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  1. #2092
    Regular Member Cycril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucantseeme View Post
    IMO Victor butch their own business. Their releases are not well timed. Victor is quite too fast for customers. They don't give any racket the time, to be advertised and settle in the market. They release rackets every year and discontinue others. They create to fast new lines and discontinue others. The second thing is that the have too many racket IMO. Too many close and mid end rackets. Additional the different products of Victor International and Victor Taiwan are not a smart thing marketing wise. Also remember the 4/5, 4/5 rackets flooding the market in asia last year or the year before? I'm not sure. They have the ability to develop superb stuff, have well designed apparel and clothing, but every year the same. A new Victor racket comes, which should be so groundbreaking and stay at best just a few years. This is not cogent.
    JJS is nearly retired a year ago and the MXJJS will be available in April 2013 in Europe. What the heck?

    I personally think I will stock up this year my loved SW35, MX80 and BS10 and don't buy another racket until I break one line completely.
    I guess Taiwanese have bad-er marketing compared to the others. Like the HTC, the released less than 3 months and the HTC One rumor is going viral on the net. (phew~luckily i didn't bought the Butterfly)

    As my father always tell me. Taiwanese still make new things even they have less info about it. For example, the Graphene. They started out with just at the T head, then changed to frame, then next? the whole shaft? I think i'll just wait for a full graphene racket then. Then they will make another new series for it, meanwhile dumping those MX/TK series. I think we should apply for the position - Marketing Manager in Victor, pretty sure that Victor will quickly become as HOT as Li-Ning/Yonex.

    Apologizing for bad english, still need to improve.

  2. #2093
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renbo View Post
    Yonex is no different on that matter. In the past two years the AT and Nanospeed disappeared, quite a lot, and a bunch of weird racquets were lunched, like the i slash or flashboost or else. But Yonex line of product is more easy to follow because its logic is quite simple : head light, balanced and head heavy racquets.
    But the Armortec series has been around for ages - the AT700 came out in what? 2006? I think after that time, you can retire a line of rackets. After all they want to make some money with new products that enthusiasts will buy immediately and others will be forced to use once their rackets are discontinued
    In comparison, the Superwave line only had 3 rackets and is apparently gonna be retired soon. The Spira series only had 2 rackets.
    What makes matters worse is that they don't have the clear system of 3 (or maybe 4) lines with clear differences, like Yonex has and adidas will have. The Meteors could be marked as their 'Control' line as they have pretty stable heads and are more or less even balanced, while the Braveswords clearly fall into the 'Speed' category. While the Superwaves were officially the 'Power' line, they lacked the really head heavy stuff all other companies have since the SW35 was discontinued (which wasn't quite on the level of a N90 or VTZF either, if what I've read is correct).

    I hope they'll make things more clear for ppl who don't want to spend hours upon hours agonizing over rackets. If the TK line is clearly marked as head heavy and power-oriented, that's a good first step - now they need to keep the Meteor and Bravesword lines and make it more clear which line has what characteristics. Continuously releasing new stuff (FlumeTec, Lightfighter,....) is only gonna make matters worse.

  3. #2094
    Regular Member clawhammers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulless View Post
    I don't understand their business strategy. Why drop some models that need time to become classics. It suggests to me that their 'technologies' are just gimmicks, every year they bring out new names and minor squeaks and claim that it is the next big thing to make players buy more and more.

    Take a look at the Yonex threads, people are still collecting rackets that have been around for 10 years. How many people collect Victor?

    Maybe Squash_Eric is right, there is no point getting all those new model as the racket technologies have matured, other than head shape, it is difficult to improve one performance aspect without compromising other aspects.

    Other than the Adidas switchpro, I don't think that I have seen a true innovation for years.


    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    in terms of technology, i guess that applies to Yonex also. what has Yonex brought to the table that is any more advanced than Victor?

    manufacturers need to come up with fresh new models to attract buyers. i am not sure how many brands actually keep old models just because they believe they are already "perfect" in the sense that they don't need to upgrade them.

    Victor and Yonex also do a lot of refreshes, like new paintjob (BS12, ARC12, AT700), to keep buyers interests. Yonex do limited models by repainting existing rackets, at least the limited Victors are new specs.


    Quote Originally Posted by ucantseeme View Post
    IMO Victor butch their own business. Their releases are not well timed. Victor is quite too fast for customers. They don't give any racket the time, to be advertised and settle in the market. They release rackets every year and discontinue others. They create too fast new lines and discontinue others. The second thing is that the have too many racket IMO. Too many close and mid end rackets.

    Additional the different products of Victor International and Victor Taiwan are not a smart thing marketing wise. Also remember the 4/5, 4/5 rackets flooding the market in asia last year or the year before? I'm not sure.

    They have the ability to develop superb stuff, have well designed apparel and clothing, but every year the same. A new Victor racket comes, which should be so groundbreaking and stay at best just a few years. This is not cogent.

    JJS is nearly retired a year ago and the MXJJS will be available in April 2013 in Europe. What the heck?

    I personally think I will stock up this year my loved SW35, MX80 and BS10 and don't buy another racket until I break one line completely.


    Quote Originally Posted by soulless View Post
    At least Yonex do a better job marketing. IMO, Victor is attracted by short term cash grab opportunity is doing so at the expense of its brand. It has so many models with similar specs and it is very difficult to choose. There are ample research showing too many options without clear differences can reduce buyer satisfaction.

    I am actually fine with refreshes, at least I know that I am buying a different look of the same racket that I enjoy. As long as the paint jobs are nice I suppose. I have a problem with advertising new specs as they are re-inventing the business but turn out to be quite ordinary.



    Quote Originally Posted by renbo View Post
    Yonex is no different on that matter. In the past two years the AT and Nanospeed disappeared, quite a lot, and a bunch of weird racquets were lunched, like the i slash or flashboost or else. But Yonex line of product is more easy to follow because its logic is quite simple : head light, balanced and head heavy racquets.



    Having read all of these comments, I would also like to put my opinions, as follows:


    Sources of references =
    Yonex Japan Catalogues (Anno 2008-2013), and, Yonex Global Catalogues (Anno 2008-2013),
    Victor Catalogues (Anno 2010-2011, Spring-Summer 2012, Fall-Winter 2012, and Spring-Summer 2013)



    I am of the opinion that both vendors (YY and V), although there are differences, are actually similar in general


    I learnt that YY categorizes their rackets based on the (i) series, and (ii) balance point (head heavy, even balance and head light), and V categorizes their rackets based on the (i) series, and (ii) frame design.

    Further, YY put all of their products within 1 unified chart system, so that the costumers may directly compare each other in terms of balance point and hold/repulsion effect. Whilst V never put all of its products within 1 chart as YY does.


    But since the released of Victor's Catalogues for Spring-Summer 2012, Fall-Winter 2012, and Spring-Summer 2013, I am surprised to found that V was trying to put all of its products into 1 unified chart system, and also applying similar terms, i.e., balance point, and control/bounce effect. Therefore, in this term, we could conclude that V is following YY promotional strategy.


    Currently, every vendors seem are trying evolve rapidly, and this can be shown by frequency of releases of their latest products. For the past 3-4 years, we may note that YY releases its products 2 times every year, i.e., during Spring (March-April) and Autumn (September-October).


    On the other hands, V usually releases their latest products also 2 times every year, i.e., 1st Quarter and 3rd Quarter. I rarely found any new badminton rackets being released during summer nor winter.


    We note that both vendors share similar racket’s categorizations, as follows: [at present]

    Power Rackets – Yonex (Armortec and Voltric) against Victor (SuperWave, Artery Tec, Thruster)
    All Around Rackets – Yonex (Arcsaber) against Victor (Meteor X)
    Speed Rackets – Yonex (NanoSpeed and Nanoray) against Victor (BraveSword)

    All of these are designated to each consumers’ (personal) preferences


    Their R&D Divisions are showing us (the consumers) with never-ending evolution, refreshment and development of products. Added with their so-called sophisticated gimmicks, they try to convince us that the latest/recent products are better compared to the older/earlier models.



    The tendencies of 2013 YY line-up seems to bring the badminton game into faster and lighter stages. These are evidenced with the recent releases of F and 5U products (73-78 gram), i.e., Voltric 30 (JP Domestic Market only), Arcsaber FB, and Arcsaber 6. Last year (2012), they also introduced their lightest ever shoes to the market, i.e., SHB F1. They argued that the current badminton games is very fast, and even the professionals couldn't cope with the attack / counter attack from the opponents.



    Last but not least, I have my suspicions, that V would concentrate for the release of other Thruster products in the near future. Based on the reference of sequential releases of Meteor X Series in the past (starting from 80, then followed by 70 and 60), probably we may foresee the release of Thruster K 7000, and then 6000, etc. Simultaneously, they probably would also release 1 or 2 new products in BraveSword (BRS 12 L) and Meteor-X series too.



    The consequences of these rapid strategies affect the consumers. We are the victim of vendors’ marketing and promotion as we are tempted to try (and to buy) their latest products everytime of new releases.


    Therefore, I agree with the aforementioned opinions, it would be wise for us to stick to our current rackets which fits our playing styles, personal preferences and skills. There would be no use to purchase new products unless our most favored/preferred rackets have been discontinued by the vendor. Trying to cope with all of newly-released products would end up nothing, save for the empty wallets for us. Hahahaha


    Just sharing my two cents
    Last edited by clawhammers; 03-24-2013 at 06:27 AM.

  4. #2095
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    what happen to the hybrid composite?

  5. #2096
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    But the Armortec series has been around for ages - the AT700 came out in what? 2006?
    First half of 2003 even . "10 years of Armortec". I think most series are around for at least 8 years or so, only the Titanium series had a short international lifespan, NanoSpeed 7000 came out in second half of 2004.
    But Chen Hong was using SW32 back in first half 2007 already, probably the first two SW models (SW32 and SW33 Power/Control) ...
    Last edited by demolidor; 03-24-2013 at 07:38 AM.

  6. #2097
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    That's my point...Victor have not established a second series to support Bravesword. I really thought Meteor would be it but it has almost come and gone in Europe in virtually one season.

    Paul
    www.badminton-coach.co.uk

  7. #2098
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    First half of 2003 even . "10 years of Armortec". I think most series are around for at least 8 years or so, only the Titanium series had a short international lifespan, NanoSpeed 7000 came out in second half of 2004.
    But Chen Hong was using SW32 back in first half 2007 already, probably the first two SW models (SW32 and SW33 Power/Control) ...
    Wow. That's quite a lifespan - I think while a 10 year lifespan for a racket series is quite nice, there have been great improvements where carbon is concerned since the AT series (and SW) came out.
    I really forgot about the SW32 and 33, with the SW30 that actually brings the series up to 7 high end rackets.
    I don't really think the Bravesword series needs a replacement - they're still great rackets, and just releasing new models every now and again (like the 12/LYD) would be enough. They should keep the Meteor series up and running though, it is definitely different as the more solid frames give the rackets a much more massive feeling compared to the BS frames.
    Imop the best way to go would be to keep both BX and MX lines and just promote the TK series for now - there's a definite need for more head heavy models in Victor's line up as they have nothing to offer for players who like the ZForce/VT80/N90 type of racket. Afaik the SW37 is balanced, not head heavy, and the TK8000 isn't stiff enough for a big amount of players.
    I really think they should get a successor for the SW35, I understand it was quite successful and can't imagine why they wouldn't give those happy with it a new model to buy as they did with the Bs09/12

    Oh, and I have no numbers or statements, but if the Meteor series lacked success in Europe that will have been because of the price (10-30€ ABOVE Yonex - that's 6.6-20%) and complete lack of availability. The delay is just unforgiveable - the Mx80 was only available about 3 months after I had gotten mine from Asia, and the same goes for the rest. The TK8000 is actually the fastest model to appear as there have been only a few weeks between release in Asia and its appearance in the German catalogue.
    While I understand they don't want to print new catalogues more than once a year, at least they could have the decency to import the new stuff a little quicker than that! Compared to Asian customers, I feel cheated as only ~50% of their stuff is available, and usually 2-6 months later.
    Last edited by j4ckie; 03-24-2013 at 08:32 AM.

  8. #2099
    Regular Member clawhammers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulstewart64 View Post
    That's my point...Victor have not established a second series to support Bravesword. I really thought Meteor would be it but it has almost come and gone in Europe in virtually one season.

    Paul
    www.badminton-coach.co.uk

    Well ... perhaps this is also influenced by the policies applied by the Victor's official distributorship

    If I'm not mistaken, my friend in china informed me that actually there are differences between categorization of rackets in China/Taiwan markets with Victor's other markets

    Speed - Brave Sword (High End) and Explorer (Low End)
    All Around - Meteor X (High End) and Super Nano (Low End)
    Power - Thruster / Super Waves / Ti Artery Tec (High End) and Challenger (Low End)



    CMIIW

  9. #2100
    Regular Member Mark A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulstewart64 View Post
    That's my point...Victor have not established a second series to support Bravesword. I really thought Meteor would be it but it has almost come and gone in Europe in virtually one season.

    Paul
    www.badminton-coach.co.uk
    I think this is because the Bravesword has a "hook": the diamond frame.

    Victor seems to base its series on the wrong thing, for me - "this racket line has tech X". They should do what Yonex does: "this racket line has balance X". A (serious) player doesn't pick a racket because it has Octablade, or whatever; they pick a racket based on what they want it to do.

  10. #2101
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Absolutely, they would be very foolish to discontinue Brave Sword. Super Waves could have been kept as well, should never have been called Super Inside Wave over here in the first place but perhaps there are some legal reasons behind it. Flumetec in Dutch sounds like a loogie (correct english word: phlegm)
    Meteor series has been handled extremely foolish indeed ... but that's what you get with contradicting interests from Victor International ... (or so it seems)

    [SW30, 31, 32, 33C, 33P, 35, 36 & 37]
    Last edited by demolidor; 03-24-2013 at 08:44 AM.

  11. #2102
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    I am surprise at all england 2013 mixed double final indonesian T.Ahmad/L.Narsir using victor.. when indonesian start use victor,, i thought Yonex sign long term contract with indonesian ?

  12. #2103
    Regular Member Mark A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrerkiko View Post
    I am surprise at all england 2013 mixed double final indonesian T.Ahmad/L.Narsir using victor.. when indonesian start use victor,, i thought Yonex sign long term contract with indonesian ?
    Their contract must have run out, or the INA Federation is allowing players to choose their own sponsors now; the last INA players to switch were Kido and Setiawan, and that was after they left the PBSI.

  13. #2104
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    No surprise brother Ferrerkiko.... for 2013... Victor, Li Ning, Yonex and Fly Power dominate the Indonesian players...

    National Centre based players are endorsed by Victor and Yonex mostly.

    While, independent players representing Indonesia are endorsed by Li Ning and Fly Power..

    Example: Hendra Setiawan / Md Ahsan - Yonex

    Markus Kido / Pia Zebadeth - Li Ning

    Tantowi Ahmad / Liliyana Natsir - Victor

    Cheers....=)

  14. #2105
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    Wah like that means can choose sponsor , then must be good la ?

  15. #2106
    Regular Member soulless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrerkiko View Post
    Wah like that means can choose sponsor , then must be good la ?
    Very good for the players. You get the bigger sponsorship if you perform well on the international circuits. I cannot think of a better way to tackle match fixing / walk overs / not trying hard/, problem hurt the popularity of the sport. Should have been done long ago. I wish China and S. Korea would do the same, but the their program with national and state government being involved early on in the players' training makes it difficult.

  16. #2107
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    Then why Yonex don't give more money to indonesian players sponsor them ?

  17. #2108
    Regular Member soulless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrerkiko View Post
    Then why Yonex don't give more money to indonesian players sponsor them ?
    Good question, maybe Yonex not as rich as before, at least compared with other manufacturers. And perhaps it is trying to target other players. Thailand has a lot of young and up-and-comers who will be good for Yonex in the future.

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