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  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy b View Post
    As they say, LD, "a fool and his money are soon parted..."

    I'm sure you and I will keep our zloty/pounds safe in our pockets !! Yonex prices are 'criminal'. Flame-proof clothing on ......... ;-))
    Nothing incriminating about Yonex's prices... I (and I guess you) just won't pay the asking price.

  2. #36
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    One general comment I'll make about folks that are complaining about high priced Yonex or Li Ning raquets. Specifically the comment by Roy b when he says "a fool and his money are soon parted..." . Roy, there are no fools here, they are all out on the golf course.

  3. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    One general comment I'll make about folks that are complaining about high priced Yonex or Li Ning raquets. Specifically the comment by Roy b when he says "a fool and his money are soon parted..." . Roy, there are no fools here, they are all out on the golf course.
    True, most are on the golf course. They do pay a lot more money for equipment and memberships than us, but it's all reletive. They don't go buying new clubs every week....

    Quote Originally Posted by roy b View Post
    As they say, LD, "a fool and his money are soon parted..."

    I'm sure you and I will keep our zloty/pounds safe in our pockets !! Yonex prices are 'criminal'. Flame-proof clothing on ......... ;-))
    Yeah, I don't think I will be buying this racket. I might test it, but it will take a lot (and I mean a lot) to take me away from my SW35.

  4. #38
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    I believe a lot of people are eager to see this



    A side by side comparison between VT70 and VT80 also shows that the VT80 has a thicker frame, but the shaft is still the same "Long" size





    It's an all black SAMPLE VT80 by the way.

    VT80 will be replacing the AT700 in terms of Yonex's specifications of a very head heavy, extra stiff shaft racquet (technically the AT700 also has a pretty stiff but bendable [NOT exactly flexible though]; you can confirm this by giving a beginner player a flexible racquet and the AT700 with the same string tension etc and see which one the person can hit a high clear farther with).

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeyeh View Post
    Nothing incriminating about Yonex's prices... I (and I guess you) just won't pay the asking price.
    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    One general comment I'll make about folks that are complaining about high priced Yonex or Li Ning raquets. Specifically the comment by Roy b when he says "a fool and his money are soon parted..." . Roy, there are no fools here, they are all out on the golf course.
    You got me Guys

  6. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LD rules! View Post
    True, most are on the golf course. They do pay a lot more money for equipment and memberships than us, but it's all reletive. They don't go buying new clubs every week....
    Exactly. Together with fact that "two wrongs (Golf manufacturer rip-offs and Yonex rip-offs) don't make a right.."

  7. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy b View Post
    Exactly. Together with fact that "two wrongs (Golf manufacturer rip-offs and Yonex rip-offs) don't make a right.."
    LOL two wrongs? I was simply pointing out that badminton is a relatively cheap sport to play. Taking the example of golf. No you dont have to buy clubs every week but, I have friends that would buy a new club or two every season and the cost was far more than what I was shelling out in 5 years on high end yonex raquets. Who the heck buys a new raquet every week?

    As for wrongs, what wrongs? Yonex asks for a price and people either pay it or they don't. They have a high end line of sports equipment for which they ask a premium pice for and so far people pay it and, for the most part Yonex delivers. There is no rip off or scam involved. It's called the free market and it works.

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    LOL two wrongs? I was simply pointing out that badminton is a relatively cheap sport to play. Taking the example of golf. No you dont have to buy clubs every week but, I have friends that would buy a new club or two every season and the cost was far more than what I was shelling out in 5 years on high end yonex raquets. Who the heck buys a new raquet every week?

    As for wrongs, what wrongs? Yonex asks for a price and people either pay it or they don't. They have a high end line of sports equipment for which they ask a premium pice for and so far people pay it and, for the most part Yonex delivers. There is no rip off or scam involved. It's called the free market and it works.
    thunder, I understand your points, but for some people in this world Yonex rackets are simply too expensive compared to the opposition and considering our salaries. The difference in racket prices may not be important to you, but to many of us, it is. The fact that golf players spend so much more is irrelevant - good for them, I could never afford to play golf.

    As for rip-off, yes, there is a rip-off. If Victor for example can produce equally high quality rackets at much lower prices than Yonex then.... Your 'free market' really means that a company like Yonex uses it's 'name' to charge as much money for their products as the suckers, er I mean market, will accept. I call that ripping people off.

    Maybe I'm naive in thinking that companies should have morals. But, hey, maybe I am moaning at the wrong people (Yonex), rather than the buyers, who help Yonex maintain these high prices.

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy b
    Yonex uses it's 'name' to charge as much money for their products as the suckers, er I mean market, will accept. I call that ripping people off.

    Maybe I'm naive in thinking that companies should have morals. But, hey, maybe I am moaning at the wrong people (Yonex), rather than the buyers, who help Yonex maintain these high prices.
    2 things. First off traditionally other manufacturers didn't produce equally high quality racquets. Now recently that has begun to change and in the future you may see prices come down as competition increases. The reason why Yonex 'uses it's name' is because they've earned that 'name'. Your definition of 'ripping people off' is amusing to me. I always laugh at people who think companies are wrong to charge the most for what there products are worth. Tell me, if housing prices in your area were such that you could sell your house for a million dollars would you accept and offer of half a million for it? How about work? If you were able to get a factory job in Poland Paying you 20 Euro/hour would you tell the company 'no I think I can live on 10 Euro / hour'. In short there is a certain level of hypocrisy when people complain about some entity be it a person or a corporation charging the most they can get for there product or labor when they themselves would do the very same.

    Second, on the topic of morality. Yonex's behavior in terms of pricing is absolutely moral. Their responsibility is to their shareholders (owners) to generate the maximum profit. If there are other manufactures that are producing similar equipment at the same quality for much lower prices then the free market will force Yonex to lower their prices or go broke.

    Maybe the issue isn't who you should be moaning at but whether you should be moaning at all.

  10. #44
    Regular Member jump-smash's Avatar
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    looking forward to hold this racket (VT80) in my hand together with MX80

    that a lot of 80's ! LOL

  11. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    2 things. First off traditionally other manufacturers didn't produce equally high quality racquets. Now recently that has begun to change and in the future you may see prices come down as competition increases.
    I admire your optimism, thunder

    The reason why Yonex 'uses it's name' is because they've earned that 'name'. Your definition of 'ripping people off' is amusing to me. I always laugh at people who think companies are wrong to charge the most for what there products are worth. Tell me, if housing prices in your area were such that you could sell your house for a million dollars would you accept and offer of half a million for it? How about work? If you were able to get a factory job in Poland Paying you 20 Euro/hour would you tell the company 'no I think I can live on 10 Euro / hour'. In short there is a certain level of hypocrisy when people complain about some entity be it a person or a corporation charging the most they can get for there product or labor when they themselves would do the very same.
    20 Euros an hour ? Poland ? You joking ? So, me being immoral means that it's OK for Yonex to be immoral. In short, if the going rate for housing in my area was half a million, I wouldn't be offered more. If the going rate for salaries was 10 dollars, I wouldn't be offered 20. I don't have the chance to be immoral ! I dream of the day

    Their responsibility is to their shareholders (owners) to generate the maximum profit.
    Now, we are getting there. Not immoral, but at least we know what they are doing. So Victor probably do the same and charge the same prices as Yonex then...... er, oh, no.

    If there are other manufactures that are producing similar equipment at the same quality for much lower prices then the free market will force Yonex to lower their prices or go broke.
    To be serious now, you are probably absolutely correct here. Yonex will have to rethink if the competitors start getting even stronger. Believe me, I'm a Yonex supporter and use Yonex (among others) but feel the pricing is starting to get daft. Yonex groupies will continue to buy whatever the price though.

    Maybe the issue isn't who you should be moaning at but whether you should be moaning at all.
    Come on now, what would life be like without a good moan from time to time.

    Anyway, my Badminton playing colleague, let's not get too wound up on this.

  12. #46
    Regular Member jump-smash's Avatar
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    expensive or not it is relative
    and affordable or not it is also relative
    if you really want something and put your determination and mind to it
    there is nothing too expensive that you couldn't afford
    but for me no matter how good it is or what brand the racket came from
    if the price is over USD $200 that's over the limit of my budget for a racket
    even though I have the money but I wouldn't pay more than 200 dollars for a racket

  13. #47
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    Second, on the topic of morality. Yonex's behavior in terms of pricing is absolutely moral. Their responsibility is to their shareholders (owners) to generate the maximum profit.
    That has absolutely nothing to do with morality. Do you even know what it means? It's laughable you equate 'morality' to 'maximum profit for shareholders'.

    I mean firstly, you don't have the cost breakdowns of racket sales. You don't know how much Yonex employees are paid, you don't know what the cost is of what they put back into the sport, so you have almost no information on whether they're acting in a moral way.

    Secondly, neither of you have set a benchmark for what the definition of morality is in this case, what constitutes 'right' or 'wrong'.

    And finally, nobody ever seems to whinge about Li-Nings prices for their N-Series rackets especially the N90, so we must assume that most of the sheep here are happy to help pay for Lin Dans' Bentley or whatever the f he spends your money on.


  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    It's laughable you equate 'morality' to 'maximum profit for shareholders'.
    Agreed MT. It's a sad sad world we live in nowadays.

    ..... neither of you have set a benchmark for what the definition of morality is in this case, what constitutes 'right' or 'wrong'.
    True again. But I think there is no set benchmark for morality that everyone agrees to. It's personal. Some people feel it's not immoral to screw your mate's wife, but I don't. I feel that companies like Yonex are guilty of ripping us off, whilst others think it's morally ok to only think about 'the bottom line' of the balance sheet. Like I say, it's personal.

    And finally, nobody ever seems to whinge about Li-Nings prices for their N-Series rackets especially the N90, so we must assume that most of the sheep here are happy to help pay for Lin Dans' Bentley or whatever the f he spends your money on.
    I've no experience of their products or prices, so I can't moan about this one. Damn

    P.S. I like your subtle use of the word 'your'

  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy b View Post
    Some people feel it's not immoral to screw your mate's wife, but I don't.
    Even for maximum profit

  16. #50
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    Default Morality and Profiting are independent

    There is nothing immoral about asking for maximum profit when it does not harm others. It is not as if Yonex forces you to buy its racket. Profit generation and morality are simply two independent issues. Maximising profit, owning enough market share to the extent of creating a monopoly, lowest recommended string tension for the most cash and having only 3 months for warranty, all has nothing to do with morality.

    It is possible to engage in immoral practices in the attempt to maximise profit. The common bar for morality will be the law of the land but that usually leaves some of the fringe cases like engaging in animal testing, low wage workers and depressing working environment/practices. It is also nothing immoral if Yonex purchases raw SW35 from Victor, paints it, then resell as ArcSaber 750. That's rebranding and a very very common market practice.

    Yonex has never been the only maker of high quality badminton rackets for the last 20 years. ll the while, ProKennex, Carlton and Victor are producing rackets of equal quality. There is nothing superior about Yonex's racket except very aggressive marketing and focussed sponsorship. Yonex focussed on badminton when other makers went for bigger (but congested) markets like tennis. Yonex simply has higher costs and price because players want to use what their idols uses, e.g. I'll be tempted to get an ArcZ TH if not because I already rejected the ArcZ. That has always been a marketing and pricing decision about generating the most revenue, and its still working for them (LiNing, Victor, Nike, Reebok, Mizuno, Rolex and many others in various arenas).

  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    That has absolutely nothing to do with morality. Do you even know what it means? It's laughable you equate 'morality' to 'maximum profit for shareholders'.

    I mean firstly, you don't have the cost breakdowns of racket sales. You don't know how much Yonex employees are paid, you don't know what the cost is of what they put back into the sport, so you have almost no information on whether they're acting in a moral way.
    All irrrelavent to the context of this discussion on how Yonex prices their raquets. When I say that it is moral to maximise shareholder profit my remark was strictly confined to the issue of how they price their racquets. And, the point stands the managment of Yonex have a responsibility to their shareholders to obtain the best price for their products and there is nothing immoral in that behaviour. What is laughable is your inability to distinguish context. Are you really proposing that we need to absolutly define morality to have this discussion? Good luck with that. This discussion has nothing to do with wider issues of corporate governance and in no way were my remarks meant as an overall pronucement of Yonex as a corporation and where they sit on a cosmic moral scale. It's laughable that I have to explain this to you.

    Secondly, neither of you have set a benchmark for what the definition of morality is in this case, what constitutes 'right' or 'wrong'.
    Why would anyone want to wade into that quagmire? Morality is a relative concept and it goes far beyond the scope of this thread. There is no need to 'set a benchmark'. Again I refer you to the concept of context which is Yonex's behaviour when it comes to pricing their products.

    And finally, nobody ever seems to whinge about Li-Nings prices for their N-Series rackets especially the N90, so we must assume that most of the sheep here are happy to help pay for Lin Dans' Bentley or whatever the f he spends your money on.
    While I've noticed that no one complains about Li-Nings prices I don't feel the need to judge people on how they choose to spend their money. If buying an N90 gives the purchaser satisfaction why do I need to comment? Who are you or I to judge whether they are 'sheep'?
    Last edited by thunder.tw; 02-13-2011 at 09:53 PM.

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