User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 17 of 31
  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    704
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Question Shaking the racket before serving

    I have a quick question that since there is one player in my club with a unique serve that I didn't realize was possibly illegal until I started reading up on some the rules with serving. Before serve, he shakes his racket (much like how players shake their racket to keep their muscles "warm") before serving, adding a lot of disguise to it. Would this violate the category of having no pause after the forward movement of his racket during a serve? Just wanted to get some opinions before I call him out on the next time and settle it peacefully as opposed to a confrontation.

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Leeds, UK
    Posts
    5,436
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    From the start of the first forward movement of the service motion the racket movement must be continuous. To anser your question a few more need to be answered:

    -This Shaking, is it done whilst he has the shuttle in front of his racket?
    -Does he remain still, then start shaking then hit?

    If the answer to either of these is yes, I would say it is most likely to be illegal, but without seeing a video it is impossible to be conclusive. I don't really know what you mean by shaking....

  3. #3
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    26,739
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Arrow He shakes his racket

    .
    As jamesd20 said;

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    From the start of the first forward movement of the service motion the racket movement must be continuous.
    The first forward movement towards to shuttlecock (at Service) cannot be pulled backward, and forward and backward, and forward before hitting the shuttlecock. Otherwise, how would a receiver know which of the forward movements is the one going to hit the shuttlecock? Therefore, it is illegal.
    .

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Leeds, UK
    Posts
    5,436
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    As jamesd20 said;



    The first forward movement towards to shuttlecock (at Service) cannot be pulled backward, and forward and backward, and forward before hitting the shuttlecock. Otherwise, how would a receiver know which of the forward movements is the one going to hit the shuttlecock? Therefore, it is illegal.
    .
    Yes, but if he is doing this shaking prior to putting the shuttle in front of his racket, it could be argued his service motion had not started yet, he could shake, then quickly put the shuttle down & take the serve.

  5. #5
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    26,739
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Arrow If he is doing this shaking prior to putting the shuttle in front of his racket......

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    Yes, but if he is doing this shaking prior to putting the shuttle in front of his racket, it could be argued his service motion had not started yet, he could shake, then quickly put the shuttle down & take the serve.
    .
    That's why I phrased in my post "The first forward movement towards the shuttlecock (at Service) cannot be pulled backward...".

    The receiver should be clear about the first forward movement towards the shuttlecock (if it's a Service or not). An experienced umpire should also know if the shaking of the movement of the stroke was meant to deceive or not.

    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 02-21-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,976
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have noticed lin dan has a small double-motion on his serve but he doesn't seem to get faulted for it. His motion isn't very severe or deceptive though.

  7. #7
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Leeds, UK
    Posts
    5,436
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    That's why I phrased in my post "The first forward movement towards the shuttlecock (at Service) cannot be pulled backward...".

    The receiver should be clear about the first forward movement towards the shuttlecock (if it's a Service or not). An experienced umpire should also know if the shaking of the movement of the stroke was meant to deceive or not.

    .
    Slap my wrists, I apologise!

    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    I have noticed lin dan has a small double-motion on his serve but he doesn't seem to get faulted for it. His motion isn't very severe or deceptive though.
    Yes he does, when he used to serve forehand he did used to get faulted doing this though....

  8. #8
    Regular Member Mark A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    St Helens, UK
    Posts
    4,286
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I suppose it all comes down to whether or not the "shake" is deemed integral to the service action. A lot of players, myself included, gave the racket a few shakes to keep the wrist warm before serving, but there's a good second of two of stillness before my service action commences (so I wouldn't be faulted on it).

    LD, on the other hand... I'd fault him EVERY time if it were up to me, but he's gone so many matches now without being faulted that no service judge would dare do it for fear of "...well the other umpteen judges didn't have a problem with it...".

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    704
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I guess it is illegal then. I'll clarify shaking a little more. I guess you could say it's like a "vibrating" movement in which he shakes the racket backward and forward quickly and looks like it is vibrating. There's barely any time between his shaking and the serve, I'd say about half a second. That definitely would violate the rules as said in above posts. Thanks for the input, I'll bring it up the next time I play him.

    edit: I just looked at Lin Dan's serve (From 2009 All England tournament anyway), and I can definitely see he has a double-action on his serve, though they're much bigger movements than what I described. Technically he should be faulted but I guess for points brought up above he isn't. He also has a little bit of the "vibrating" i mentioned earlier though that's before he has the shuttle ready to serve so that's not the faulting point.
    Last edited by Tactim; 02-21-2011 at 03:30 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    26,739
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thumbs up I'll bring it up the next time I play him

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactim View Post
    I guess it is illegal then. I'll clarify shaking a little more. I guess you could say it's like a "vibrating" movement in which he shakes the racket backward and forward quickly and looks like it is vibrating. There's barely any time between his shaking and the serve, I'd say about half a second. That definitely would violate the rules as said in above posts. Thanks for the input, I'll bring it up the next time I play him.
    .
    Good.

    Probably he doesn't know that before and during the Service, the server should not do anything that can cause the receiver to become unsettled and/or not ready.

    There is a solution. If you find the action (in a Service) that makes you unsettled and/or not ready to receive, don't move (in other words don't attempt to return it). Just explain that you weren't ready and a 'Let' should be called.

    But please don't you and him start using 'Gamesmanship'; and forget that to enjoy Badminton, good sportsmanship is a must.
    .

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    704
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah, I know what you mean. Our club is pretty chill and most people don't intentionally try to break the rules. Even if we do, we just point it out in a friendly manner and they apologize. There has not been a single case of people just trying to use gamesmanship as you said to gain an advantage over an opponent, we all know each other too well and are too nice to do that =). I guess that's a luxury that isn't present in a lot of other clubs though, so I guess i'm lucky.

  12. #12
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    26,739
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thumbs up Our club is pretty chill and most people don't intentionally try to break the rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactim View Post
    Yeah, I know what you mean. Our club is pretty chill and most people don't intentionally try to break the rules. Even if we do, we just point it out in a friendly manner and they apologize. There has not been a single case of people just trying to use gamesmanship as you said to gain an advantage over an opponent, we all know each other too well and are too nice to do that =). I guess that's a luxury that isn't present in a lot of other clubs though, so I guess i'm lucky.
    .
    Very happy that you are in an excellent club.
    .

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    NorCal, United States
    Posts
    895
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's technically illegal once he has the bird up, however, there can be leniency since some players tend to shake their rackets for being nervous or something. As long as it does not really distract the receiver, it is usually fine. If there's an umpire, it's generally up to the umpire to decide whether that person should be faulted or not but usually the umpire will give some leniency.

  14. #14
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    26,739
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Arrow Many casual score-keepers do not know the Laws of Badminton

    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    It's technically illegal once he has the bird up, however, there can be leniency since some players tend to shake their rackets for being nervous or something. As long as it does not really distract the receiver, it is usually fine. If there's an umpire, it's generally up to the umpire to decide whether that person should be faulted or not but usually the umpire will give some leniency.
    .
    Correct.

    And if the receiver finds the (shaking) action a distraction, he/she should inform the umpire; And the umpire will decide if the shaking is OK or not.

    The above is meant for 'qualified' umpires, and not for casual score-keepers, many of them do not know the Laws of Badminton. If the score-keepers say that they don't know the Laws, then talk to the competition referee. Most competition/tournament referees do carry with them the booklet 'Laws of Badminton'.
    .

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Richmond, BC
    Posts
    5,209
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lin Dan mostly has the double action service but he does it so many times that the umpires don't call it.

    However he has been called on a triple action service back in 2004. It must of been inadvertently because he normally does double. When he was called, he dropped his racket!

    Below is the direct youtube URL with the time frame in question about the tripple action.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH2Lv...ailpage#t=525s
    Last edited by Matt; 02-22-2011 at 10:27 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    26,739
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Lightbulb Lin Dan should asked himself this question......

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Lin Dan mostly has the double action service but he does it so many times that the umpires don't call it.

    However he has been called on a triple action service back in 2004. It must of been inadvertently because he normally does double. When he was called, he dropped his racket!

    Below is the direct youtube URL with the time frame in question about the tripple action.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH2Lv...ailpage#t=525s
    .
    Lin Dan dropped his racket to show how disappointed he was; But he should know about this 'Law'.

    Lin Dan should asked himself this question: "Will my receiver know which of my forward actions will be the one hitting the shuttlecock?".

    .

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    963
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    At the top level if the shaking or moving the raket towards the shuttle before serving is consistent and not deliberately too deceive then the players do not get faulted. At a lower level shaking the racket is actually more likely to cause problems for the receiver. Its a grey area..

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Yellow Card for not shaking hands
    By pcll99 in forum Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating
    Replies: 56
    : 08-05-2012, 11:42 AM
  2. Shaking of the racquet when awaiting the bird?
    By Nick in forum General Forum
    Replies: 13
    : 09-08-2009, 04:57 AM
  3. Shaking hands
    By CoolDoo6 in forum General Forum
    Replies: 21
    : 10-04-2006, 11:38 PM
  4. Shuttle contact with racket during Serving
    By juris in forum General Forum
    Replies: 1
    : 08-09-2005, 09:27 AM
  5. Serving
    By andy in forum General Forum
    Replies: 5
    : 04-11-2001, 08:55 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •