Is BAM going in the right direction?

***cobalt*** · 05-30-2012, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

The Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese are not like herds of sheep to be led by one strong leader. If Li Yong Bo and Park are soley responsible for China's and Japan's success, then what happens when they pass away from the scene? Just look at China's Table Tennis story. They have had many changes of coaches, players, and officials, and also rules that were changed to enable other countries to have a fighting chance.
It is the people who make it possible. With good raw material one can make first class products. Without, it is very difficult and impossible if you are aiming to be no. 1.
Why all the anger in Malaysia and Indonesia over their recent Thomas Cup and Uber Cup performances?
Such anger is unjustified if you look at it from a more pragmatic perspective. It is unjustified expectation of false successes that were not there that lead to such bitterness.

"It is people who make it possible." But don't stop halfway, just because it suits your agenda for pressing your point. "With good raw material one can make first class products." Then other "people who make it possible" take the "raw material" and provide the infrastructure and quality control to "process" the "raw material" into the "finished product." So, you need "people to make it possible" all the way.

That is what CBA has done so well, and other countries have failed at doing for any sustained length of time. The reasons for the failure lie in the political system, corrpution and changing values and priorities among the classes and masses, but you don't want to acknowledge this fact, again because it possibly does not gel with your agenda to pursue the silly juvenile DNA theory, which you find difficult to back away from, now.

Anger in Malaysia and Indonesia? That is good. At least they are not controlled sheep numbering over a billion. Anger is justified when they see what their people in power have done, or undone. Anger can fuel change. Ask the survivors of repression through centuries of successive dynasties.

Lastly, you may need to be reminded that China badminton rose to pre-eminent position only after certain wise and skilled people from way south of the China border made the journey there, taking with them all the knowledge they had imbibed over time in Indonesia and Malaya. Another nail in the China-DNA-theory coffin. That they needed to make the journey at all is the tragic story of mankind, repeated every few years. And it will happen again. Even in places a lot of us smugly don't anticipate it to ever happen.

***kwun*** · 05-30-2012, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie

I read your post and my reply is not intended nor directed at you but rather, as an ex-malaysian, I am disgusted seeing the resources/funding being mismanaged and the stooges running this BAM show are still there, like tidak apa attitude, business as usual. As for individuals with no hidden agenda, we can agree that it is not at all possible in Malaysia, never has been and never will be, just the way it has always been...bet my buck 49 sens on this

to be fair and honest, even LYB has hidden agendas. but at least he understands that success comes first, agenda come later. when there are results to show, fans are less critical of whatever agendas they have, they will let them earn their millions and the fans will still cheer for them.

when they are failures, then fans will start to find faults, and they will find anything to blame for the failures.

so basically, be smart, show results.

**Gigabit** · 05-30-2012, 01:10 AM

If China did not win UC this time, LYB may have to go. Supremo or not supremo. Result comes 1st. He was very tense when WYH almost going to lose to SJH. I

***kwun*** · 05-30-2012, 01:10 AM

DNA theory is fine and dandy. but at the end of the day, having all the best DNA is useless unless someone comes in to discovery them. and to do that requires a system in place. China has one of the best nation wide grass root badminton training system from village to city to province to national team. talents are discovered and groomed from very early on. add that to a pool of over a billion people, that's where they discover the Lin Dan and Li Xuerui.

***cobalt*** · 05-30-2012, 01:21 AM

If I were a Malaysian, I would not want to demand that the 3 stooges vacate their chairs in BAM. Better the known devil than the unknown one.

I would instead, demand that they be made accountable and responsible for results, long-term and short-term. And for all programs put in place, and for all money spent.

And if the results are not commensurate, I would have them publicly stripped of all their titles and privileges. I would have them summoned daily by auditors to explain their actions and decisions, especially ones that had no logic, reasoning or direction. And finally when their explanations are insufficient, I would have them arrested for misuse of public office.

That is public accountability in action. It breeds responsibility. That will bring in professionalism. Which will give results.

But this is all a dream...

**extremenanopowe** · 05-30-2012, 01:29 AM

Maybe maybe.. The Malaysian team depends a lot on luck.

The luck is on discovery of LCW. Who is next?

**Pakito** · 05-30-2012, 04:10 AM

If it weren't for the media putting the spotlight on BAM, I don't think the president would even say 'we are open to suggestions'.

I guess the happiest person now is no other than Misbun Sidek. He may not be happy about the state of Malaysian badminton, but at least people get to see and read about how BAM is doing now and people can get at least a certain perspective on BAM (Badminton-Acquiring-Money-Management).

Taneepak has given many BCers a chance to set up a firing squad. Thank you taneepak.

**extremenanopowe** · 05-30-2012, 04:17 AM

someone have to be the bad guy anyway. Aint we want it? Lolthats why pple come back. Role playing.

**pBmMalaysia** · 05-30-2012, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by kwun

DNA theory is fine and dandy. but at the end of the day, having all the best DNA is useless unless someone comes in to discovery them. and to do that requires a system in place. China has one of the best nation wide grass root badminton training system from village to city to province to national team. talents are discovered and groomed from very early on. add that to a pool of over a billion people, that's where they discover the Lin Dan and Li Xuerui.

Yes, beside the talents discovered, it's all about the system.

What taneepak has posted is only the tip of the ice berg.

If china has been doing a great job with plenty of good material,

why is there only one Lin Dan ?

For the past 2 to 3 years, li yong Bo has been trying so hard

until his butt ached just to keep Lin Dan on the move.

**limsy** · 05-30-2012, 04:41 AM

the fact is china is getting weaker and weaker in junior championship
their ws didnt win wjc for 3 years(and they wont win this year,even if ratchanok or tai tzuying didnt play)
their ms didnt win wjc for 3 years(and they wont win this year)
not to mention their md.(and they wont win this year)
they are a force in xd not because of the male player,its because their women double player.
the only title that china are certain to win nowadays in junior circuit is women double

but the thing is cba manage to turn this around in senior stage!
thats the different between cba and bam or pbsi

**OneToughBirdie** · 05-30-2012, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by kwun

DNA theory is fine and dandy. but at the end of the day, having all the best DNA is useless unless someone comes in to discovery them. and to do that requires a system in place. China has one of the best nation wide grass root badminton training system from village to city to province to national team. talents are discovered and groomed from very early on. add that to a pool of over a billion people, that's where they discover the Lin Dan and Li Xuerui.

Originally Posted by cobalt

"It is people who make it possible." But don't stop halfway, just because it suits your agenda for pressing your point. "With good raw material one can make first class products." Then other "people who make it possible" take the "raw material" and provide the infrastructure and quality control to "process" the "raw material" into the "finished product." So, you need "people to make it possible" all the way.

That is what CBA has done so well, and other countries have failed at doing for any sustained length of time. The reasons for the failure lie in the political system, corrpution and changing values and priorities among the classes and masses, but you don't want to acknowledge this fact, again because it possibly does not gel with your agenda to pursue the silly juvenile DNA theory, which you find difficult to back away from, now.

Anger in Malaysia and Indonesia? That is good. At least they are not controlled sheep numbering over a billion. Anger is justified when they see what their people in power have done, or undone. Anger can fuel change. Ask the survivors of repression through centuries of successive dynasties.

Lastly, you may need to be reminded that China badminton rose to pre-eminent position only after certain wise and skilled people from way south of the China border made the journey there, taking with them all the knowledge they had imbibed over time in Indonesia and Malaya. Another nail in the China-DNA-theory coffin. That they needed to make the journey at all is the tragic story of mankind, repeated every few years. And it will happen again. Even in places a lot of us smugly don't anticipate it to ever happen.

I intended to make a post previously but deleted as I had something urgent to do. I couldn't write better than what you two had posted above. One thing I would add is CHN has the perfect environment for badminton and table tennis to flourish, fudning, training system and playing partners (the training sessions are like mini tourney with top players) and the players, whether willingly and unwillingly, are united as one (whatever LYB say, goes) to glorify the nation, which would not fly in MAS, INA, KOR, DEN. Hard to beat a country blessed with all these positives....except once in a blue moon, the rest of the world would come up with a LCW, TH, LYD who can give CHN hiccups.

**OneToughBirdie** · 05-30-2012, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia

Yes, beside the talents discovered, it's all about the system.

What taneepak has posted is only the tip of the ice berg.

If china has been doing a great job with plenty of good material,

why is there only one Lin Dan ?

For the past 2 to 3 years, li yong Bo has been trying so hard

until his butt ached just to keep Lin Dan on the move.

Honestly to be fair, if the majority of baddy fans, including PG, concur LD is the best player (in terms of accomplishment) in the history of badminton or the best player CHN has produced, as great a job that CHN has done, it is not that simple or easy to find another one. LD is blessed with all the tools (mental, instinct, speed, power, defense, etc) needed to be what he is today, perhaps the best weapon LD has is his health (forget about those questionable WO), I could not even recall seeing LD wear a knee brace and that's one clue, he can seemingly take a hiatus (EAG) and train/speed up his game when big OLY comes, and maintain his position in world badminton winning 16 majors in 10 years or so. Prior to LD, I would say ZJH is the best player I had seen, but ZJH did not have the health or consistency like LD.

***kwun*** · 05-30-2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia

Yes, beside the talents discovered, it's all about the system.

What taneepak has posted is only the tip of the ice berg.

If china has been doing a great job with plenty of good material,

why is there only one Lin Dan ?

For the past 2 to 3 years, li yong Bo has been trying so hard

until his butt ached just to keep Lin Dan on the move.

there is only one Lin Dan because the best of the best DNA are still rare to find despite the huge pool. but there are lots of Chen Long, Chen Jin, Bao Chunlai, Xia Xuanze, Sun Jun, etc, etc, who are already good enough to beat most other players. during which the other country may have only discovered 1 or 2. (DEN: PG, INA: TH, KOR: LHI, MAS: LCW, WCH), China has one competitive one every 3-4 years.

***cobalt*** · 05-30-2012, 01:35 PM

Maybe just once in a generation, or 3, 4 or 5 generations, along comes a person who is so exceptional and gifted that he makes other players look physically impaired. But that is just it - he is the absolute exception. So many attributes need to come together in just the right mix and intensity, to form this stellium of power: physical traits; mental strength; tremendous focus; monumental motivation; complete faith in an ideal; unshakeable confidence; love for the game.

And along the way, so many things could have gone wrong. He could have become a piano player; any incident could have affected his physical condition; a fit of temper could have cost him his place in a regional team. He could have been born maybe 500 kms south somewhere outside China, and never had the infrastructure and support system to allow him to rise, and rise, and rise...

This is an example of destiny. Where no matter how many wrongs you may commit, it all turns out right in the end. And where your path will be cleared and eased whenever it matters the most, just as long as you focus on doing what you are supposed to do. Which of course, Lin Dan does very well!

Here is another player who possessed all of the above attributes, but somewhere along the way, lost a couple of them: motivation and complete faith in an ideal. That is the moment Taufik began his slide, not because of physical injury.

And yet another player who had all the attributes intact, but was unfortunate to be born 500 kms south of where he would have achieved everything he ever set himself out to do. That is the sad story of LCW.

Lin Dan was born in a certain place at a particular time, and he got CBA. Chong Wei was born at another place at another time, and he got BAM. That is destiny.

**pBmMalaysia** · 05-30-2012, 07:28 PM

Yes, Cobalt in the end it's destiny.

The system however, plays the most important part,
starting in the grassroots program.

Most coaches here are given short contract to produce results or else ..
I think you dont have to hear the rest.

The running of this program and that of the back up and elite group
are totally different.
Coaches here are like the QC managers,
they sleep or play politics, the end product will suffer.

And Kwun, China is close to producing one in every 3 to 4 years
whereas Malaysia is somewhere 8 to 9 years, according to Misbun.

**extremenanopowe** · 05-30-2012, 09:12 PM

Bros,

Statistically, most clubs and association make a loss due payments to Directors. Just take a look at the football leagues around the world. This is just to manage some expectations a little. Just to let you know that it is normal to get the money sucked out of the system. It is a case of who is there first to get the loot.

If it is not you, then it has to be those smart or lucky fellas. They are thick skin and they are smiling their way to the bank and next generations for themselves. The rich gets richer. Agree? lol

**taneepak** · 05-31-2012, 12:28 AM

If every race has an equal quota of facilities and resources, the role of dna in sports will become more obvious.
Black people have a dna that gives them more strength in bone density and muscles and speed. In sports of sheer speed and strength blacks will stand out, provided that all races are given equal opportunities and resources. Sports like athletics, football, rugby, basketball, etc are some examples.
But there are many types of sports, some requiring brains like badminton and table tennis and the manipulation of time to wrong foot opponents. In such sports blacks do not do well.
Indians are not considered blacks medically but Caucasians.
That is the physical attributes. There are also the culture of the people and the different dimensional perspective of each culture. Westerners do not see the meaning of new information from a whole big picture but wait for the complete stringing of the words or alphabets to "see". East Asians "see" the complete picture and gives the meaning of a "picture is worth a thousand words" something t think about.
This is why East Asians can progress at such astounding rates that defy imagination, provided there is no war.