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  1. #35
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    Hi Cheung,

    What do you propose to improve what we have proposed/suggested?
    Video?
    or the player willing to challenge an official from the authority?
    How did the danish did it? they must have a system that work pretty well
    or maybe they do not complain or raise to call for referee but there are infringement of the rules
    I think alot of parents(who are 1st time badminton parents) do not dare to raise an issue
    do you see there are such people around?

  2. #36
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    This problem is not an individual one but a sign of a more systemic and top down problem.

    The only solution is for the coaches to be told by a higher authority to recognize and correct it at an early stage. Otherwise if it is allowed to run rampant, English badminton will not be highly regarded by others.

  3. #37
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    Default The other side of drive serve...

    I played since I was 5 and I can beat some national players, in another word, I know badminton. Though I have not kept up w/ the rules, it has not changed with regards to serve. What I hate is players who do not spend time learning how to receive drive serve and complain that it is illegal. It is a bold statement when I see in this blog claiming that 95% of drive serve is illegal. That is what makes players do not want to utilize it. It's very useful tool once a while, but it got such reputation that most do not want to use it.

    Just yesterday, a guy claimed my drive serve was illegal. Well I am tall and I serve below my waist and racket heads downward, so I asked which part was illegal and the response I get, "It's too flat.". Well is not that the whole point of a drive serve, a good server can execute it very flat and right in your face... but once the serve is flatter, the default reaction is to cry fowl. Once I have even re-demonstrate my drive serve, and it was really flat and totally legal, then one guy kept quiet. But it is so very annoying to have this kind of behavior of crying fowl if it is a good flat drive serve. So my point is drive serve is legal people, if you can execute it well it will be flat. Stop giving drive serve a bad reputation.

  4. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skanbuzz View Post
    Hi Cheung,

    What do you propose to improve what we have proposed/suggested?
    Video?
    or the player willing to challenge an official from the authority?
    How did the danish did it? they must have a system that work pretty well
    or maybe they do not complain or raise to call for referee but there are infringement of the rules
    I think alot of parents(who are 1st time badminton parents) do not dare to raise an issue
    do you see there are such people around?
    I don't live in England now so I don't see much of this

    Dlp described a situation of a player being allowed a foul serve by the observer. I think that is wrong.

    I would definitely encourage my player to serve higher near the limits of a legal serve because that is still legal.

    I entirely agree with Gollum's statement. And the issue of official's observing the serve applies to all tournaments. Not just seniors but also juniors.

    If a player suspects an opponents serve is in error, then he has the right to ask for a service judge.

    I remember one time as a junior, the opponent hitting the clear but the shuttle landing marginally out. My opponent would not believe me. After the game ended, there was an impartial observer who told him the shuttle was out on those occasions

    Back in the old days as a junior doubles player(*cough*), I used to spend a lot of time on practising my serve against the wall and on court by myself. Although not very tall, I still managed to produce a drive serve, flick serve etc. even though I'm a typical height for an Asian player . This was (and still is) probably the strongest part of my game as my other techniques were pretty bad. So I remember in one time in a county tournament, a person came to sit on the side of the court and observe my serve. Quite unusual behaviour in those days. I believe he got a bit of whining from the other junior players. However, no problems

    I've always had a very good, tight, doubles serve and use drives and flicks. No problems with serve errors in HK tournaments where it's more common to have a service judge. I wish the rest of my game was at the same standard.

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoozswup View Post
    What I hate is players who do not spend time learning how to receive drive serve and complain that it is illegal. It is a bold statement when I see in this blog claiming that 95% of drive serve is illegal.
    ...
    a good server can execute it very flat and right in your face... but once the serve is flatter, the default reaction is to cry fowl.
    It's certainly true that players should accept legal drive serves as part of the game, and learn to deal with them by practising the returns instead of complaining.

    Unfortunately, it's been my experience that most drive serves used in club play are illegal. This does change at higher standards of club play, where drive serves tend to be legal but rare.

    If the serve is coming "right in your face", then it probably is breaking at least one service law (and most likely two). The serve must travel in an upwards direction, because your waist is substantially lower than the net (note also rule 9.1.8, which states that "the flight of the shuttle shall be upwards from the server's racket to pass over the net...").

    Unless you are 8 feet tall (!), you probably cannot make a "right in your face" drive serve using a flat hitting action. It is possible, however, by using top spin, which can cause the shuttle to swerve downwards after passing the net. I have one student in particular who is talented at this.

    But top-spinning your serves is effectively banned by rule 9.1.6, which states that "the shaft of the server's racket at the instant of hitting the shuttle shall be pointing in a downwards direction". For this reason, I had to advise my player that his serve, although very skilful, was probably illegal. I don't like to say "definitely illegal", because I'm not a service judge.

    (As a consolation, I suggested using his excellent top-spin skills for playing drives in the rally, especially as smash defence.)

    Under-cutting ("bottom spin") also works to an extent, and is legal; but it seems to be much less effective than top spin. At least, I've not yet seen it produce "right in your face" serves.
    Last edited by Gollum; 06-07-2011 at 05:17 AM.

  6. #40
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    I frequently advise players if their serves are illegal. At the same time I make sure all players are aware of the rules and are aware of the need to stand up for themselves in respect of their opponents infringing the rules.

    Players will push the service rules to the limit and players will hopefully give tough (but fair) calls on lines. All players should be educated to speak to officials if they are faced with a dodgy service, it is virtually impossible for a player to call the opponents serve as a fault and claim the point.

    Coaches also teach players to tie their shoelaces when they lose a point (I don't do this), walk off and take a drink if they are tired (I don't do this) and even stare /shout at players when they hit them with the shuttle. I don't condone any of this , but again I don't complain about it, I teach players to deal with it, I expect organisers/referees to be aware of it and I don't allow players to use any of it as an excuse

  7. #41
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    How ironic?

    "Badminton is one of the few sports where players often self-judging, and it puts demands on the players' morale. But off the field with coaches, parents and teammates, we need to remember how to show respect for others in all phases of the game."

    Google translated from:

    Badminton er en af de få idrætsgrene, hvor spillerne ofte selv dømmer, og det stiller krav til spillernes moral. Men også uden for banen, hos trænere, forældre og holdkammerater, er der brug for at huske på, hvordan man viser respekt for andre i alle faser af spillet.

    DBF.dk from the danish federation website (ironic in the light of the revolving Bo/Mo debate). They even have a fairplay song on the website (born out of need? ^^)
    Last edited by demolidor; 06-13-2011 at 02:48 PM.

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