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  1. #1
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    Default Tactics problems. Hows to learn better??

    I am an advanced player. I can play most shots except maybe the fancy slice shots but everything else I can play. Im fairly fast on court and am intending on training hard etc over summer.

    My main issue I want to improve on is learning tactics. Learning to know what shot to play and when. Ive been told it cannot be taught, it has to be done through experience of playing!!
    Fair enough this may be true but is there any way I can play better and speed up this process. For example on court, is there specifically a thing I should be looking out for and can it be done off court. Would it be possible to study videos to try and learn the tactics aspect of this game.

    My main issue is mixed and not know what shot to play at times but the prob is the videos on youtube are of good level mixed. My standard, the girl 9/10 stands at the front!! and I have to do the rest which I can do but sometimes i'm not sure what shot to play esp if my current shots are being caught out!!

    Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I really wanna kick my brain into gear for badminton.

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    Yep. Your not going to learn how to play mixed properly if the girl just stands at the net. Mixed needs just as much rotation as doubles, the only way to defend effectively is side by side before switching to attack.

    However, chances are at this level, other teams will have just as much of a problem. If their girl also stays at the front, its hugely important to get the attack first because defending front and back will make you lose. Once you have the opportunity, you need to attack down the sides. Don't do drop shots even if you can make them amazingly tight because their girl will nail them (probably). Either smash down the sides or if the man can somehow return them, work on moving him about to one side of the court and create space for a winning smash. Everyone team will be different so you need to work out their weaknesses.

    This isn't going to make you a better player in the long run mind. To do that you need a girl who is just as willing to learn the same tactics too.

  3. #3
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Ever video your own self in tournament or games?

    If you do, just sit back and analyse it.

    Bit by bit you would find something interesting...

    It's discovering your own tactical plan

  4. #4
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    Phil:
    I believe tactics CAN be taught, but they require that a player is NOT on "auto pilot" in a match. The player must be thinking on court, during rallies, before playing shots, making decisions, talking tactics with the partner etc.

    A note on the ladies role in mixed:
    For "standard" mixed, it is important that you encourage your lady partner to remain in the MIDCOURT whenever you are in the rearcourt (or you are defending/neutral in the rally). If she is staying at the "front" as in the forecourt, then this has to change. You cannot play good mixed or improve your standard unless you work together. She needs to take some steps back (if she isn't doing so already). She must also accept, that she is stronger at the front, and that you will win if SHE dominates the net. This is her goal - it should not be forced. She must WANT to dominate the net. Otherwise its not mixed.
    Note: you could play "obstacle" singles... but this isn't mixed. Its rubbish. Unless you are Lee Chong Wei, in which case MAYBE you can pull it off... hmmm...

    For you as the guy, what should you be thinking? Give this some thought:
    A lot of mixed (especially at a club/league standard in this country) is about patience. As the guy, you must be covering 2 thirds of the court (the whole straight side (roughly) and the back cross court corner (but not short midcourt and not in the "centre" of the court unless defending). What is going to be hardest for you to deal with? when you are brought forwards - its tough to get back again - the same is true for your opponent. Thus, half smashes and pushes into the tramlines (straight only) should frustrate your opponent. Once frustrated, he may get sloppy or try something a little "special" like some crap cross court shot. when this happens - BOOM! Your partner is ready and waiting (covering the cross court) to kill the shuttle.

    If your opponents are tactically playing sensibly, they should be doing a similar type of thing with the guy covering the straight tramline (and front court) and the lady covering cross court. If this IS the case, bring the man forwards with fast drops and pushes, and the punch the shuttle past him into the rearcourt. You goal is to outmanoeuvre him, and leave his lady out of it (so she can't take control of the front court). Slow drops are BAD - they will put your lady under pressure.

    If your opponents are playing front and back (strictly) then the opposing man will be susceptible to drives (including cross court drives) because his lady is not in a proper place to cut them out (properly cross court in the midcourt). The lady will also be susceptible to your smashes (her defence should always be pressurised with smashes, more than the man - pressurise his movement).

    Punch clears both straight and cross court are also very useful - but remember after a cross court shot, you and your lady need to swap sides of the court quickly - otherwise don't do it.

    That should be something to think about for the moment.

    When you reach a higher standard (you become faster, your lady becomes "stronger") then you can rely on her more when defending and she will get herself involved at the front as long as you dont lift short. You will not rotate as such - she should still be looking to go forwards - dominating the midcourt forwards. Why? Some people say because the men are stronger at the back. This is not as relevant, in my opinion, as the fact that the woman is normally FAR superior in the front court (at a high level). She is the one that will dominate the match, make those difficult net kills - this will win you the match. Being a powerful rearcourt male helps, but it won't work without a good partner.

    Food for thought

    Matt

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    what kind of advance level are we talking about , it is recreational -advanced or club-advanced ? anyway if you got a mix partner that are also at a higher club level , they will know how to position them self and cover the court (mostly the front) very efficiently. but in mixed doubles the prime strategy would be you be at the back attacking and the lady at the front attacking the net. In defensive mode - the lady should be able to cover her side but anything down the centre or towards her backhand is usually for the man. If she was attacking from the back and you were at the front , then an experience female player would be able to switch by attempting a half court smash or drop where she would rush to the front.

    tips: straight drive down the line is very effective when the opponent lady is at the front.
    mid-court shots are effective as well (especially when returning serve)
    avoid clear the shuttle and if you have to aims towards the gents backhand.
    X-court clear is a no-no
    everything should be tight and fast as the other lady is at the front thus less time for her to react
    diagonal smash to the lady hip (left side if right handed) is ++ ..but if your smash is not as fast and steep than a straight smash would be more appropriate

    I cant think of anymore off top of my head ..it would all come back to me when I get on court and get into the situation

    stick to those tips and it should get you a few more points in XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSeeley View Post
    Phil:
    I believe tactics CAN be taught, but they require that a player is NOT on "auto pilot" in a match. The player must be thinking on court, during rallies, before playing shots, making decisions, talking tactics with the partner etc.
    Hi Matt, "thinking" is something I'd been pondering about quite a bit recently. How much thinking is enough? I'd start a new thread on this topic, and post my thinking...

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    Quote Originally Posted by staiger View Post
    what kind of advance level are we talking about , it is recreational -advanced or club-advanced ?
    Link to his videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/gingerphil79

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    Quote Originally Posted by staiger View Post
    what kind of advance level are we talking about , it is recreational -advanced or club-advanced ?
    That's a good question

    And yes, tactical game for recreational and club level are not the same.

    In recreational level defense, sending the bird high and deep to the baseline

    will get your opponent in trouble if they try to smash and

    the one standing guarding in the front court, bored to death

    In attack, use sudden drop or lob again,

    will get their legs all twisted,

    Or sudden smash into the centre will cause some rackets breaking

    Here, of course its true only if the skills mentioned are perfected

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Brave man to post himself

    FWIW, I think you need to play harder games than those videos. The rallies are really very short so that doesn't help you learn tactics. You need to play against those players who use the shuttle to probe, change angle, change speed and can return your smashes.

    If you refer to mixed and the level of play is such that the lady cannot do clears or defend a smash, then this is not advanced level. Tactics for such games will be different. Just keep the shuttle going downwards to get the lift. Mixed is the most difficult to play well.

  10. #10
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    phil, for your level the tactics will not be the same as at world class (as you say), in fact there are a big range of tactics even at world class, a lot of Asian pairs play more as 2 players with little emphasis on the strengths/weakness of the sexes, this is why European pairs made up of two relatively physically weak players can do well in mixed versus levels.

    If your woman stays on the "T" you have to work around that. Control will be key.

    At many lower levels (low county / league) the women are several levels lower than the man (a result of there being far more strong men playing seriousley and at higher levels, not a criticism of women) , as such the game can then be all about keeping the opposing man out of the game and attacking/stretching the woman. In such games you should expect to dominate the opposing woman's serve if it is weak and may want to vary your serve greatly to the woman (low and wide, flick, drive) to gain a weak return which you can punish.

    A good thing to keep reminding your partner is that if she plays a net shot do not let the opposing woman play a net shot back, so get the racket up, kill the shuttle, brush it down, knock it down crosscourt but under no circumstances let them play a net shot back which will result in your side lifting and losing control.


    When you're attacking how does the opposing pair defend? Does the woman stay centre net, go cross net or go sides. Adjust your shots accordingly. Be patient in attack and wait for a poor lift before smashing. If your woman goes out to the side to try and kill the shuttle at net move your base up and try to cover the opposite side forecourt.

    Make a list of some simple prompts for considering opponents strengths/weakness e.g.

    Where do they hold their racket in defence?
    WHat are their favourite serves/returns?
    What does the woman do if flicked?

    Any practice can be made gamelike and include a tactical element: e.g.

    2 attackers/2 side by side defenders, rear attack player hits drops to centre defenders lift various angles (high/ low side to side) when you get weak lift smash at the woman.

    Same thing but after 3 lifts minimum defenders try to put in a net/push and attacking woman goes for kill

    Practice 4 shot rallies -eg always flick serve the receiving woman and develop different stategies- woman hits down and rushes in etc.

    Hope that helps

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