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  1. #596
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Here is one area of contradiction Malaysia has to look into. At the juniors levels Malaysia has always been one of the top countries in the boys, both singles and in particular in doubles. So based on this very narrow base to work on the country looks very good at the grass root level. However, when it comes to the international senior level the country simply cannot make it. Now the leap from "boys" to "men" separates the boys who never grow up and the men who have nobody to depend except their own grit and personal character to make it.Perhaps this could be one area to take a look at. If not, channeling additional resources to the grass roots to achieve the same type of achievements the current crop of juniors are seeing will meet the same Waterloo at the senior level.This giant leap from boys to men is not as easy as we think. Here is where the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese excel.
    From your point of view what could be the reason knowing BAM did get the best coaches there is for the men's department ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I read that many Malaysian BCers wish to have LYB as a coach for Malaysia. But, how long would he stay in Malaysia?

    My guess - He wouldn't last long; perhaps just weeks.
    .
    Dude, money talkes, that depends on how much money is coming in...if LYB can be like tidak apa Encik yawning Rashid Sidek and pay big bucks to go with the flow, why not take the money and not improving malaysian baddy...kill 2 birdies with 1 stone, i.e. get paid and not producing anything

  3. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    A closer example is Singapore, which knows a good thing when it sees one. It genuinely tries to attract such brains. Examples are like smart Malaysian Chinese to provide a continuous stream, the 'Blue Collar" immigration Plan for Hong Kong some years back, and an attempt to lure almost all of Hong Kong's tycoons many years back prior to HK's handover to China. This may not be politically correct but it makes sense. Do you think your country would do this? This is how Malaysians and BAM should do-think rationally and don't look foolish blaming everybody.
    Of course Malaysia can do that, after all Malaysia Boleh slogan says it all. Malaysia outdo Singapore when it comes to importing foreign talents, hands down...that tiny island SG only imported a few thousands of those chaps from Malaysia and HK, anyway, MAS do not need those fellas anyway, SG can have them, please take them. Just in case you are not aware, MAS during Tun Mahathir times, imported >1 million Indonesian as I was told, and it bear fruits right away, Barisan won election landslide. Talking about instant results, SG cannot top that....MAS Boleh
    P/N I do respect what you write, thoughtful, even though I may not agree with you on everything but most of everything.

  4. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    Credit should be given to li yong bo also,

    for he plays a very important part beside those coaches.

    And yes, ZJH taught the world how to play badminton!

    Seeing is believing!
    Bingo! you hit the nail on the head. The right coach and the right player, they complement each other, I would say coach 30%, player 70%.

    But I venture to say,Li Yongbo's greatest contribution isn't in the skills training, he leaves that to the coaches under him who are even more skillful than him esp in coaching singles such as Tang Xianhu and Zhang Ning. I believe LYB's specialty which so far no one else can compare, Park JB or Morten Frost, may have to do with his management style,his talent-spotting ability, his relationship-building,his character traits eg analytical,boldness,creativity,decisiveness,method ical,leadership,thoroughness..., plus the "X" factor which only he knows. If you can ever bring him over, I'm sure his pre-condition is give him a free hand.

    " And yes, ZJH taught the world how to play badminton! " - to quote you. Let me add,now it is Lin Dan ! - in concurrence with OneToughBirdie

  5. #600
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    Bingo! you hit the nail on the head. The right coach and the right player, they complement each other, I would say coach 30%, player 70%.

    But I venture to say,Li Yongbo's greatest contribution isn't in the skills training, he leaves that to the coaches under him who are even more skillful than him esp in coaching singles such as Tang Xianhu and Zhang Ning. I believe LYB's specialty which so far no one else can compare, Park JB or Morten Frost, may have to do with his management style,his talent-spotting ability, his relationship-building,his character traits eg analytical,boldness,creativity,decisiveness,method ical,leadership,thoroughness..., plus the "X" factor which only he knows. If you can ever bring him over, I'm sure his pre-condition is give him a free hand.

    " And yes, ZJH taught the world how to play badminton! " - to quote you. Let me add,now it is Lin Dan ! - in concurrence with OneToughBirdie
    LYB? He adhered to the ideology of the party. Nothing more, nothing less. He was the facilitator. Of course, his unique mix of attributes made him well suited for the job. But make no mistake, its not LYB, it is the system he represents.

    Agree with pBm about ZJH; he was something else!

    Also, it is good to remember that MF, Park JB, et al achieved what they did with much less resources and talent at thier disposal than CBA; so I wouldn't ever dismiss their capability. What actually diffrentiates them from LYB is just 2 things: resources, and ideology. Give LYB to BAM the way it has been for so long, I suspect he will do much worse than his predecessors.

    But IMNVHO, none of them can help MAS badminton the way things are now.

  6. #601
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    BAM is going the wrong way for sure. LYB has his own way of doing things. Sometimes is it bad but
    RESULTS is what he wants.

    BAM wants RESULTS.. but no one wants to give in.

  7. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Here is one area of contradiction Malaysia has to look into. At the juniors levels Malaysia has always been one of the top countries in the boys, both singles and in particular in doubles. So based on this very narrow base to work on the country looks very good at the grass root level.
    However, when it comes to the international senior level the country simply cannot make it.
    Now the leap from "boys" to "men" separates the boys who never grow up and the men who have nobody to depend except their own grit and personal character to make it.
    Perhaps this could be one area to take a look at. If not, channeling additional resources to the grass roots to achieve the same type of achievements the current crop of juniors are seeing will meet the same Waterloo at the senior level.
    This giant leap from boys to men is not as easy as we think. Here is where the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese excel.
    the reason why youth cant develop is bcos they not trained by top national coach. the youth player only trained by lower coach. i dont agree 1 top national coach for 1 player. i suggest 1 top national coach take 1 senoir and 1 youth player.

  8. #603
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    Some of the inimitable Nadzmi's recent utterances:

    "We need quality coaches who can turn our players from quality internationals into world beaters. In order to do that, our coaches must also train themselves to become better,"
    I'm just an ignorant man in these matters. How does a coach train himself to become better? Does BAM have a secret place they send coaches to, to become better?

    "We have to keep monitoring our competitors and regularly upgrade and we cannot prepare in isolation."
    And this is somethng BAM has not ever thought of doing yet?

    "The Thomas Cup has given us a fair picture of how the other teams have progressed and we have to ask ourselves whether we are training (our players) accordingly."
    And the Asian Games, BAC, dozens of SS and SSP tournaments over the past 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or more years could not provide that "fair picture"? And part 2 of the question: who cares how much the others have progressed! How much have you progressed??

    “In the long run, however, we will focus on grassroots development."
    Oh. So, grassroots development wasn't really on the agenda so far?

    “We also need to unearth more talents like Chong Wei."
    You're not serious!! Why on earth would you want to do that, when you've not seen the need so far? Anyway, what do you intend to do after you've "unearthed" the talent? Do a ZZ on him, maybe?

    Here is what pBmMalaysia wrote in post #542 on page 32:

    "The system however, plays the most important part,
    starting in the grassroots program.
    "Most coaches here are given short contract to produce results or else ..
    I think you dont have to hear the rest.
    "The running of this program and that of the back up and elite group
    are totally different."

    So there's the solution for Nadzmi! Find an international-quality coach who can turn out world-beaters as well as monitor competitors, and also improve the grassroots system and unearth a string of mini-LCWs. And get this superman coach to sign a long-term contract with the BAM we know.

  9. #604
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    PS: it was KLRC (not BAM) who unearthed ZZ

    And....weren't Rexy, Park Joo Bong, Morten Frost all considered world-class coaches? But BAM chose to settle for Tan Kim Her (hasn't done him doing anything good for the MD side since he became the head coach for the doubles division last year) and Pang (again, nothing significant we can see from Koo/Tan since they requested to be trained by him).

  10. #605
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    Cool Bullseye

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Some of the inimitable Nadzmi's recent utterances:

    "We need quality coaches who can turn our players from quality internationals into world beaters. In order to do that, our coaches must also train themselves to become better,"
    I'm just an ignorant man in these matters. How does a coach train himself to become better? Does BAM have a secret place they send coaches to, to become better?

    "We have to keep monitoring our competitors and regularly upgrade and we cannot prepare in isolation."
    And this is somethng BAM has not ever thought of doing yet?

    "The Thomas Cup has given us a fair picture of how the other teams have progressed and we have to ask ourselves whether we are training (our players) accordingly."
    And the Asian Games, BAC, dozens of SS and SSP tournaments over the past 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or more years could not provide that "fair picture"? And part 2 of the question: who cares how much the others have progressed! How much have you progressed??

    “In the long run, however, we will focus on grassroots development."
    Oh. So, grassroots development wasn't really on the agenda so far?

    “We also need to unearth more talents like Chong Wei."
    You're not serious!! Why on earth would you want to do that, when you've not seen the need so far? Anyway, what do you intend to do after you've "unearthed" the talent? Do a ZZ on him, maybe?

    Here is what pBmMalaysia wrote in post #542 on page 32:

    "The system however, plays the most important part,
    starting in the grassroots program.
    "Most coaches here are given short contract to produce results or else ..
    I think you dont have to hear the rest.
    "The running of this program and that of the back up and elite group
    are totally different."

    So there's the solution for Nadzmi! Find an international-quality coach who can turn out world-beaters as well as monitor competitors, and also improve the grassroots system and unearth a string of mini-LCWs. And get this superman coach to sign a long-term contract with the BAM we know.
    LOL, I really like this post. Took the words right out of my mouth.

  11. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    PS: it was KLRC (not BAM) who unearthed ZZ

    And....weren't Rexy, Park Joo Bong, Morten Frost all considered world-class coaches? But BAM chose to settle for Tan Kim Her (hasn't done him doing anything good for the MD side since he became the head coach for the doubles division last year) and Pang (again, nothing significant we can see from Koo/Tan since they requested to be trained by him).
    You are right. They all left. None will say that they all left in good spirits.

    About the issue of Koo/Tan, Pang is not solely to be blamed. You can't play good doubles if you are not friends off the court.

  12. #607
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Here is one area of contradiction Malaysia has to look into. At the juniors levels Malaysia has always been one of the top countries in the boys, both singles and in particular in doubles. So based on this very narrow base to work on the country looks very good at the grass root level.
    However, when it comes to the international senior level the country simply cannot make it.
    Now the leap from "boys" to "men" separates the boys who never grow up and the men who have nobody to depend except their own grit and personal character to make it.
    Perhaps this could be one area to take a look at. If not, channeling additional resources to the grass roots to achieve the same type of achievements the current crop of juniors are seeing will meet the same Waterloo at the senior level.
    This giant leap from boys to men is not as easy as we think. Here is where the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese excel.
    Let's remind ourselves that before this, even from a long time ago when the boys wanted to leap into men, aka LCW, he was fortunate to had the help and support of Morten Frost who had the keen and observant eye to spot LCW and adamantly fought for our dear champion to be recruited into BAM, but alas it was BAM who felt that LCW was too short and tiny and not athletic-built aka not suitable for competitive badminton. How wrong they were! It was none other than BAM who rejected him in the first place. If it weren't for Morten, LCW would not be in the system! This is where the problem lies. Now BAM is saying they need more grassroot-building. We have been saying that for years! Now only they want to admit about it. But don't forget, you need another talent too. Talent-spotting. Le't hope that won't happen again when another LCW comes around, hopefully sooner than we think and hope that this replacement is about 15 years old and not 5. If it is 5, then we can all sleep at the moment. Maybe watch hockey which I hate.
    Last edited by Pakito; 06-04-2012 at 11:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakito View Post
    About the issue of Koo/Tan, Pang is not solely to be blamed. You can't play good doubles if you are not friends off the court.
    question? out of nowhere, how Pang become coach for this pair..?

  14. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by riffsuad View Post
    question? out of nowhere, how Pang become coach for this pair..?
    In a nutshell, Koo/Tan specifically requested him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I read that many Malaysian BCers wish to have LYB as a coach for Malaysia. But, how long would he stay in Malaysia?

    My guess - He wouldn't last long; perhaps just weeks.
    .
    Correct me if I'm wrong, LYB is too patriotic for money to be bought. Besides, China will see this as a defection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riffsuad View Post
    question? out of nowhere, how Pang become coach for this pair..?
    try to search for the answer in others thread
    but it isn't a positive one

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    Quote Originally Posted by riffsuad View Post
    the reason why youth cant develop is bcos they not trained by top national coach. the youth player only trained by lower coach. i dont agree 1 top national coach for 1 player. i suggest 1 top national coach take 1 senoir and 1 youth player.
    Ions ago, Misbun already suggested a program with coach, pysio,physical trainer to train up youngsters. Team must be available. All these years BAM did not show any inclination in implementing this. However good the coach is, they dont make final. Li Mao was pissed with the bureaucracy, LYB,hahaha, he will flip.
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 06-05-2012 at 12:34 AM.

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