW, will the new coach be prepared to submit to MS in the way that TSB is now doing?

    Can MS really play an effective role by resigning if a new coach is engaged? Can BAM stop MS from what he is doing right now?

    What implications will all these have on LCW?
    This part no need to consider uncle. Ng Chin Chai already said BAM will not hire additional coaches for MS dept or even replacement for WTM, lack of budget. Either Misbun come back or continue with Tey SB. Tey SB always full of respect for Misbun, in all his public statements. Even this AE, he attributed it to teamwork between Rashid, himself & Misbun.

    As said earlier BAM caught in the middle due to Sports Minister's intervention.

  8. #535
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    Well, the next deadline is not far now... one week to go...

  9. #536
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    No need to wait for a week

    the outcome is already predicted by the thread starter, Chris

  10. #537
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    Default Still Rooting for Misbun

    After having written quite a lengthy piece on this subject early on, I thought I’d be quiet and let the respective parties involved work this out. However, perhaps for selfish motives (because I really want to see Misbun return to coach the Datuk) and also because I am sick and tired of the way things are run at BAM, I have decided to enter the fray again, even if I end up repeating myself.

    It has been very quiet from both fronts (i.e. MS and BAM) for a long time now. We have seen conflicting reports from the media about the extent to which LCW wishes MS to return. I am also seeing some fans and news reports questioning whether it is really necessary for MS to return since LCW managed to win the AE title without MS’s presence. Some even say it would be bad for LCW if MS returns to coach him.

    Before I tell you my thoughts, I want to make it clear that I mean no disrespect to Tey Siu Bock and/or Rashid Sidek and I do not belittle their coaching skills and acumen. I have no knowledge about their coaching prowess and I wish them the best of luck in what they do. I do understand that some BCers like TSB and some dislike RS. In fact, someone on this board seems to dislike RS with a passion. Anyway, if TSB is as competent as what I have read about him, I am sure his day to shine in the spotlight will come. But for now, my vote is to bring MS back.

    Back to MS and LCW. I think it is absolutely naive for anyone to think that LCW can do without MS since he was able to beat LD at the AE without MS being there. To the contrary, I think it is because LCW beat LD at the AE that LCW needs his mentor back. I have been following LCW’s progress as a player since at least the 2005 World Championships at Anaheim, California. I know he has gone through several coaches including Li Mao. Li Mao’s contribution to the development of LCW as a player cannot be denied. Most likely, it was BAM’s policies and (mis)management that caused Li Mao to leave. And, it may very well now cause MS to leave. (I know he has tendered his resignation, but early April is when things will supposedly come to a head.)

    Now, why do I say that it is important for MS to return to guide LCW? Over the past few years under MS, I have observed how LCW was slowly and steadily catching up to LD. Yes, LD would still defeat the Datuk more often than the Datuk defeating LD, but LCW was getting there. So MS was doing something right. The more recent win-loss ratio was better than in the early years of their heralded rivalry. Since the 2008 Olympic Games, LD greatly reduced his participation in tournaments, thus depriving LCW of opportunities to play his arch rival. While there may have been other valid reasons for LD to reduce his participation in tournaments, I always believed that one reason was to minimize the opportunities for LCW to play him. Not because LD was afraid of meeting LCW in a contest, but because it was a smart tactical move. After all, LD had won almost every title there was to win in badminton, and had nothing more to prove.

    Simply put, if you allow a lesser player to play you often, it is advantageous to the lesser player. We all know that if we keep playing regularly with a less skillful player, the less skillful player will improve and we remain stagnant or worse yet, even deteriorate, unless we ourselves also play regularly with more skillful players. But if you’re LD, who is more skillful than you?

    Additionally, LD is a leftie. Why give LCW the opportunity to play LD and gain experience not just playing LD, but a leftie! Hence, the more times LD plays LCW, it is LCW who stands to gain more from the experiences. I strongly believe that it was LD’s strategy back then to cut down his participation in tournaments to minimize the opportunities for LCW to play him. That was not unsporting or crooked strategy. I think it was smart strategy. But BWF changed the rules for the Super Series and Premier Super Series and LD has to play in more tournaments now, thus increasing the opportunities for LCW to play him. And MS should be there to help LCW make the most of these very few and precious opportunities leading up to the next Olympic Games.

    How LCW will do the next few times he may meet LD prior to the 2012 Olympics has yet to be seen, but the momentum is in LCW’s favor now. The less distractions the better. The recent AE win and the final appearance in the Korean Open has boosted LCW’s confidence and he has seen a chink in LD’s armor. That, I think, was also a reason why LD did not play LCW in the Chinese Badminton League match. LCW was in outstanding form and a second straight loss to LCW within weeks would have been potentially devastating to LD’s confidence and greatly alarming to the Chinese camp. More importantly, it would have further boosted LCW’s confidence into the stratosphere. And confidence can often be more deadly than skills when the players are almost evenly matched. Think about it. The CBL is a big thing in China and it seems odd that the commercial shoots would have been scheduled to clash with the CBL matches. Surely the sponsors know LD is a badminton player and he has commitments to the CBL! I suspect it was made to clash after LCW won the AE. But even if I am right, that was not dirty strategy or anything like that from LD’s camp. It was a smart move on their part. And I think we need MS, who knows LCW well, to strategize and protect LCW in a similar manner that the Chinese camp is protecting LD.

    Over the years, I have seen consistent improvement in LCW’s play. Several years back, whenever I watched him play LD, I would get very nervous with some of his shots, and especially so at net play. Now, I am no longer nervous seeing him play because he has shown that he has what it takes to take LD on. When I see him at the net now, I am so impressed and no longer worry about him getting his behind kicked at the net.

    There is not that much separating the two now. And this, in my opinion, is another important reason why MS is needed to continue to guide LCW in the country’s quest for Olympic gold and glory. It is because LCW beat LD at the recent AE that MS is needed to continue to coach LCW. Some say that LCW did well without MS at the AE so MS is not needed anymore. That, I believe is naive. It is because MS did such a good job with LCW that LCW was able to perform so well at the MO, KO and AE even though MS was supposedly not his coach and not present at the KO and AE.

    To those who say MS is not needed because LCW won in the absence of MS, I ask you- What did you expect? Did you expect LCW to crumble and do poorly at these tournaments because MS was not present? Did LCW have to fare poorly at these tournaments for MS to be asked to return? That is absurd, and that is very insulting to LCW and MS if one expected that. A good coach molds his player into an independent player. A good coach is not a crutch. A player who crumbles and fails miserably in the absence of his or her coach is not a very good player and the coach is not doing a good job. In such a situation, the coach is like a crutch. Take the crutch away and the player falls. A good coach directs, instructs, trains, strategizes with and ultimately helps build a player who will be able to be independent and perform at the highest level even in the absence of the coach. A coach who is like a crutch does not have the player’s best interests at heart because such a coach is either just a plain lousy coach or worse yet, a selfish coach who deliberately makes the player dependent on the coach so that the coach’s continued and long-term employment is assured.

    A good coach is more than just training and having the player do drills, etc. A good coach will, among other things, also help the player analyze potential opponents’ styles of play and plan strategy to neutralize the opponents’ strengths and develop new skills or improve current skills to meet any challenge that may be thrown at the player. A good coach will also help the player build confidence and motivate the player.

    Do you think LD and LD’s camp is going to just sit on their behinds and let LCW cruise past LD? It is obvious that they are back to the drawing board to strategize about how they are going to come up with a new and improved LD and other ways to stop LCW from depriving China of the Olympic’s top prize in badminton. MS and LCW have seen the chink in LD’s armor and LD and his coaches will be looking for the chink in LCW’s armor too. Clearly China is giving top priority to helping LD maintain his dominance over LCW. That is why MS is needed. He can help LCW try to get one step ahead and if not, at least match LD at each step. He can help LCW anticipate what LD and LD’s camp will come up with. He can continue to help the Datuk improve further, acquire new skills, vary his game, better read the opponent’s game, improve on making on-the-spot adjustments depending on the opponent’s strategy, etc. It has been a cat-and-mouse game between LD and LCW for a few years and the game has gotten much tighter and the stakes are high. MS can also help LCW’s game cope with the chasing pack (such as Chen Long and other Chinese players, Nguyen Tien Minh, Kenichi Tago, etc.) who are out to get him because when you’re at the top, everyone is gunning for you. Now is not the time to disrupt the MS-LCW relationship.

    I do not know what it is that MS writes in his little notepad during matches. But whatever it is, I am quite sure it is not what he wants for dinner after the match from LCW, but something that helps him help LCW improve his game. Maybe he sees the opponent try something new and he jots it down so he remembers to help LCW counter the new tactic from the opponent, or maybe he saw LCW do something he did not like and made a note of it so he can address it with his protégé later, etc. Whatever it is, I do not see any other coach on the court approach coaching in such a cerebral and organized manner. LD is reputed to be the greatest player the game has ever seen. Over the past few years, MS has guided LCW, slowly but surely, to bring the good fight to LD and prevail over the greatest player the game has ever seen! Where it goes from here is yet to be seen, but I strongly believe that MS has an unfinished job and we should let him finish it. Win or lose at 2012 OG, let the man do his job his way. LCW has also expressed his desire to have MS back. Are you listening, BAM?

    A player who works so hard and is so dedicated to his sport and a coach who also works so hard and is so dedicated to his protégé and sport is a combination that is hard to come by. What’s more, this combination has proven it can produce good results. In fact, if I am not mistaken, LCW has beaten LD more than any other player in the world. It would be a big mistake and a darn shame if this combination is broken up.

    And what’s this about having the coaches write reports to be submitted to BAM’s coaching and training committee, etc.? It seems that BAM has the coaches doing other things that take the coaches’ valuable time away from doing what they do best. If I were MS, I would be resistant to having to write reports, etc. I deem it condescending and also insulting. If you see it fit to hire me as a coach, then let me do what I do best and leave me alone. Don’t have me writing reports on what my training plans, methods and targets are for my player(s), etc. Maybe I don’t want my thoughts to be reduced to writing and made available to others. It is also as if what I plan to do has to be submitted to the CTC for their blessing and approval. If I were a world-class coach, I do not need the CTC’s blessing and approval for my methods. Especially a CTC comprising persons with questionable credentials in the sport. Moreover, a coach may not necessarily be a good writer so making a coach write reports not only takes time away from the coach’s other duties, but also adds stress to the coach’s life. MS, as LCW’s coach was relied upon to guide the Datuk to Malaysia’s first gold medal in the OG. That’s pressure. MS has a sick wife to care for. That’s stress. And BAM wants him and other coaches to write mickey-mouse reports? Get the man back, leave him alone and let him do his job. Have the non-coaching CTC members write reports on why they are qualified to serve on the committee, and how they and/or their ideas can contribute to the advancement of badminton in Malaysia.

    Finally, if MS wants to coach his son, what’s so bad about that? Give the man what he wants. So what if others say it is favoritism, special treatment, etc. Who said life was fair. When you’re that good at what you do, you can call the shots.

    MS, good luck. I hope you get what you want at BAM and return. If you do not return to BAM, I hope you will still be involved with badminton as perhaps an independent coach. And it would really make my day if LCW dumps BAM and trains under you independently.


    P.S.
    I know this is the wrong thread, but please indulge me - I think KKK/TBH had the AE doubles title won but then they gave it back because they celebrated too early and lost concentration and hence their momentum. In a word, they lacked maturity. On more than one occasion, I saw our players celebrate after winning a rally as if they won the match already. This kind of behavior not only makes you lose concentration, but it also serves to taunt your opponents and further motivates them. In the end, the other side had the last laugh. It ain’t over ‘til the fat lady sings. I hope they learn from this and good luck to them in the future.

  11. #538
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    I have said this before and I will say it again. The top management applying 'The Apprentice'-like method of governing the sports like Mr Donald Trump is not going to work. This is a sport, not a corporate business, at least don't ask the coaches to write Mickey Mouse reports. Time and again I have seen Malaysia hired top coaches like Li Mao, Yang Yang, Fang Kai Xiang only to have them leave frustrated because of destructive intervention from someone at the top who thinks they know what they are doing or think it's for the sport's improvement but actually is vice versa. Skills and experience come with time and dedication, not simply by hiring world class coaches and then expect them to be World No 1 overnight. The fine line of balancing between corporate responsibilities and sport's credibility is also another skill to be mastered to reach this attain this equilibrium.

    I wonder if the NSC or BAM ever take the time to come on board these forums and hear what the ppl are saying and not to be so full of themselves all the time.
    Last edited by Pakito; 03-28-2011 at 01:37 AM.

  12. #539
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow BAM not to be so full of themselves all the time

    .
    Well said, mafan and Pakito.

    Seriously, I cannot see the benefits to LCW nor to Misbun, when BAM requested Misbun to write reports.

    IMHO, BAM have concentrated too much in the own management. I just cannot see what advantages the reports can have for both LCW and Misbun.
    .

  13. #540
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Question I wonder if CHN coaches are required to write reports

    .
    I was just thinking about our current strongest Badminton Association in the world (namely CBA). I wonder if CHN coaches are required to write reports.
    .

  14. #541
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    Default Listen to a Legend

    Hello Pakito, Chris and all BCers, I am still hoping that BAM will see the light, be big enough to eat humble pie and give Misbun Sidek what he wants so he will be back to coach our Datuk LCW. Giving MS what he wants is really nothing extraordinary and I think that should be how things are supposed to be anyway, i.e. allow a coach to do his job without interference from management.

    Chris, I don’t know if the Chinese coaches are required to write reports, but it makes no difference to my position on things. I think I can safely say the same for you and Pakito too. The way I see things, even if the Chinese coaches are required to write reports, the immense success of the Chinese badminton program is not because of report-writing coaches. It is because of other things they do or do not do which I will not get into.

    Anyway, after I wrote my previous post, I came across the thread about Khoo Kay Kim’s comments about LCW’s supposed inconsistency. He talked about Eddy Choong and Wong Peng Soon so I looked up these two badminton legends to learn more about them. I had heard about them and had some idea about their badminton exploits but the thread piqued my interest and I am glad I researched them.

    I came across a nine and a half minute video clip dated around March 2010 where the then 80-year old EC gave his frank opinion about things concerning Malaysian badminton. I apologize if you are all familiar with this video and if it was discussed on BC back then. This is the first time I am seeing it. I am quite technologically unsavvy so I do not know how to put the link to that video here so that you guys can just click on it and view it. It is very easy to find. Just google “Eddy Choong” and in the results, look for the “Obnoxious 5Xmom>>Eddy Choong-Badminton Legend”. The article includes 2 video clips, a blurry one of EC playing in the 1950s and the one I am referring to where he speaks his mind about Malaysian badminton. You can also find it on youtube. Just search "Eddy Choong" in youtube.

    He says some interesting things. He blames the administration for interfering with coaches, in fact bullying coaches. What EC is saying about interference from the administration is also what many of us “commoners” on this thread are saying about BAM’s management. He says that the administration and the coaches should be separate. Administration knows nothing about coaching and should leave coaches alone to coach. If BAM will not listen to us commoners, you would think they would listen to a legend like EC. But no, they don’t. As Pakito says, BAM has to stop being so full of themselves.

    EC goes on to say that every time the Thomas Cup rolls around, those involved in badminton would talk to him and seek guidance and reporters would interview him. However, his opinion and ideas are essentially disregarded and the reporters who interview him do not print his frank words. It appears that the reporters are afraid of offending the big shots who usually make up management at BAM or the reporters’ bosses censor the reporters’ articles to edit out EC’s strong and firm views. I may have taken some liberties trying to paraphrase EC’s words but I think I got the general idea right.

    EC also says some interesting things about MS too. You all have to see the clip to hear a legend describe the state of Malaysian badminton so I won’t tell you what else he says in the clip. It is definitely worth a view. More importantly, I think those folks with inflated egos at BAM should look at it. I suspect though, that they have or may have heard it directly from EC himself, but chose to ignore EC’s words because they think they know better. For example, I think the guy in the coaching and training committee who said his experience in badminton was playing in a second tier state badminton competition thinks he knows better than a multiple All England champion.

    Yet, BAM has the gall to tell MS to do what is best for the country when it is quite clear that BAM is the entity not doing the best for the country. Just because of their false pride.

  15. #542
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    The other view is that there are many in the badminton fraternity who believe that

    Eddy's views or those of prof KKK belong to a past era.

    There are no figures to substantiate this,but everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions.

  16. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I was just thinking about our current strongest Badminton Association in the world (namely CBA). I wonder if CHN coaches are required to write reports.
    .
    It was Eddy Choong himself who quoted the saying" A player must know why he won or lost". It is not so much of writing a report, rather the ability to do an analysis and post mortem and know what one is doing wrong or right to facilitate continuous improvement.
    If you cannot write the report at least it can be done orally.

  17. #544
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    "He says some interesting things. He blames the administration for interfering with coaches, in fact bullying coaches. What EC is saying about interference from the administration is also what many of us “commoners” on this thread are saying about BAM’s management. He says that the administration and the coaches should be separate. Administration knows nothing about coaching and should leave coaches alone to coach. If BAM will not listen to us commoners, you would think they would listen to a legend like EC. But no, they don’t. As Pakito says, BAM has to stop being so full of themselves."

    That was probably true up to the millineum. Nowadays the CTC which all coaches report to are made up of many coaches too.
    MS is one of them.The CTC not only administers men's singles but cover all other disciplines.

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