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  1. #52
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I like this weaving trick

    Quote Originally Posted by biomik View Post
    frankly if i were a moderator I'd ban this guy from UK for rudeness
    .
    Sad to say, some BCers can be rude.

    IMHO, this tool could be useful for new stringers who are slow to hand weave.

    More experienced stringers would find this tool unnecessary; when it can only save around 1 minute to string 1 racket.

    Anyway, this is a beginning to make improvement for how to string faster. I like the weaving trick posted by Ouchee;

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchee View Post
    Has anyone seen the following? I think it is a pretty good trick on weaving.

    <iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6Tuc5ISysro" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    .

  2. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by biomik View Post
    frankly if i were a moderator I'd ban this guy from UK for rudeness
    Except that you aren't, and egocentric authoritarian people like you shouldn't be moderators. What's the rule, respect my opinion and I'll respect yours?
    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    - respect each other's viewpoint, only then will they respect yours.

  3. #54
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    I do think this tool can be useful for most people if designed right.

    If it can save just one minute to an experienced stringer, well it's one minute. If you string many rackets in a day, maybe it can allow you to string one more at the end of the day.

    Also, most people in this thread just say "I weave a cross in X seconds". However, that is probably just a one time try or their fastest time. If that is the case, it might not be realistic to consider that it takes that much time for each cross string. Weaving a cross string can take more time (I know it takes me more time anyways) after the 15th cross or so since you have less and less space for your arms to weave the string freely. Sometimes you can also misweave or just take more time because you lack concentration.

    I think that at worst, it would make experienced stringers save a couple seconds, and beginners save a couple minutes, which already sounds reasonable if the price of the device isn't too high.

    This is the kind of product that benefits from customer feedback a lot and multiple iterations can lead to really good products. I know I'll be wanting to buy and try the product when it comes out if it is not too expensive.

  4. #55
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    there is a subtle difference between expressing your opinion (some product is not useful or whatever) and asking them to shove it. However, if you are over 16, it is possibly too late to teach you to see the difference.

  5. #56
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    That's all well and good assuming purely opinions were expressed by both parties. It takes some special kind of narcissist to come into a thread and force their values onto everyone else while contributing absolutely nothing to the thread. While we're on the subject of teaching since you seem to be so inclined of forcing your beliefs on others, let me teach you a little bit about hypocrisy. See, you are entitled to accuse someone of being rude provided that you aren't being rude yourself, otherwise doing so is hypocritical and makes you look like the half-wit you appear to be. I'll congratulate you for your attempt at patronisation, though, keep it up.

  6. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by yan.v View Post
    If it can save just one minute to an experienced stringer, well it's one minute. If you string many rackets in a day, maybe it can allow you to string one more at the end of the day.
    If it can save one minute. A lot of us believe it cannot, and we believe it would only work for 76 grommet systems, (not 72 grommet systems) up to the top 5 crosses stringing bottom to top. Stringtechno hasn't commented on the issue of grommet systems and hasn't provided any timed videos of the tool's use on badminton rackets as of yet for comparison. Judging from the prices of the tennis cross stringer, be prepared to pay $80+ US. I don't know about the times quoted, but the times I quoted were the averages for stringing the middle 10 crosses (the fastest ones to do)

  7. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by yan.v View Post
    1) I do think this tool can be useful for most people if designed right.

    2) If it can save just one minute to an experienced stringer, well it's one minute. If you string many rackets in a day, maybe it can allow you to string one more at the end of the day.

    3) Also, most people in this thread just say "I weave a cross in X seconds". However, that is probably just a one time try or their fastest time. If that is the case, it might not be realistic to consider that it takes that much time for each cross string. Weaving a cross string can take more time (I know it takes me more time anyways) after the 15th cross or so since you have less and less space for your arms to weave the string freely. Sometimes you can also misweave or just take more time because you lack concentration.

    4) I think that at worst, it would make experienced stringers save a couple seconds, and beginners save a couple minutes, which already sounds reasonable if the price of the device isn't too high.

    5) This is the kind of product that benefits from customer feedback a lot and multiple iterations can lead to really good products. I know I'll be wanting to buy and try the product when it comes out if it is not too expensive.
    1) Please define "design right". I asked Stringtechno and his original goal was to use it for all string except top 1 and throat 1. My question is, can it be done? He even admit that the tool has to stop at top 4.
    2) given that my average weave time (based on def from stringtechno) is ~8-9 sec for the middle 11 cross. The tool has no advantage for me as now on speed.
    3) Yes, I string average 15 racquets a week. And I can tell you that on average, It take me 25 min per racquet given the racquet tension is less than 26lb. The main issue here is that Stringtechno is using his def of weaving time. Since we know the def now and by timing it his way, we find that there is not a big advantage or significant advantage at this point.
    4) Please be more specific, a couple sec per racquet or per cross? Assume it can save me 3 sec per cross. That will give me about 30 sec per racquet given the tool can do main 10 cross. Will it be worth it for me? It is a big if to me.
    5) We try to give feed back on the possible problem and he just keep on telling us it works without testing or solid evident. He keep pumping up his tool and finally he draw the picture and notice the last 4~5 crosses will be an issue. That is what I got frustrated.

    Please understand, this is 2nd time he tried to promote this tool without a proto-type to back it up. I have done all I can to help stringtechno. I will sign off on this thread for now.

    Good luck to stringtechno.

  8. #59
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    Very well said.

  9. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    1) Please define "design right". I asked Stringtechno and his original goal was to use it for all string except top 1 and throat 1. My question is, can it be done? He even admit that the tool has to stop at top 4.
    2) given that my average weave time (based on def from stringtechno) is ~8-9 sec for the middle 11 cross. The tool has no advantage for me as now on speed.
    3) Yes, I string average 15 racquets a week. And I can tell you that on average, It take me 25 min per racquet given the racquet tension is less than 26lb. The main issue here is that Stringtechno is using his def of weaving time. Since we know the def now and by timing it his way, we find that there is not a big advantage or significant advantage at this point.
    4) Please be more specific, a couple sec per racquet or per cross? Assume it can save me 3 sec per cross. That will give me about 30 sec per racquet given the tool can do main 10 cross. Will it be worth it for me? It is a big if to me.
    5) We try to give feed back on the possible problem and he just keep on telling us it works without testing or solid evident. He keep pumping up his tool and finally he draw the picture and notice the last 4~5 crosses will be an issue. That is what I got frustrated.

    Please understand, this is 2nd time he tried to promote this tool without a proto-type to back it up. I have done all I can to help stringtechno. I will sign off on this thread for now.

    Good luck to stringtechno.
    1) Designed right = practical. Hoping that the designer can come up with a way to string as any crosses as possible with the tool (preferably up to 16+ crosses.
    2 & 3) Comparing your weaving time without the tool and with the tool should be done practically before dismissing any claim or argument I think. Right now, he has no proof that the tool will have benefits, but we don't have proofs that it won't either. Maybe that we should wait until the tool is out before dismissing any belief that it can work before it even goes out on the market.
    The base of the idea is: "We want to create a tool that makes weaving faster and easier", and I think everyone here likes the idea and wish it is possible. All we can do is make suggestions to improve the design instead of pointing out problems and saying the tool is useless. If the designer does not want to change the design, it's his choice. If the product fails on the market, he'll know why.
    4) Yes, a couple seconds per racket for someone who weaves very fast. Of course if the tool's price is 80$ US, I don't even think it'd be worth it for a beginner.
    5) Yes he does not seem to be welcoming much of the feedback, but you guys are not helping either. It seems more like you already want the product to fail than help improving it. I think there are issues with both parties' communication.

    I'd rather think the product will make miracles than expect it to be bad right off the bat. If it's bad, too bad. I'll just have wasted like 10 minutes reading reviews of the tool and will go back to normal stringing. If it's ok or better, great! It'll be a base to improve from and make better tools.

    Also, maybe we can ask StringTechno why the product wasn't released when he first tried a couple years ago.

  10. #61
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    Default Repairing the discussion

    I actually decided to stay out of the discussion because it is useless to really try to have a dialogue with the market and you are accused of all kind of marketing and sales intentions. The question to those guys is: how do you want it, you can have influence on the design of a product now (which is rather rare in my opinion) and you blow the good intentions away.

    But perhaps it is possible to do some repairing by exchanging some honest opinions:

    * I do leave the UK guy out of my analysis, there is nothing constructive coming from him.

    Silentheart is different:
    You certainly try to add things to the discussion.
    - But I am afraid that you write much better than read what is written.
    - You seem to doubt anything that I mention and explain me what our tool can and can not do. While we have a machine in the shop with a badminton racquet and the prototype in it.

    And this is not our first cross stringer. We started the Stringway business in 1983 with our first cross stringing tool, so we know very well what a cross stringer can and can not do. There is no use at all that we say that it can do things which are not true, because lying to the market gets back at you like a boomerang.

    In reply to your points:

    1) Please define "design right". I asked Stringtechno and his original goal was to use it for all string except top 1 and throat 1. My question is, can it be done? He even admit that the tool has to stop at top 4.

    What is wrong when I admit that what your are asking is not possible? My goal is to use it for as many crosses as possible from the first until 3 to 4 crosses before the last depending on the way you use it. This means that you use the tool for 18 to 19 crosses in a 22 pattern


    2) given that my average weave time (based on def from stringtechno) is ~8-9 sec for the middle 11 cross. The tool has no advantage for me as now on speed.

    I did not define a weave time. There was a good discussion with Kwun what to measure and how to compare. And that is exactly what I did. It was also said that it takes a good stringer 12-15 crosses to only weave a cross string. And of course there can be exceptional exceptions like Silentheart who does it much faster. (although 8 – 9 sec is unbelievable fast imo)

    3) Yes, I string average 15 racquets a week. And I can tell you that on average, It take me 25 min per racquet given the racquet tension is less than 26lb. The main issue here is that Stringtechno is using his def of weaving time. Since we know the def now and by timing it his way, we find that there is not a big advantage or significant advantage at this point.

    * May be it is not an advantage for you as a very fast weaver but the importance is not you but the average badminton stringer whose time will probably be closer to 20 seconds.
    * Besides, the speed is not the only advantage. I think that the biggest advantage is that your level of concentration can be much lower; as soon as the string goes into the channel nothing can go wrong anymore.

    4) Please be more specific, a couple sec per racquet or per cross? Assume it can save me 3 sec per cross. That will give me about 30 sec per racquet given the tool can do main 10 cross. Will it be worth it for me? It is a big if to me.


    Also, most people in this thread just say "I weave a cross in X seconds". However, that is probably just a one time try or their fastest time. If that is the case, it might not be realistic to consider that it takes that much time for each cross string. Weaving a cross string can take more time (I know it takes me more time anyways) after the 15th cross or so since you have less and less space for your arms to weave the string freely. Sometimes you can also misweave or just take more time because you lack concentration.

    * I think that this answer from yan.v very true.

    5) We try to give feed back on the possible problem and he just keep on telling us it works without testing or solid evident. He keep pumping up his tool and finally he draw the picture and notice the last 4~5 crosses will be an issue. That is what I got frustrated.

    * Do you really think that we do need stringers far away from us to do the tests while we designed and tested cross stringers for so many years? And if we need testers there are a lot of Dutch badminton stringers “round the corner” who are eager to do tests. And is something only true when it is proven with video’s? This is not a court of justice! It is the intention of this discussion to get the best possible solution and not that we have to justify everything that we say.

    As I mentioned in the beginning of the discussion, we are certainly willing to make a special offer (not 20 % discount but very special) to ALL members of this forum with positive attitude.

    But we do not get back into the discussion when our words and intentions are questioned all the time.

    In the meantime we will make the actual proto of the design that we have now and test it.

    Enjoy your weekend
    Stringtechno

  11. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringtechno View Post
    * I do leave the UK guy out of my analysis, there is nothing constructive coming from him.
    Clearly you are unable to read either.

    Quote Originally Posted by stringtechno View Post
    I did not define a weave time. There was a good discussion with Kwun what to measure and how to compare. And that is exactly what I did. It was also said that it takes a good stringer 12-15 crosses to only weave a cross string. And of course there can be exceptional exceptions like Silentheart who does it much faster. (although 8 – 9 sec is unbelievable fast imo)
    No, it was said that it takes a good stringer 12-15 seconds from grommet to grommet. You decided to measure only the time it took to put through the tool. Any good stringer can do it in 8-9 seconds not including the grommets.


    Quote Originally Posted by stringtechno View Post
    * May be it is not an advantage for you as a very fast weaver but the importance is not you but the average badminton stringer whose time will probably be closer to 20 seconds.
    * Besides, the speed is not the only advantage. I think that the biggest advantage is that your level of concentration can be much lower; as soon as the string goes into the channel nothing can go wrong anymore.
    Already been pointed out many, many times that it could be useful for novice stringers, just not for experienced stringers.

    Quote Originally Posted by stringtechno View Post
    * Do you really think that we do need stringers far away from us to do the tests while we designed and tested cross stringers for so many years? And if we need testers there are a lot of Dutch badminton stringers “round the corner” who are eager to do tests. And is something only true when it is proven with video’s? This is not a court of justice! It is the intention of this discussion to get the best possible solution and not that we have to justify everything that we say.
    So don't say it. Simple as that. Unless you can back it up, your claims will be met with skepticism from those who know better. If you want to promote your product, you'd better be willing to back up your product and the claims you make. If you don't, then why make the thread in the first place? And why bother defending your products against people who refute your claims, when you don't even think you should have a need to justify your claims? The questions are rhetorical just in case you were thinking of answering them. Stop denying that the purpose of this thread was to promote your product.

    Quote Originally Posted by stringtechno View Post
    But we do not get back into the discussion when our words and intentions are questioned all the time.
    So back them up with solid evidence, there is no other way to put it. If you can't, you aren't entitled to complain about it.

    So far the opinions of most are for using your tool:
    Not faster than a good stringer, only useful for beginners and lazy people
    Only works for 76+ grommet patterns
    Can't do the top 4-5 strings stringing bottom to top
    Costs a lot

    Or am I not being constructive enough?

  12. #63
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    I would like to know:
    Does this guy weave fast, average or slow.
    Please only look at his weaving.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR5DHKA_Scw

  13. #64
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    Takes him 17-20 seconds from grommet to grommet, so I'd consider him an average stringer. Bad technique though, he shouldn't be pulling the string straight though like that, especially since he isn't weaving one ahead!

  14. #65
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    I would say slower than average. Check this video out, I think he is one of the best so far from all the videos that I have seen. He did all crosses under 9 mins.

    http://youtu.be/euSBZVcytbg

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    That looks slightly sped up. If not, 6 seconds doesn't sound believable looking at the way he does it. You have to do it like YULitle for it to be believable. Mute the sound, then it looks more obvious.

  16. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchee View Post
    I would say slower than average. Check this video out, I think he is one of the best so far from all the videos that I have seen. He did all crosses under 9 mins.

    http://youtu.be/euSBZVcytbg
    That guy's got a thumb nail for stabbing people!

  17. #68
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimcorner View Post
    That guy's got a thumb nail for stabbing people!
    i think she is a woman.

    or is that what you are implying?...

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