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  1. #1055
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    I do not feel that it is that difficult to separate the two roles, BAM management and the Director of Coaching (DOC).
    BAM has much wider authority and it empowers the DOC a specific area of responsibility with the necessary authority.
    The problem, if any, is the role of the DOC. This is because a DOC has just one job, and a big one. THis may surprise some of you. The DOC's sole role is to develop and improve coaches so that players maximize their potential at all age. Does this role suit Park Joo-bong, considering his contract is only for 3 years? Can he hire and fire any coach to attain his objective? What are Park Joo-bong's own minimum requirements or power he should be demanding from BAM to be an effective DOC? To come in blind with too many loose ends to be resolved when problems crop up (playing by ear) is often the reason for playing the blame game when the DOC does not perform to expectation. This is one main reason why coaches who fail use as an 'escape' because he was not given enough power.

  2. #1056
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    Assuming that you have nip the problem in the bud, what is the solution then? What do you propose to counter this problem of:

    1. Park Joo Bong's under-qualified experience for the job
    2. Park Joo Bong short term 3 years is too short a stint
    3. Park Joo Bong coming in blind (how much are sure that he is blind or totally have no idea about how to go about planning?)
    4. Coaches who fail because he is not given enough power (yes that is what we have been saying for ages because of too many cooks spoiling the broth). What you are bringing up is redundant. So what do you suggest?
    5. Can he fire or hire coaches. (again this is up to BAM, this remains to be seen). If you are saying this is a problem, then virtually anyone in this position as a coach will foresee the same problem, not only Park Joo Bong.

    I think I speak a lot for the badminton community who feels that the person in charge should be a technical person ie a coach, and not a corporate fella. Sure this coach answers to BAM, but at least, squares go to squares, circles go to circles. The head coach should be given enough authority that he can at least do his job without unnecessary meddling.

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    I do not feel that it is that difficult to separate the two roles, BAM management and the Director of Coaching (DOC).
    BAM has much wider authority and it empowers the DOC a specific area of responsibility with the necessary authority.
    The problem, if any, is the role of the DOC. This is because a DOC has just one job, and a big one. THis may surprise some of you. The DOC's sole role is to develop and improve coaches so that players maximize their potential at all age. Does this role suit Park Joo-bong, considering his contract is only for 3 years? Can he hire and fire any coach to attain his objective? What are Park Joo-bong's own minimum requirements or power he should be demanding from BAM to be an effective DOC? To come in blind with too many loose ends to be resolved when problems crop up (playing by ear) is often the reason for playing the blame game when the DOC does not perform to expectation. This is one main reason why coaches who fail use as an 'escape' because he was not given enough power.

  3. #1057
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    I do not feel that it is that difficult to separate the two roles, BAM management and the Director of Coaching (DOC).
    BAM has much wider authority and it empowers the DOC a specific area of responsibility with the necessary authority.
    The problem, if any, is the role of the DOC. This is because a DOC has just one job, and a big one. THis may surprise some of you. The DOC's sole role is to develop and improve coaches so that players maximize their potential at all age. Does this role suit Park Joo-bong, considering his contract is only for 3 years? Can he hire and fire any coach to attain his objective? What are Park Joo-bong's own minimum requirements or power he should be demanding from BAM to be an effective DOC? To come in blind with too many loose ends to be resolved when problems crop up (playing by ear) is often the reason for playing the blame game when the DOC does not perform to expectation. This is one main reason why coaches who fail use as an 'escape' because he was not given enough power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakito View Post
    Assuming that you have nip the problem in the bud, what is the solution then? What do you propose to counter this problem of:

    1. Park Joo Bong's under-qualified experience for the job
    2. Park Joo Bong short term 3 years is too short a stint
    3. Park Joo Bong coming in blind (how much are sure that he is blind or totally have no idea about how to go about planning?)
    4. Coaches who fail because he is not given enough power (yes that is what we have been saying for ages because of too many cooks spoiling the broth). What you are bringing up is redundant. So what do you suggest?
    5. Can he fire or hire coaches. (again this is up to BAM, this remains to be seen). If you are saying this is a problem, then virtually anyone in this position as a coach will foresee the same problem, not only Park Joo Bong.

    I think I speak a lot for the badminton community who feels that the person in charge should be a technical person ie a coach, and not a corporate fella. Sure this coach answers to BAM, but at least, squares go to squares, circles go to circles. The head coach should be given enough authority that he can at least do his job without unnecessary meddling.
    I cannot with certainty opine about what Park Joo-bong's job description sheet will be. But, I am certain that he is not suitable to be a true director of coaching, which is a much bigger job. Park will be an excellent coach for a specific area say under the closest thing we have today of a director of coaching, namely the sometimes hated but respected China 'Great One' (not Tong si-fu).

    A DOC's sole job is to develop and improve coaches to maximize the potential of players of all groups, all ages, mainly to achieve long-term success than short-term wins. Yes, the job is like one in a successful corporation where there is a corporate culture with great depth so that there is always backup people to replace old 'champions' at all time.
    Since this is specific to badminton, the DOC must of course have some technical background of the game but often past great players are not necessarily good DOC material because they come up short in other more important areas.
    Maybe, Park Joo-bong will be better off limiting his job sheet to bringing short-term wins to Malaysia's men's singles and doubles for say less than 5-8 years. But a DOC's job is for longer periods of success and this takes time and the power to hire and fire coaches. Hiring and firing coaches and replacing them with better ones may bring better technical gains but this may disrupt the whole team's morale and commitment which may be even more costly and disastrous.
    Take a look at China's 'Special One'. He has been on the job a long time. He has absolute power to hire and fire coaches yet he keeps the team's morale high and committed. Also, do you notice China's style of play? It has not changed because it has been an established playing style culture, which makes upward mobility of players seamless. Once you change a team's playing style every time you get a new chief coach this destroys the culture.

  4. #1058
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    I am sure, if not disillusioned, that one of the main reasons Park is roped in is the hope that he can bring in results and gold for coming Olympics, which is within the time period of your 'short term' 5-8 years. This are the dire demands of BAM in response to public's growing uneasiness and unrest with BAM's lackadaisical attitude bordering on 'neither here nor there' awareness on management. In hindsight, even Nadzmi himself knows that he himself, or the High Performance Team is not up to the job, maybe even a sham in the first place. We all know that DOC's priority is to supply a continuous stock of 'batch talented players' that make the cut as seniors leave the scene to retire, but the fact is BAM has been returning empty handed in terms of 'quantity and quality' players reflecting a dire need of transformation in management after sitting on the management throne for more than 10years. In other words, helming with no real results to shout about. This is why Park is roped in. They need nothing short of a miracle. I'm sure they had considered local coaches but the fact is, BAM's desperation speaks for itself.

    We do not know how long BAM will employ Park, neither do we know the time period specified for Park to bring fruition. If let's say after 1 or 2 years BAM again blows wind in opposite direction for some reason we cannot comprehend, then is it Park's fault? So the main point here is how much time is allocated to Park to produce prototypes.

    On whether Park is suitable for the job, I rather say it is the 'time' factor and not his 'qualification' factor. Do you even know what is paper qualification is as a coach, excluding his achievement as a player? He now has a Phd in sports science. Now you mentioned that in the past, great players do not necessarily turn out to be a great coach. This applies to all sports. But would you rather have a doctor treating a patient, than 'NOT' one treating a sick person. Same applies to sport, although a great player does not necessarily becomes a great teacher, so does that mean that all past great players are automatically given that sentence? You might want to ask yourself where you are heading with this 'conclusion' here. Or perhaps you are saying BAM should in fact be spending the $$$ on their own cronies.

    You mentioned hiring and firing coaches disrupts team morale and commitment. I am surprised to hear that coming from you, a high ranking manager managing a big firm as human resource coming and going is a natural part of the scenario of a corporate sector. First of all, in any post, the respect for the person given the mandate to manage the coaching activities is utterly critical for work to be carried out, without which morale will dip. In fact it is the person(s) given the authority to handle but yet possessing no proper technical skills and experience whom players will not place respect on, hence the dip in morale and commitment which you mentioned. Still, I thank you for your contribution as now a little more picture is painted with your paint brush.

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    I cannot with certainty opine about what Park Joo-bong's job description sheet will be. But, I am certain that he is not suitable to be a true director of coaching, which is a much bigger job. Park will be an excellent coach for a specific area say under the closest thing we have today of a director of coaching, namely the sometimes hated but respected China 'Great One' (not Tong si-fu).

    A DOC's sole job is to develop and improve coaches to maximize the potential of players of all groups, all ages, mainly to achieve long-term success than short-term wins. Yes, the job is like one in a successful corporation where there is a corporate culture with great depth so that there is always backup people to replace old 'champions' at all time.
    Since this is specific to badminton, the DOC must of course have some technical background of the game but often past great players are not necessarily good DOC material because they come up short in other more important areas.
    Maybe, Park Joo-bong will be better off limiting his job sheet to bringing short-term wins to Malaysia's men's singles and doubles for say less than 5-8 years. But a DOC's job is for longer periods of success and this takes time and the power to hire and fire coaches. Hiring and firing coaches and replacing them with better ones may bring better technical gains but this may disrupt the whole team's morale and commitment which may be even more costly and disastrous.
    Take a look at China's 'Special One'. He has been on the job a long time. He has absolute power to hire and fire coaches yet he keeps the team's morale high and committed. Also, do you notice China's style of play? It has not changed because it has been an established playing style culture, which makes upward mobility of players seamless. Once you change a team's playing style every time you get a new chief coach this destroys the culture.
    Last edited by Pakito; 10-07-2012 at 07:47 AM.

  5. #1059
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    Well we all know Park Joo-bong was in Malaysia before and the results and subsequent standard of badminton speaks for itself. It is pointless blaming the other party for not achieving because a DOC, if he is worth his salt, would have negotiated all the terms of his employment before taking up the offer.
    An ex-champion plus a Phd in sports science do not guarantee a good DOC. A good DOC should also be tops in interpersonal skills with coaches and the BAM management, and this requires great problem solving ability and managing disagreements.
    Take a look at China, Korea and even Taiwan. They seem to have a consistent culture style of play with consistent performance from one generation to the next. Malaysia brings in one coach like Li Mao and then he leaves and Misbun takes over, resulting in a 'culture' shock in style for play for LCW. Now if you bring in another coach for LCW with a different culture there will be no seamless mobility from one generation to the next.
    Perhaps, Park is best for short term problem for a temporary fix but future generation must then follow his style. Also whatever culture style for Malaysia must be suitable for Malaysians, using their strengths and minimizing their weaknesses. Power play and fighting spirit are not Malaysia's forte, so it best to adopt a style more suited to Malaysians.

  6. #1060
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Power play and fighting spirit are not Malaysia's forte, so it best to adopt a style more suited to Malaysians.
    Somehow I feel it's a mocking, rather than an opinion.

  7. #1061
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3Series View Post
    Somehow I feel it's a mocking, rather than an opinion.
    No, not in the least despite what you feel. Malaysia's strengths are some where else. How about accuracy, foxy, a bit of flamboyance and unpredictability, and excellence in techniques or even patience? Also take what you learn from the 'open house' type of comradeship to the team. The key person to this last one is the DOC but he must have the interpersonal skills and the command of respect from the others.

  8. #1062
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    limsy, I have started off and provided some sort of a crutch for you to join us in the discussion in greater depth. Why the deafening silence? Do you think the solution is to simply kick out the BAM management and for you and your team to take over?

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    if they really want public to start believe they are changing or willing to change(ubah is opposition slogan,wakakaka)
    the 1st thing to do is clear all the aftermath for those misconduct and failure.

    u can change the outfit of proton saga to nissan gtr
    but still slow,because the engine is the same.

    if we achieve better after PJB become DOC than now,it only because of the REGRESSION TOWARD THE AVERAGE (part of the illusion control theory from psychology).

  10. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    limsy, I have started off and provided some sort of a crutch for you to join us in the discussion in greater depth. Why the deafening silence? Do you think the solution is to simply kick out the BAM management and for you and your team to take over?
    Would love to do that... With five figure salary

  11. #1065
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    limsy and others, can you please pull your resources together and come up with problems-I mean real problems like areas in which BAM and Malaysian badminton have not achieved.
    Please identify the goals that have not been achieved but they must be goals that are reasonably expected of Malaysia.
    Do not sidestep the real issues here by talking politics, corruption, etc., etc. because this forum is not about elections 'bull....'. If you go on running riot on 'hot air' and outpouring of deep-seated hatred, then maybe you need to look at yourself closer home and I mean much closer home within your arm's length.
    If you cannot identify the problems then you are out of your depth here. The same applies if you cannot even identify country's badminton goals.

  12. #1066
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    then why dont u tell us what did bam achieved and what goal they reached?
    if u cant even give an example,this mean they yet to achieve or reach any goal.

    its like asking someone to proof 1+1=2
    if u cant proof 1+1 is not 2,then 1+1=2 is correct.no?

  13. #1067
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    Hmmm ... I am just surprised that there are still Malaysians who believed that Malaysia can still win the Thomas Cup /Sudirman Cup /Uber Cup (team events) in the future .... For me, 1992, was a ONE-OFF FLUKE ...

    Note that there will always be one or two exceptional indvidual players emerging (like Lee Chong Wei) BUT as a team with depth and strong in 2nd and 3rd singles and both doubles, capable of winning the cups, nope, I cannot see it ....

    But, like all Malaysians, I enjoy my badminton , just like I enjoy watching English football every weekend while fully accepting the fact that Malaysian football is total CRAP !! Malaysian badminton is heading the same way too ...

    SO, just have fun and enjoy the game, BAM is going down the same hole as FAM ... and there is nothing we can do about it, so long as the POLITICANS are running the show ...
    Last edited by maxout; 10-08-2012 at 02:51 AM.

  14. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    then why dont u tell us what did bam achieved and what goal they reached?
    if u cant even give an example,this mean they yet to achieve or reach any goal.

    its like asking someone to proof 1+1=2
    if u cant proof 1+1 is not 2,then 1+1=2 is correct.no?
    Actually I have no problem with BAM's overall performance. After all it is still one of the top ranked badminton powers in the men's.
    You can forget about Malaysia reclaiming to be world #1 or #2. Unlike in the past when the game was played by a handful of countries and even then by a handful of players in those countries, Malaysia had bragging rights., today the rest of the world has overtaken Malaysia. Is this a surprise?
    Now, since you are the one who says BAM has failed the country please tell us how, where, and how?
    Now, don't 'chicken' out and play the same old game of avoiding answering by asking more irrelevant questions. I am beginning to think there is something missing in your thinking machine.

  15. #1069
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    so who are the one who chicken out?
    i asked u about what had bam achieved,LAST MONTH
    then u disappear for more than one week.
    then i ask u again now,but still u cannot answer.

    u said u have no problem with bam overall performance.
    but u cant even tell us ONE thing that bam done nicely?

  16. #1070
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    or u want to reply the post 949th? which u avoid to give any respond
    since u said u own some big company
    sure u know alot about business and economy.

  17. #1071
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    It is pointless blaming the other party for not achieving because a DOC, if he is worth his salt, would have negotiated all the terms of his employment before taking up the offer.
    I doubt there is anyone is your book that is 'worth his salt', except maybe BAM. How is it that there is not one single 'constructive critism' about BAM from you? As for me, I can say that BAM is good in getting the $$$ in, which is a compliment.

    An ex-champion plus a Phd in sports science do not guarantee a good DOC. A good DOC should also be tops in interpersonal skills with coaches and the BAM management, and this requires great problem solving ability and managing disagreements.
    Kindergarten textbook excerpt. BAM hired Park. So are you disagreeing with BAM?

    Malaysia brings in one coach like Li Mao and then he leaves and Misbun takes over, resulting in a 'culture' shock in style for play for LCW. Now if you bring in another coach for LCW with a different culture there will be no seamless mobility from one generation to the next.
    Some degree a truth there, but bears little weight. Who says LCW did not benefit form Li Mao's coaching. Everyone in this forum knows but you. Go read his book Dare to be a Champion and stop reading Robert Kiyosaki.

    Power play and fighting spirit are not Malaysia's forte, so it best to adopt a style more suited to Malaysians.
    This quote is just an 'over-compartmentalization' and a plain error in CAPITALS. Each individual player has his own style and manner of play, rather than to quote the whole Malaysian nationality. In fact I challenge you to go to the nearest badminton near you and see each player's style of playing and sure you will find a player with power play. Maybe not as polish as LD, but there are certainly around.

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