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  1. #86
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Question How can we discredit the achievement of Susi Susanti?

    Quote Originally Posted by naistav View Post
    Very provocative.
    Some can praise a player as they please, but should other disagree, better not to put nasty discredit like this.
    YZY achievements is ... where is her OG gold? 96? No. It's BSH, 2000? She was ordered to lose to GZC. 2004? Oh she was retired. 1992? Oops.. Susi won at age 21, and err .. YZY was too young of 18 yrs. Some say if not won in young age, she is not good, Eh?
    GZC gold medal 2000 was tainted, YZY was ordered to lose to her.
    BSH, She never won WC.
    So, with slightly better achievement of Susi had, why they should looks down to Susi? Where is the logic?
    LLW, HA both are Susi's idol, were unlucky to not having OG held on their era. In my opinion, if they are at same era, there would be good rivalry.
    ZN is comparable to Susi, maybe slightly better in achievement (despite of OG 2008 are some considered as a bit controversy of her won over XXF)
    Ehm, btw, ZN never won AE, although she participated most of her years career.
    So, Susi might not be the only one greatest, but she is definitely one of the greatest WS.
    .
    Agree... How can we discredit the achievement of Susi when she was the best at her time?

    The problem in our discussion is BCers are trying to compare players from different time-lines.
    .

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    very wise say, not like someone

  3. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune View Post
    When 9 titles is very possible, surely 4 is not enough (She can surpass the achievement of Rudi Hartono from pre-historic era). Many of Susi's rivals looks down to All England (9 times out of 10 editions in Susi's era)...but the result was very - very shocking : Susi won AE 3 times (exclude AE 1991) and failed 6 times ! LLW, Ye ZY, Lim XQ, Bang SH, GZC & Zhang Ning looks down to All England (or maybe they looks down to Susi ? )...they played in Swedish Open (held 1 week before AE)...but in the end, they can beat the fresh, focus and greatest Susi (according to her fanatic fans). When greatest player only focus in 1 tournament, who on earth can beat her again and again ? Greatest player lose to an average players whom are not fresh and focus again and again ? Where is the logic ?
    Here's something for you to ruminate upon. None of the chinese ever beat this lady.

    Judy Devlin is the third most successful player ever in the All England Badminton Championships, with 17 titles, 10 of them in women's singles and 7 in women's doubles.

  4. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    To beat Susi, a player must have a full tank of oxygen on standby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune View Post
    Susi's greatest asset was the stamina, not skills / technique. Her skills was just average. Talking about stamina, Susi was able to play WS - WD - XD (3 matches per day) from Round 1 to Final, and win all 3 categories in 1987 World Junior Championship. You can imagine her stamina...if she play in 1 discipline only in 1 event !
    For LLW, lack of stamina is not a problem, even if she against the younger player whom rely on stamina, and not skills. When 18 years old Susi was affraid to play WS in 3 consecutive events (7 matches in 2 events)...the 25 years old LLW dare to play WS in Swedish, and WS & WD in AE & French 1989 (21 matches in 3 events in 3 consecutive weeks), plus the fact that LLW won all WS titles in 3 events. Not only that, the extremely tired LLW still dare to looks down the younger and fresher Susi, and she still can win the match...easier than their first meeting ! hahaha

    http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/fi...133E64CC&q=309
    Last edited by Fortune; 07-16-2012 at 08:47 AM.

  5. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    Im not too sure about her H2H record againts her main opponents, but my wild guess will be very good.
    Susi has a big chance to make it 1 - 1 against the greatest LLW, after the Chinese had already played in 12 matches, plus 1 in the 1989 AE Final, and also she will play in the French Open. LLW won't go all out against the player whom rely on stamina, despite Susi only played for 6 matches plus 1, and not compete in French Open. But the result ? An easier win for LLW compare to their first duel in Japan open 1989
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    I remember she dominated the game during early 90 towards the end of it, when I think she won everything that can be won.
    Did she win World Championships 1991, 1995 & 1997 ? How about OG 1996 ? How about China open, HK open and Singapore open ? How about BAC and Asian Games ?
    Last edited by Fortune; 07-16-2012 at 09:05 AM.

  6. #91
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    I think Fortune acting a little much to discredit SS's achievements.

    True she is not the greatest player in WS to walk on earth but she is one of the best players of her time.
    Her position is completely different to Taufik Hidayat's. At least SS still manage to hold her ground against emerging players
    and never let them beat her so easily. Furthermore she is still winning titles back then. Quite a lot too.
    Taufik case is different. He won only four major tournaments (OG, WC and 2 AG) but that's all I can ever say about this guy nothing else.

    Worse was he failed to justify the titles he won with 7 years of bad results and the only way for him to win back graces to become a great player is to make amends in the London Olympics.
    SS won too many titles and still hold her ground against many top players despite age catching up on her real fast. Taufik won the major titles but later on getting himself pummelled by too many players now. Even Marc Zwiebler and Axelsen have beaten him already.

    Well Fortune please do not discredit SS. All I can say is she has done enough to justify her postion in the Hall of Fame.
    Even with China at its strongest in UC, she can still inspire INA to win the UC twice in a row plus she also helped INA to win their first SC later on nobody else have succeeded. Further she also showed us that she is capable of winning any title regardless of the venue.

    Taufik on the other hand has not done enough. He needs a medal to make up for the 7 years of bad results.
    If he loses in the Olympics without any title, then his major achievements can be discredited because it was not a big deal and most importantly unlike SS he has not done enough to essentially justify and back it up.
    Well he assumes he has, but people especially me do not think so.

  7. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by miksss View Post
    The most unforgetable moment should be the ' 1989 Sudirman Cup Miracle '. Actually i still not born yet in that time. But i read the article. INA was trailing 0-2 behind KOR. And the 3rd match is Susi vs Lee Young Suk. Susi still 18 that time and lost narrowly 10-12 in first set. Unfortunately Susi was trailing 2-10 in second set, and seems like INA will lost it, the supporters already dont have any spirit to cheer anymore and some have left their seat. Guess what? Supporters are wondering, what happen? Susi slowly chase with never die spirit and equalize the score 10-10 and eventually wrap it 12-10. Its fantastic! Imagine! Lee only need 1 points more and KOR will celebrate the triumph. In 3rd set, Lee Young Suk lost all her motivation and Susi won 11-10!! The whole KOR team collapse and finally INA won 3-2.I read that Lee Young Suk got slap from her coach after her match.Susi is the best ever WS!
    Susi is the best ever WS bcoz of this victory over Lee Yong Suk ? btw, 27 years old Han Aiping also can beat LYS in 3 sets (9 - 12, 11 - 5, 11 - 0)...so what do you think about Han Aiping ?

    http://infogamesindonesia.blogspot.c...dscom.html?m=1
    Last edited by Fortune; 07-16-2012 at 09:23 AM.

  8. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    I think Fortune acting a little much to discredit SS's achievements.
    Please give the fact, and not only complain. My post always based on fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    True she is not the greatest player in WS to walk on earth but she is one of the best players of her time.
    The best #4 ? Or the best #5 in history ?
    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    Her position is completely different to Taufik Hidayat's. Taufik case is different. He won only four major tournaments (OG, WC and 2 AG) but that's all I can ever say about this guy nothing else.
    If taufik has 4 (according to you AG = major title), then how about Susi ? How many major title in her collections from 9 - 10 attempts ?

  9. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    IMO, Gong Zhi Chao from China playing style, fitness and running game is close to Susi, both won OLY gold, and if both players were to play each other at their peak, that would one heck of a match.
    After lose in the first meeting, Gong won't go all out in Russia Open 1996 (1 week after that, she won Denmark open), and she can beat Susi. From 13 point deficit in INA open 1996 become 13 points surplus in Russia . In Swedish open 1997, Gong Zhichao was tired after playing WS & WD (7 matches in total)...and 5 days after that, against the fresh Susi in AE (as usual ), and still, Gong won in straight set.http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...D791&player=78. In World Championships 1997, Gong Zhichao proved that she was (at least) 1 level higher than Susi, when she demolish Susi 11 - 5 and 11 - 2...means that Susi only can scores less than 1/3 than Gong's total points http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/ra...=542&t2p1=5943
    Last edited by Fortune; 07-16-2012 at 09:56 AM.

  10. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune View Post
    Please give the fact, and not only complain. My post always based on fact.The best #4 ? Or the best #5 in history ?If taufik has 4 (according to you AG = major title), then how about Susi ? How many major title in her collections from 9 - 10 attempts ?
    I have great respect for her because she justifies her position as one of the best and no i didnt say she is the greatest.
    How many WS singles do you see winning more than one medal in every major tournament ?
    SS can win multiple medals from AE, WC, OG and AG. She is not a fluke. At that time, there were a couple of strong players in the WS field and it aint a joke.
    Apart from that, she doesnt only win many titles plus she also won titles from many different venues which could be a disadvantage for most players. Apart from Wang Yihan, till now i cannot find another WS who is capable of winning titles regardless of venue.
    ZN , ZM , GRN and GZC are no where near SS achievements. They cannot produced the same performance in every major tournament while SS alone can do it despite many attempts. Well at least she did it right eventually.
    WYH and WSX will be the next ones to rival SS's achievements depending on how the OG will unfold.
    Bear in mind WYH has literally won everything except the OG and AG while WSX though she is still young and havent won many titles but she is a big tournament player again and at the age 22 she also has won everything except OG and WC.

  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune View Post
    After lose in the first meeting, Gong won't go all out in Russia Open 1996 (1 week after that, she won Denmark open), and she can beat Susi. From 13 point deficit in INA open 1996 become 13 points surplus in Russia . In Swedish open 1997, Gong Zhichao was tired after playing WS & WD (7 matches in total)...and 5 days after that, against the fresh Susi in AE (as usual ), and still, Gong won in straight set.http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...D791&player=78. In World Championships 1997, Gong Zhichao proved that she was (at least) 1 level higher than Susi, when she demolish Susi 11 - 5 and 11 - 2...means that Susi only can scores less than 1/3 than Gong's total points http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/ra...=542&t2p1=5943
    Oh no, with 1 match or 1 tournament can say one is higher level than the other? Where did the OG, WC, AE title Susi gone?
    And dare to saying that your post is based on fact? Oh, 1 fact. OK. Got it.
    Btw, LCW always lost to Taufik before 2004. Ok, LCW is 1 class lower than Taufik, don't bother the rest of years of LCW tremendous SS titles collection.
    Oh don't forget Maria Kristin defeated Zhang Ning in INA Open once, ok ok let's not talk ZN 2 Gold OG Medals. Remember, 1 match 1 tournament fact ya?
    Ow another one, KOR MS Choi I-forgot-the-name .. defeated Lin Dan once too in straight games. Oh man, he is definitely then 1 class higher than Lin Dan.

  12. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortune View Post
    After lose in the first meeting, Gong won't go all out in Russia Open 1996 (1 week after that, she won Denmark open), and she can beat Susi. From 13 point deficit in INA open 1996 become 13 points surplus in Russia . In Swedish open 1997, Gong Zhichao was tired after playing WS & WD (7 matches in total)...and 5 days after that, against the fresh Susi in AE (as usual ), and still, Gong won in straight set.http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...D791&player=78. In World Championships 1997, Gong Zhichao proved that she was (at least) 1 level higher than Susi, when she demolish Susi 11 - 5 and 11 - 2...means that Susi only can scores less than 1/3 than Gong's total points http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/ra...=542&t2p1=5943
    Susi peak was in 1992 while Gong peak was in 1996, both culminated in OLY gold. Both are small in statute but played like giants in this game. Susi will be favorably recognized as one of the best that graced this game and as I said, the best player to come out from INA. I simply loved to see Susi played badminton, the way she played this game, not only beating out or losing to whom that really matters. To name any player the world best ever, that would certainly invite controversy as players peak in different times/eras.

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    Susi's achievements:
    Gold Medal Barcelona 1992
    Winner World Championship 1993, semifinalist World Championship 1991, 1995
    Winner All England 1990, 1991, 1993, and 1994, Finalist All England 1989
    Winner World Cup 1989 ,1990, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997
    Winner World Badminton Grand Prix 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1996
    Winner Indonesia Open 1989, 1991, 1994, 1995, 1996, and 1997
    Winner Malaysia Open 1992,1993, 1994, 1995, and 1997
    Winner Japan Open 1991 1992, 1994, and 1995
    Winner Korea Open 1995
    Winner Dutch Open 19931994
    Winner German Open 1992, 1993 1994
    Winner Denmark Open 1991 and 1992
    Winner Thailand Open 1991, 1992, 1993, and 1994
    Winner Swedish Open 1991 1992
    Winner Vietnam Open 1997
    Winner China Taipei Open 1991, 1994 and 1996
    Winner world championship junior 5 times (1985 ws,wd,xd) while 1987 (ws,wd)

    She may not be the greatest WS, but she is one of the greatest. I don't mind if ZN, GZC, LLW, HA, BSH to be included.
    I disagree with this thread title, but I disagree more to discredit Susi Susanti.
    Last edited by naistav; 07-16-2012 at 10:46 AM.

  14. #99
    Regular Member drquick's Avatar
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    Dear fellow forumers
    I just want to say that our dear friend Fortune is the man who responsible to make a thread about Susi --in one of Indonesian forum about badminton-- last long in what a seemingly an endless of debates and full of arguments from september 2009 till now with an amazangly 342 pages and 3412 posts. Honestly I quite admire with his ability to arguing and debates for so long time and faces so many forumers against him.
    That's why I stop to reply him because I realize no matter what we give to him, he will stand still and keep discredit everything Susi's achieve in the past and even dear to said Susi as a coward, weak and a looser. He will only keep throw every facts he has and uses his own thinking and interpretation for his favours to discredit and disrespect Susi.
    So I'm afraid this thread will only have the same fate with the thread I've said above.
    If anyone think that he is not an Indonesian ??? well you better think again

    For they who understand bahasa, this is the link of the thread I mention above. Enjoy it
    http://forum.detik.com/all-susi-susa...html?&page=342
    Last edited by drquick; 07-16-2012 at 11:29 AM.

  15. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    Dear fellow forumers
    I just want to say that our dear friend Fortune is the man who responsible to make a thread about Susi --in one of Indonesian forum about badminton-- last long in what a seemingly an endless of debates and full of arguments from september 2009 till now with an amazangly 342 pages and 3412 posts. Honestly I quite admire with his ability to arguing and debates for so long time and faces so many forumers against him.
    That's why I stop to reply him because I realize no matter what we give to him, he will stand still and keep discredit everything Susi's achieve in the past and even dear to said Susi as a coward, weak and a looser. He will only keep throw every facts he has and uses his own thinking and interpretation for his favours to discredit and disrespect Susi.
    So I'm afraid this thread will only have the same fate with the thread I've said above.
    If anyone think that he is not an Indonesian ??? well you better think again

    For they who understand bahasa, this is the link of the thread I mention above. Enjoy it
    http://forum.detik.com/all-susi-susa...html?&page=342
    OMG. A true genuine troll!!
    Even his signature was made just to discredit. Kudos!
    Ok. Haters is actually one who envy to the subject he/she hates.

  16. #101
    Regular Member drquick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by naistav View Post
    OMG. A true genuine troll!!
    Even his signature was made just to discredit. Kudos!
    Ok. Haters is actually one who envy to the subject he/she hates.
    Now you know

  17. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    ...To name any player the world best ever, that would certainly invite controversy as players peak in different times/eras.
    Quote Originally Posted by naistav View Post
    ...She may not be the greatest WS, but she is one of the greatest. I don't mind if ZN, GZC, LLW, HA, BSH to be included.
    I disagree with this thread title, but I disagree more to discredit Susi Susanti.
    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    I have great respect for her because she justifies her position as one of the best and no i didnt say she is the greatest.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    ...For me, I would prefer to say that LLW, HAP & Susi are "ranks among the greatest in the history of the women's game" (just like said in theirs wikipedia profile )
    ..this is similar to a mini-almost-useless-banter of a topic such as "LD is the greatest MS player ever"..
    It's very subjective and can trigger disagreements which will lead to you all know what..
    For what it is, it's simple, just change the thread title...

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