Yonex vs LiNing vs Victor

[Ferrerkiko]

Bro Naim , can share with me where u can the info VT 80 balancing point is 315mm ?

thanks.

[Naim.F.C]

Bro Naim , can share with me where u can the info VT 80 balancing point is 315mm ?

thanks.

That's the measurement from my own VT80. Strung with BG66UM and Super Grap. It's now gripped with RKEP G11 so the BP has probably dropped a bit. Just my guess though.

[ssj100]

Still, I'd probably take an MX80 over the SW35 personally. My MX80 is 301mm with BG66UM and Super Grap (BP lowers by 5mm using heavier RKEP grips) so it's not far off the SW35, but imo has better materials (carbon woven head), better frame aerodynamics (octo frame) and string retention from the 80 grommet design. Comparatively, my VT80 is 315mm BP with the same string and grip. So it's quite a lot head heavier. Far as I can tell Victor still don't have anything as head heavy as the VT80 or N90.

Naim.F.C, have you actually personally tried the SW35?

[Ferrerkiko]

But i saw in another webpage says VT 80 is only 295 balancing point.

[Naim.F.C]

Naim.F.C, have you actually personally tried the SW35?

Not personally no. Just basing off lots of different opinions, including those of the SW35 vs both the VT80 and MX80.

But i saw in another webpage says VT 80 is only 295 balancing point.

No chance. I have a second I'm supposed to sell. That is also around 314mm strung with BG66UM. I'd say a naked VT80's BP is probably around 305mm. In-fact here is a post from Druss comparing BP's.

Ok so I measured my rackets and also 1 more that my friend left with me for stringing and here are the prestringing weights and bps

Arcsaber 8dx wt=88.8g, bp=289mm
VT80 3U wt=89g, bp=305mm
VT80 4U wt=83.2g, bp=306mm
VT80 4U (2) wt=84.6g, bp=308mm
MX80 3U wt=87.3g, bp=288mm
MX80 4U wt=85.6g, bp=295mm

Once I have them all strung I will provide those as well.

[ssj100]

But i saw in another webpage says VT 80 is only 295 balancing point.

I think it's officially rated between 290-300. Remember, balance point has to be measured with the racket unstrung. For example, my Lethal 70 balance point is about 315mm strung (and with original grip), when its official balance point should be 290mm.

[Ferrerkiko]

Yes , i agree balancing point stated in webpage is always unstrung .

[Naim.F.C]

Yes , i agree balancing point stated in webpage is always unstrung .

See Druss's post quoted above. Out of 3 unstrung VT80's measured, all were 305mm BP or above.

[ssj100]

What tensions do you string your rackets at Naim.F.C?

[Naim.F.C]

What tensions do you string your rackets at Naim.F.C?

Currently all at 24lbs mains and 26lbs crosses. Except on the MX80 where I use Victor's 80 grommet stringing recommendation where not all crosses are 26lbs. With the BG66UM this tension so far has been best for me.

[ssj100]

Currently the VT80 is still imo the best choice for an ultra aggressive tool. It is a bit in-efficient in design, and overly demanding to use compared to other Victor rackets, but it still packs a punch in terms of power that's currently missing in the Victor range. An ultra head heavy MX80 would probably solve that. But till then, it's one area Yonex still lead.

Actually, many people say the Yonex ARCSABER Z-Slash is the best smashing racket Yonex has to offer, and it's not really head heavy. Being head heavy doesn't necessarily mean you will produce more power. (Arguably) the two biggest smashers in Men's Doubles used (one of them still does) the Yonex Ti-10, which is not that head heavy. Taufik Hidayat has got one of the biggest smashes in Men's Singles, and he uses the Z-Slash.

[Naim.F.C]

Actually, many people say the Yonex ARCSABER Z-Slash is the best smashing racket Yonex has to offer, and it's not really head heavy. Being head heavy doesn't necessarily mean you will produce more power. (Arguably) the two biggest smashers in Men's Doubles used (one of them still does) the Yonex Ti-10, which is not that head heavy. Taufik Hidayat has got one of the biggest smashes in Men's Singles, and he uses the Z-Slash.

I can't really talk for others, but I've noticed head heavy rackets definitely produce more power for me, but only after I have the strength and speed to wield them. For example, originally the MX80 was both faster and more powerful than the VT80, add to that, the VT80 just gave me achey shoulders and tired me out. After a week or so adjusting to it however, I believe I'm getting more power out of the VT80, and considering they are roughly the same stiffness, and the VT80 is actually lighter (feels much heavier though), I attribute that to the head heaviness. Once you adjust to the extra demand of speed and strength for a head heavy racket, the extra head weight (for me personally) really helps with inertia and momentum. I had the same thing going from the BS10 to MX80 as well.

In any case, I only used the Z-slash in one session and really didn't get on with it. Had too many mis-hits and problems with timing, and even then I didn't feel my smash was much different to my 8DX at the time. Also felt the Z-Slash had a really un-forgiving sweet spot. I can't really explain it too well, but it was a bit difficult to get consistent direct hits.

[ssj100]

Naim.F.C, I think you're generally right. Head heavy rackets potentially produce more power than head light rackets. However, I think swing speed comes into play too. If a racket is lighter at the head, I suppose it can be swung faster? Therefore, a faster swing should produce more power? If you can swing a head heavy racket fast, it should mean you can swing a head light racket even faster. I think in the end, it comes down to personal preference.

[greblu]

But I believe the most stiffnest racket and head heavy racket is Lin Dan's N90 ., balancing point 304-305.

It is not: Stiffness: SW35>NS9900, N9000x>N90II>N90 , it is not even extra stiff , just stiff (or even medium stiff compare to the SW35)
but it has a very good power transfer.

I have yet to try Li-Ning, but out of principle, I'm kind of not bothered. They come to the market new but have the audacity to charge the very highest premium prices and even then, have poor QA. Repeat breaking grommets, poor quality wood handle finishing etc. If you're going to charge paramount prices, you better damn well bring only the most premium quality. So for me Li-Ning is ruled out.

I play with the N90 for 1.5 years now, and it is still fine although I had some racket clashes, floor hits and ceiling hits ..., and the handle never broke (With relation to that I already broke many handles before, but I changed my hitting technique as well)^^ But the paint and especially the grommets are very poor for such a high price. But I think in terms of durability there are hardly any other rackets on the market which can compete with the N90. So an good expensive racket which never breaks could actually an inexpensive racket.

If you can swing a head heavy racket fast, it should mean you can swing a head light racket even faster. I think in the end, it comes down to personal preference.

Some players like me have too much power and swing speed for a head light racket, so when I change from the N90 to the N50 my arm feels like its gonna fly away when i do a powerful smash and when I overdo it, it even causes pain. When your body is limiting the swing speed and not your power and explosiveness it does mean that you should change to a heavier and more head heavy racket to produce more power. "I think in the end, it comes down to personal preference" and capability.

[twobeer]

I have yet to try Li-Ning, but out of principle, I'm kind of not bothered. They come to the market new but have the audacity to charge the very highest premium prices and even then, have poor QA. Repeat breaking grommets, poor quality wood handle finishing etc. If you're going to charge paramount prices, you better damn well bring only the most premium quality. So for me Li-Ning is ruled out.

I don't really know on what grounds you make those claims? Any sources to this? I currently own 11 LN rackets, and knows some sponsored players as well. and the higher-end models have been very high quality stuff. I have yet to break a LN and I have broken many, many YYs in my days.. LN bought Kason which was one of the major Chineese manufacturers when going into badminton, which was a primary racket-producer for the junior national team etc., and to think the Chineese would allow their national team to use nothing but the best the chineese factories are able to produce seems very unlikely imop. they produced something like 3000 prototypes for the national-team to try when the took over from YY.. If that is not R&D intesive, then what is??

Victor. Just brilliant. Overall I'd say Victor was my fave racket manufacturer among them all. They not only have some of the best innovations in racket design (indented grommets for more string less visible plastic, angular frames, 80 grommet strings, woven graphite on the high end stuff etc etc) but they are also astonishingly, the cheapest. As far as quick, defensive high precision control rackets go, Victor imo cannot be beat. Slightly aggressive to medium aggressive, again, imo the MX80 is sublime. That additional power but with limited if any speed loss.

I agree that Victor is great :-)

Yonex, great QA, beautiful art and durable paint, but imo slightly archaic racket design. Besides changing dimensions of shafts and head frames, the general frame design itself hasn't really changed much over the years. Add to that, it's very clunky. Also, imo Yonex charge far too much. For rackets, shuttles and accessories. Basically, you are pretty much paying for the name.

Actually I don't think YYs is overly expensive.. I think their later problems is more that they they seem to try to hard to compete with price, and is lowering the standards and try to take shortcuts (like the new voltric fram design) to be able to use cheaper graphite, and earn more revenue.

That said, they do have good quality rackets and fill a niche that Victor still has yet to conquer, that being the ultra aggressive segment.

Currently the VT80 is still imo the best choice for an ultra aggressive tool. It is a bit in-efficient in design, and overly demanding to use compared to other Victor rackets, but it still packs a punch in terms of power that's currently missing in the Victor range. An ultra head heavy MX80 would probably solve that. But till then, it's one area Yonex still lead.

But in all other areas, head-light or fast technical speed rackets, all round or slightly aggressive based rackets, imo Victor have it. With the BS10, BS12 for the prior and the MX80 for the latter.

I think for example the SW 35 feels quite head-heavy (think it is something like BP 310)...

[Naim.F.C]

Firstly, with respect to Li-Ning, I don't have links, but just search the N90 forum, especially the N90 II. Droves of people have had cracking grommets and so forth. I even made a few posts saying I thought it was unacceptable given the extortionate price.

I also have to disagree about Yonex's pricing. However you look at it, £190 RRP on a thin graphite racket is ridiculous. The mark-up must be exponential. Well over 100% if you ask me. That just isn't right. Honestly the RRP imo should be no higher than £120. Victor have far more reasonable prices and with better materials.

Lastly, from the many posts I've read talking about SW35 owners measuring their BP's (Jump-smash, Imaster, Maklike, CycliverBadminton etc), I'd say the racket's BP was closer to the 295+ mark. The majority seem to be below 300mm but a few break the 300mm barrier. With the VT80, N90 etc, I've not heard of a single one not being above 300mm BP, most are 305mm and above. So they are on average still head heavier by a decent margin.

[arfandy]

Here's a new marketing strategy applied by today's 90% production manufacturers (including badminton). By default, the manufactures put up a sticker on the products (e.g: rackets are on their handles, money currency depending on the country distribution). Which states the retail/original/manufacture/market price of the racket itself, plus if any, few specs of rackets, but very rare. Usually the price on sticker is higher by 30~35%, thus average costumers would think twice upon seeing the crazy price. Then here's the trick, seller/distributor then say would give discount from 25~30% if purchase from their store (within a month promo or so, or if having membership card of that particular shop). After discounted the price, for customer; it is a "happy ending" to have purchased cheaper-than-retail-price, while for seller; they could still earn 5~10% profits plus other benefits from manufactures if reaches the sales quota.

I know this because one of the badminton distributor in China mentioned something about "not believing" the price on the racket upon first glance! It's just a psychological tricks to "push-and-pull" customer's hearts from what they see! Hard to believe? come to China, Thailand, Indonesia (these are the countries i know the method works well) to every single LiNing/Yonex/Victor official stores, where they all would give you 20% off from the price on the sticker. Then come to a small-hardly-seen badminton shops, where the old-poor-looking-boss is able to give you discount up to 35% off, plus the free bag, free string, and if you know the boss very well,... he/she would give you some free nice badminton sleeve-shirt as well, yet still able to treat you like a king on his/her shop!

With regards on LiNing racket, yes.. hi-end rackets have very good durability with poor grommets at freaking expensive price. Why? i believe those who purchased LiNing products, have indirectly contribute to pay off the sponsorships of all Chinese national players, plus the campaign, video promotional, events, etc..etc... not to mention tax for China government which would be used to level up China to being #1 strongest country on earth!