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  1. #953
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow 'Centralised training' cannot be said to be the only best type of training

    Quote Originally Posted by ngkt67 View Post
    bam plan will be similar to current fam plan, all players have to be in the same skin color, no others (you know what i'm talking about and wish to apologise for this statement)...
    .
    IMHO, BAM people are thinking of 'centralised training' because they see China doing so well with this method. Singapore and many other countries are also doing this type of training, thinking that it is the best way to set-up their training.

    As for Swimming in Australia, I notice that many of our top swimmers can be coming from outside our 'centralised' set-up. In Badminton, I see many top Indonesian Badminton players are choosing to train in different clubs outside Pelatnas. For Soccer in most countries, most players train in different clubs (many are overseas), and they are called back for a few days (to meet teammates) before an inter-nation match is to be played.

    After seeing all these, I can say that the 'centralised training' cannot be said to be the only best type of training (for Malaysia or for any other country).
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 12-31-2011 at 03:54 AM.

  2. #954
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    Centralized training is I believe the best type of training if a country is to become a top badminton power.
    Just look at both Indonesia and Malaysia where some of their players have gone independent-another word for selfishness or used-by-date players-why are they slipping down? Their morale is shot to pieces, their team spirit is gone, their egos still intact, but their influence for the up and coming players is bad, very bad.
    I predict Indonesia may even disappear from the badminton scene in a decade. I hope I am wrong. But so long as TH is there there is no hope.

  3. #955
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow That was what Tennis players were thinking back in the 1960's

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Centralized training is I believe the best type of training if a country is to become a top badminton power.
    Just look at both Indonesia and Malaysia where some of their players have gone independent-another word for selfishness or used-by-date players-why are they slipping down? Their morale is shot to pieces, their team spirit is gone, their egos still intact, but their influence for the up and coming players is bad, very bad.
    I predict Indonesia may even disappear from the badminton scene in a decade. I hope I am wrong. But so long as TH is there there is no hope.
    .
    That was what Tennis players were thinking back in the 1960's.

    But when Tennis players started to move away from Centralized training, private sponsorships started flowing in. And independent Tennis are reaping $millions now. It all stared from our Australian player, Rod Laver.

    You can google search Rod Laver, and read how he transformed Tennis (from associations' players to independent players).
    .

  4. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    That was what Tennis players were thinking back in the 1960's.

    But when Tennis players started to move away from Centralized training, private sponsorships started flowing in. And independent Tennis are reaping $millions now. It all stared from our Australian player, Rod Laver.

    You can google search Rod Laver, and read how he transformed Tennis (from associations' players to independent players).
    .
    We are not talking about tennis. This is badminton and in badminton you can see the results of centralized training versus independents, i.e. the likes of Korea, China versus the great decline of Indonesia and Malaysia. Going independent in badminton will mean only one end result-they are on a slippery slope from day one and becomes history over less than a decade or two.
    Please name me one badminton country that has made any progress at all on the world stage by going independent. Also, please name me one badminton powerhouse that has not slipped down since going independent. Just watch Indonesia because it will not be long before no Indonesians will take to the game.
    The greatest tragedy for nations, once powerful badminton countries, have "followed" your advice only to suffer the consequences.

  5. #957
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Question Don't tell me Badminton cannot follow Tennis and other sports

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    We are not talking about tennis. This is badminton and in badminton you can see the results of centralized training versus independents, i.e. the likes of Korea, China versus the great decline of Indonesia and Malaysia. Going independent in badminton will mean only one end result-they are on a slippery slope from day one and becomes history over less than a decade or two.
    Please name me one badminton country that has made any progress at all on the world stage by going independent. Also, please name me one badminton powerhouse that has not slipped down since going independent. Just watch Indonesia because it will not be long before no Indonesians will take to the game.
    The greatest tragedy for nations, once powerful badminton countries, have "followed" your advice only to suffer the consequences.
    .
    Don't tell me Badminton cannot follow Tennis.

    Just minutes ago, I posted this in another thread;


    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    There are so many popular sports where their national associations allow players to train at their clubs.

    And when it's time to select a national team, the national association would go out to select the best players from the different clubs.

    As in Australia, all our popular sports are done this way. Just to name some sports that do it this way;
    * Basketball
    * Cricket
    * Football
    * Hockey
    * Netball
    * Tennis
    * Volleyball
    * etc, etc, ......

    In fact, with the government funds given to our national associations, these funds are in turn allocated out (to help) to various clubs who are having financial problems due to little support from private sponsorship (when these clubs not strong, and/or just starting).

    In most of many postings, perhaps I am influenced by how things are done in Australia. But the important thing is "This system works".

    However, for Badminton in Australia, no clubs have attracted top talented players to participate in them yet. And also, Badminton is not popular in Australia.
    To me Badminton is a sport, just like other sports, therefore I cannot see why Badminton can't have independent players (from independent clubs).
    .

  6. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Don't tell me Badminton cannot follow Tennis.

    Just minutes ago, I posted this in another thread;




    To me Badminton is a sport, just like other sports, therefore I cannot see why Badminton can't have independent players (from independent clubs).
    .
    This is not how to solve a problem, by bringing in other topics to fog our current issue. The problem is with badminton and the results of centralized training in badminton between countries that embrace it and countries that now foolishly go the independent as you suggest is the greatest rebuttal to your half baked idea.

  7. #959
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Question Why Badminton need to stick to a way of promotion that has shown little progress?

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    This is not how to solve a problem, by bringing in other topics to fog our current issue. The problem is with badminton and the results of centralized training in badminton between countries that embrace it and countries that now foolishly go the independent as you suggest is the greatest rebuttal to your half baked idea.
    .
    I have to disagree.

    When we see other sports getting popular because of some new ideas/formats that they have implemented; Why not copy them?

    To say it is a "half baked idea"? - I would rather say "the idea has already been baked".

    Why does Badminton need to stick to a way of promotion that hasn't shown as much progress as the promotion done by other sports?
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-27-2012 at 02:20 AM.

  8. #960
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb How Football Association of England run the sport

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    Why does Badminton need to stick to a way of promotion that hasn't shown as much progress as the promotion done by other sports?
    .
    To me, the most popular sport in the world is Football (Soccer).

    I shall send this link for our BCers to read (how the English Football Association run their sport), located at;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English...ll_Association

    Yes, I was hoping that Badminton England would follow it first.

    I have been waiting for BE to follow suit for many decades now, and I am still waiting......
    .

  9. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I have to disagree.

    When we see other sports getting popular because of some new ideas/formats that they have implemented; Why not copy them?

    To say it is a "half baked idea"? - I would rather say "the idea has already been baked".

    Why does Badminton need to stick to a way of promotion that hasn't shown as much progress as the promotion done by other sports?
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    To me, the most popular sport in the world is Football (Soccer).

    I shall send this link for our BCers to read (how the English Football Association run their sport), located at;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English...ll_Association

    Yes, I was hoping that Badminton England would follow it first.

    I have been waiting for BE to follow suit for many decades now, and I am still waiting......
    .
    One size doesn't fit all. A great mind evolves and adjusts to constantly changing situations. To blindly follow what other sports do best is not what a thinking mind should do.
    Your suggestion to go independent in badminton, so that it can "copy" other sports, has done great harm to badminton in Malaysia and Indonesia.
    Perhaps, BE, badminton China and Badminton Korea have been lucky to totally ignore your misguided and may I say totally wrong road to nowhere.
    Pls let us stick to badminton and not sweep it under the carpet with other field of sports endeavor as a cover for advice blindly applied and greatly misfired.

  10. #962
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb I may be wrong; But I am convinced

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    One size doesn't fit all. A great mind evolves and adjusts to constantly changing situations. To blindly follow what other sports do best is not what a thinking mind should do.

    Your suggestion to go independent in badminton, so that it can "copy" other sports, has done great harm to badminton in Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Perhaps, BE, badminton China and Badminton Korea have been lucky to totally ignore your misguided and may I say totally wrong road to nowhere.

    Pls let us stick to badminton and not sweep it under the carpet with other field of sports endeavor as a cover for advice blindly applied and greatly misfired.
    .
    I may be wrong; But I am convinced that currently and in the past national associations are not doing any good for our Badminton when they don't support players/coaches wishing to go independent.

    I am still upset how Chen Hong, Zhou Mi, Wang Chen, etc, ... were treated by CBA, and how Misbun Sidek was treated by BAM (just to name 2 National Associations).
    .

  11. #963
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    There is an excellent article in Financial Times: "Li Na serves an ace by flying solo" that describes Li Na's adventure in transforming the mind-set in China.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5ddeef38-2...#axzz1keIsyW2l

    Despite the professionalism in tennis as a sport in many Western countries, many Asian countries (including China) still adopts the association-based system to rule over its players even till now.

    Li Na (at the age of 26 then) was among one of the 4 pioneer female tennis players who decided to go independent and break out of the China Tennis Association in 2008. The main reasons cited were the rigidity of the system, the freedom to hire their own coaches, and the desire to earn more of the prize money if they won.

    The article correctly identified that the paternalistic system that China uses (through the various national association) has undoubtedly yielded many success over all these years. But, the move to professionalism, which was started by Yao Ming (in basketball) in 2002, had somewhat altered the thought process of many aspiring sportsman and sportswomen.

    Surely, Li Na and her fellow compatriots were criticized and ridiculed when they wanted out of the Chinese Tennis Association....especially since early results did not bear fruits. Slowly but surely...after 3 years (in 2011), they began to silence the critics with excellent performances culminating in Li Na nabbing the first ever Grand Slam title for China in the French Open.

    If Li Na and her fellow compatriots can achieve success in tennis, why can't badminton players achieve the same things too?

    If badminton is to achieve the same success as tennis and other professional sports, professionalism is the way to go! Players can be called up to represent their nations for Thomas/Uber and Sudirman Cups...similar to what tennis did for the Davis/Fed Cups.

  12. #964
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Professional Players going Professional

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    There is an excellent article in Financial Times: "Li Na serves an ace by flying solo" that describes Li Na's adventure in transforming the mind-set in China.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5ddeef38-2...#axzz1keIsyW2l

    Despite the professionalism in tennis as a sport in many Western countries, many Asian countries (including China) still adopts the association-based system to rule over its players even till now.

    Li Na (at the age of 26 then) was among one of the 4 pioneer female tennis players who decided to go independent and break out of the China Tennis Association in 2008. The main reasons cited were the rigidity of the system, the freedom to hire their own coaches, and the desire to earn more of the prize money if they won.

    The article correctly identified that the paternalistic system that China uses (through the various national association) has undoubtedly yielded many success over all these years. But, the move to professionalism, which was started by Yao Ming (in basketball) in 2002, had somewhat altered the thought process of many aspiring sportsman and sportswomen.

    Surely, Li Na and her fellow compatriots were criticized and ridiculed when they wanted out of the Chinese Tennis Association....especially since early results did not bear fruits. Slowly but surely...after 3 years (in 2011), they began to silence the critics with excellent performances culminating in Li Na nabbing the first ever Grand Slam title for China in the French Open.

    If Li Na and her fellow compatriots can achieve success in tennis, why can't badminton players achieve the same things too?

    If badminton is to achieve the same success as tennis and other professional sports, professionalism is the way to go! Players can be called up to represent their nations for Thomas/Uber and Sudirman Cups...similar to what tennis did for the Davis/Fed Cups.
    .
    That's exactly why I started this thread (Professional Players going Professional) for our BCers to discuss.

    The thread is located at;

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...g-Professional

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    Professional Players going Professional

    Here, I mean professional players going on their own, without their National Associations.

    While top CHN Tennis player, Li Na, was here in Melbourne for our 2011 Australian Tennis Open, she made this comment;

    ====== * ====== parts of articles ====== * ======

    GOING ALONE

    ............ Li, Peng, Zheng and Yan Zi, a two-time grand slam doubles champion, were granted leave by China's tennis association to organize their own tours and pick their coaches in a ground-breaking move in a country where most athletes remain yoked to a Soviet-style sports system.

    Li, who wears a tattoo of a rose and a love heart on her chest, has played her best tennis since breaking from the system and enjoys the freedom to decide her own training after clashing with Chinese officials for a number of years.

    "If you stay in the national team you don't need to take care of anything... They do everything for you," she said.

    "But right now I have my team around with me... If I'm lazy, I want to rest, I can say, 'Okay, now stop - I want to rest'.

    "Before if I (were) on the national team, I have to follow the team because I couldn't do many thing as one because we are the team."

    Her husband has also helped take the pressure off by worrying about the finances while letting Li go wild with a credit card.

    He also has the duty of watching out for her next opponent, either Maria Sharapova or Andrea Petkovic.

    "I think this is my husband's job. I just lie down on the bed and enjoy watching TV, that's all," she said.

    ====== * ====== parts of articles ====== * ======

    Li Na seems so happy now that she is on her own.

    Even Taufik Hidayat seems happier after he left PBSI.

    Will there be more 'professional' Badminton players wishing to go on their own, without their National Associations?

    I hope so; if the players become happier.
    .

  13. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    That's exactly why I started this thread (Professional Players going Professional) for our BCers to discuss.

    The thread is located at;

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...g-Professional


    .
    That was tennis, not badminton. In badminton the facts do not support your argument. The fact that Taufik Hidayat seems happier has to be viewed through the reasons for Indonesia's decline as a badminton powerhouse. Now, why is it that there is a correlation between the two-TD's happiness and the nation's decline?
    Let me tell you this. If you allow a country's top player, who has so much influence over the rest of the country, to do what pleases him only, he will just enjoy life without any pressure. His decline has become almost a morale-destroyer for the other players.
    For this Malaysia's LCW must be given credit for being more far sighted and working for the national interest.
    Now that Misbun has left BAM and gone back to grassroots coaching this speaks well of him. This is immeasurably better than sulking and walking away from badminton.
    Yes, the ultimate objective of this thread is achieved, although the thread's wordings seem a bit vindictive.

  14. #966
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Agree with much of what taneepak has said.

    Would like to add: Centralised system works best in a country where the ethos and political/legal system encourages centralised control, e.g. China. It also ensures one significant aspect: accountability and responsibility, and enforcement; which IMO is noticably -sadly- lacking in many of the associations in many other (democratic) countries.

  15. #967
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up There are players who like to show accountability and responsibility themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Agree with much of what taneepak has said.

    Would like to add: Centralised system works best in a country where the ethos and political/legal system encourages centralised control, e.g. China. It also ensures one significant aspect: accountability and responsibility, and enforcement; which IMO is noticably -sadly- lacking in many of the associations in many other (democratic) countries.
    .
    However, even in China, there are some players who like to show accountability and responsibility themselves. They would prefer not to have CBA to decide what they can or cannot do/play.
    .

  16. #968
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    Hello... I'm a newbie here...
    Just want to share my opinion here....
    The idea of badminton going pro is good....
    If only badminton is in the same level as tennis, football, basketball n etc...
    If badminton is played widely in the sports powerhouse such as America, UK n etc...
    But for now badminton is not a sport which is played widely by sports powerhouse...
    That's why badminton player who opted to go pro finds that it's hard for them to survive..

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