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  1. #154
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    even fifa admits there is no 100% fail safe guarantee even with the 2 new systems (goalref and hawkeye *together*) in soccer ...

  2. #155
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    Default incorrect over-rule - a most definite no-no

    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    it was rare to see an incorrect overrule.
    Not as rare. The umpire was Håkan Fossto (SWE, retiring 2012) you are talking about, who is considered by his peers to be a very good umpire. I doubt if his superiors informed him about this during the end-of-day or next-day briefing.

    Making a correct call wrong is a definite no-no in my book - this is influencing the outcome of that rally. It appears that Umpire Fossto made the correction based on his belief that he correctly saw the shuttle land outside the court.

    Which just demonstrates that it is extremely difficult to judge the fact from the umpire's chair on such shots, and the decision is best left it to those who are properly placed to judge, viz., the line judge.

    The general procedure is that when the umpire over-rules immediately, it is usually accepted as a correct over-rule. This immediate over-rule is a practice listed in the BWF umpiring guidelines and recommendations. There are time when very experienced umpires follow the umpiring guidelines and recommendations blindly, as was the case here.

  3. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by LD rules! View Post
    But once it's been changed it can't be changed again I thought ?!?! That's what the rules state. Otherwise if a wrong call is made by the line judge and the umpire doesn't correct, but the big screen shows there was an error, the umpire still can't change the call.

    Personally I feel that a simple tv replay system is more than enough. No need for hawkeye or anything like that...
    There is nothing like that's what the rules state. Umpires will correct a call based on fact, fact that is seen by his/her own eyes. The basic premise of this correction is to make things right that were previously wrong.

    In this MD clash, the umpire made a correct call by the line judge incorrect by his correction. Now when he corrects his incorrect call, there will be no credibility left. How are the players to believe anything he says or does from then on. As a practical player, you just forget about the situation soon and concentrate on winning the next rally.

    Recall that after the correction, his next gesture was to signal the Korean(s) toward their court, which would suggest that he did not want any discussion. Any umpire worth his score-card would admit on a later review that that correction was wrong. But just as the practical player, one forgets and concentrates on the next rally.

  4. #157
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    ^^ I would've loved to see the irony of the KOR players getting a yellow card for continuing to argue the incorrect overrule. . That'd be the ultimate double injustice.

  5. #158
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Likely we will use computer replays soon in selected major events in 2013

    .
    Just found this comment from Tine Baun (on Saturday August 4, 2012) at the 2012 London Olympics.

    Source: http://thestar.com.my/sports/olympic...6&sec=Olympics

    TINE Baun is likely to get the computer replay line decisions she called for after her emotional defeat in the quarter-finals of the Olympic women’s singles badminton tournament on Thursday.

    The former world No. 1 from Denmark was bitterly disappointed with one crucial line decision during her 21-15, 22-20 loss to Saina Nehwal, the Commonwealth champion from India.

    Baun believes Sania’s last shot at 20-18 in the second game landed a couple of inches out and that the match should have gone to a decider.

    But the line judge called it in, causing Baun to toss her racquet away and hold her head in disbelief. Three rallies later she had lost the match.

    There was also a close line decision incident involving Olympic champion Lin Dan at 12-5 in the final game of his men’s singles quarter-final with Japan’s Sho Sasaki.

    Lin Dan’s attempted kill was called out, annoying the Chinese player, which was possibly one of the triggers for a sequence during which his seven-point lead was cut to one, almost altering the outcome of the match.

    “Sometimes at critical moments it can make such a difference,” Baun said.

    “There are times when a match can go either way. I really still think that shuttle was out and that we should have gone to a third game.

    So it would be really good to be able to be able to appeal to computer replays as they do in quite a few other sports.”

    This is what is likely to happen next year, according to Paisan Rangsikitpho, the vice-president of the Badminton World Federation (BWF), the sport’s international governing body.

    “We have done some research and I think it is likely we will use computer replays on an experimental basis in selected major events around the world in 2013, he said.


    “It won’t be HawkEye (a system used for ruling on line-calls in tennis and lbw decisions in cricket), which is not 100% accurate, but there is something else we have been looking at, and which we would like to try.

    “It’s time we had it, because we get some issues, and the crowds like it (replays). We need it.” — AFP
    .

  6. #159
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Welcome to the computer age, BWF...

  7. #160
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Only wishing that BWF know ......

    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Welcome to the computer age, BWF...
    .
    Hahaha... Only wishing that BWF know that they should implement computer/video ASAP.
    .

  8. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Just found this comment from Tine Baun (on Saturday August 4, 2012) at the 2012 London Olympics.

    Source: http://thestar.com.my/sports/olympic...6&sec=Olympics

    TINE Baun is likely to get the computer replay line decisions she called for after her emotional defeat in the quarter-finals of the Olympic women’s singles badminton tournament on Thursday.

    The former world No. 1 from Denmark was bitterly disappointed with one crucial line decision during her 21-15, 22-20 loss to Saina Nehwal, the Commonwealth champion from India.

    Baun believes Sania’s last shot at 20-18 in the second game landed a couple of inches out and that the match should have gone to a decider.

    But the line judge called it in, causing Baun to toss her racquet away and hold her head in disbelief. Three rallies later she had lost the match.

    There was also a close line decision incident involving Olympic champion Lin Dan at 12-5 in the final game of his men’s singles quarter-final with Japan’s Sho Sasaki.

    Lin Dan’s attempted kill was called out, annoying the Chinese player, which was possibly one of the triggers for a sequence during which his seven-point lead was cut to one, almost altering the outcome of the match.

    “Sometimes at critical moments it can make such a difference,” Baun said.

    “There are times when a match can go either way. I really still think that shuttle was out and that we should have gone to a third game.

    So it would be really good to be able to be able to appeal to computer replays as they do in quite a few other sports.”

    This is what is likely to happen next year, according to Paisan Rangsikitpho, the vice-president of the Badminton World Federation (BWF), the sport’s international governing body.

    “We have done some research and I think it is likely we will use computer replays on an experimental basis in selected major events around the world in 2013, he said.


    “It won’t be HawkEye (a system used for ruling on line-calls in tennis and lbw decisions in cricket), which is not 100% accurate, but there is something else we have been looking at, and which we would like to try.

    “It’s time we had it, because we get some issues, and the crowds like it (replays). We need it.” — AFP
    .
    BWF is a slow coach in whatever it does as in slow transportation.
    However, it is still better to act than doing nothing at all.
    Hooray to Tine Baun for speaking out loud.
    It was the Australian coach who protested at the match fixing scandal at the London 2012 OG which got the BWF to disqualify the four pairs of women's doubles players who were involved.
    The supporters of badminton do not want to be short-changed anymore and they must be vocal about any abuse in any BWF-sanctioned tournament.

  9. #162
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Smile If at their normal BWF matches, those 4 pairs would not be disqualified

    Quote Originally Posted by skchen View Post
    BWF is a slow coach in whatever it does as in slow transportation.
    However, it is still better to act than doing nothing at all.
    Hooray to Tine Baun for speaking out loud.
    It was the Australian coach who protested at the match fixing scandal at the London 2012 OG which got the BWF to disqualify the four pairs of women's doubles players who were involved.The supporters of badminton do not want to be short-changed anymore and they must be vocal about any abuse in any BWF-sanctioned tournament.
    .
    I actually believe that (others might want argue with me), if those matches were played at their normal BWF matches, those 4 pairs would not be disqualified.

    It was because of the 'Olympic Participation Spirit' clearly taken by the players' and officials' Olympic Oath;

    Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Oath

    that sparkled their disqualification.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 08-12-2012 at 12:30 PM.

  10. #163
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    Default Faulty Line Calls resurrect 'John McEnroe's in Badminton

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Hahaha... Only wishing that BWF know that they should implement computer/video ASAP.
    .
    Name:  john mcenroe.jpg
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    You're definitely nipping them in the bud, coach. They're very slow to act. S..l...o...w.... like a s..l...o...t...h

  11. #164
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Taufik Hidayat once walked out/resigned from a match

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakito View Post
    Name:  john mcenroe.jpg
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    You're definitely nipping them in the bud, coach. They're very slow to act. S..l...o...w.... like a s..l...o...t...h
    .
    Do you remember that Taufik Hidayat once walked out/resigned from a match (at the HK Open) after some bad line-calls?

    BWF fined Taufik for walking out.

    I was thinking that Taufik should fine BWF because their officials were making the wrong line-calls (through an independent Law Court).

    Seriously, one day some players could do it, if BWF are acting too slow.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 08-14-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  12. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Do you remember that Taufik Hidayat once walked out/resigned from a match (at the HK Open) after some bad line-calls?

    BWF fined Taufik for walking out.

    I was thinking that Taufik should fine BWF because their officials were making the wrong line-calls (through an independent Law Court).

    Seriously, one day some players could do it, if BWF are acting too slow.
    .
    I think Taufik is one of the coolest players with a patient temperament no one else can match, not even Morten Frost.

    Sure he should get accolades in that department. In fact i think BWF should start emmy award categories like coolest guy, best smash, best retriever and the sorts to add color to the sport.

  13. #166
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Proposal for badminton to have its own line technology

    Monday October 22, 2012
    http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.a...710&sec=sports

    Excerpts:

    ...And if the proposal to introduce the technology to minimise questionable line calls and other programmes get the thumbs-up from the Badminton World Federation (BWF) council next year, then 2014 will see badminton notching another milestone.

    Yesterday, the BWF’s deputy president Paisan Rangsikitpho, who is also the chairman of events committee, said they had come up with a few proposals after several meetings, including the introduction of instant replay technology.

    In the past, players had complained about many dubious calls by linesmen that had affected the quality and standard of the game and even led to arguments and tense situations.

    “We are finally making the proposal for the use of this technology. We are not adopting Hawk-eye but are looking into investing in similiar technology – a combination of human and new scientific methods by an American company.

    “It will involve huge costs but I believe it will be worth it. If the council approves, we will start by testing it in a few tournaments. We will start with one court and monitor it from then on.”

    ...Paisan said that next year’s Olympic Games format would see some changes.

    ...“We went through it thoroughly and decided that we are not scrapping the format completely but we will make some changes. We will stick with our group format as it was successful as we saw many quality matches,” he said.

    “However, we are proposing for a fresh draw to be conducted after the group matches, so that there will not be any more loopholes for players to manipulate.”

    Paisan, however, is more excited with the re-branding of their Grand Prix Gold. They are now looking at the GP Gold series, similiar to the Super Series. There will be 10-12 legs and the prize money will be increased.

    “The GP Gold event usually see the participation of second tier players but we want them to make good money too. We will increase the prize money. We have reaped great success with our Super Series and we hope to create the same excitement in our GP Gold events,” he added.

  14. #167
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Players to challenge line calls?

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Proposal for badminton to have its own line technology

    Monday October 22, 2012
    http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.a...710&sec=sports

    Excerpts:

    ...And if the proposal to introduce the technology to minimise questionable line calls and other programmes get the thumbs-up from the Badminton World Federation (BWF) council next year, then 2014 will see badminton notching another milestone.

    Yesterday, the BWF’s deputy president Paisan Rangsikitpho, who is also the chairman of events committee, said they had come up with a few proposals after several meetings, including the introduction of instant replay technology.

    In the past, players had complained about many dubious calls by linesmen that had affected the quality and standard of the game and even led to arguments and tense situations.

    “We are finally making the proposal for the use of this technology. We are not adopting Hawk-eye but are looking into investing in similiar technology – a combination of human and new scientific methods by an American company.

    “It will involve huge costs but I believe it will be worth it. If the council approves, we will start by testing it in a few tournaments. We will start with one court and monitor it from then on.”

    ...Paisan said that next year’s Olympic Games format would see some changes.

    ...“We went through it thoroughly and decided that we are not scrapping the format completely but we will make some changes. We will stick with our group format as it was successful as we saw many quality matches,” he said.

    “However, we are proposing for a fresh draw to be conducted after the group matches, so that there will not be any more loopholes for players to manipulate.”

    Paisan, however, is more excited with the re-branding of their Grand Prix Gold. They are now looking at the GP Gold series, similiar to the Super Series. There will be 10-12 legs and the prize money will be increased.

    “The GP Gold event usually see the participation of second tier players but we want them to make good money too. We will increase the prize money. We have reaped great success with our Super Series and we hope to create the same excitement in our GP Gold events,” he added.
    .
    (1) New format for our next Olympic Games Badminton?
    - It's about time for BWF to listen to us.

    (2) Grand Prix Gold series to have better prize money?
    - This is fantastic news for our 2nd echelon players.

    Here, I need to ask. - How would BWF remove 1st echelon players from playing in our GPG series?

    (3) Players to challenge questionable line calls?
    - This is the best news (that we have been waiting for).

    BWF to have its own new technology?
    Hope to be informed in which event we shall commence with this new technology.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 10-23-2012 at 10:25 PM.

  15. #168
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    (1) New format for our next Olympic Games Badminton?
    - It's about time for BWF to listen to us.

    (2) Grand Prix Gold series to have better prize money?
    - This is fantastic news for our 2nd echelon players.

    Here, I need to ask. - How would BWF remove 1st echelon players from playing in our GPG series?

    (3) Players to challenge questionable line calls?
    - This is the best news (that we have been waiting for)..
    Chris, there is another thread too, where you could discuss the above points if you wish.
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...th-the-program


    BWF to have its own new technology?
    Hope to be informed in which event we shall commence with this new technology.
    If you read the report, it says:
    "if the proposal to introduce the technology to minimise questionable line calls and other programmes get the thumbs-up from the Badminton World Federation (BWF) council next year,"
    lets not jump the gun, just yet! By the time BWF actually decide to do something, we might have a whole new technology available!

  16. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I actually believe that (others might want argue with me), if those matches were played at their normal BWF matches, those 4 pairs would not be disqualified.

    ...
    u might be right.

    just wondering -- other than the London Olympics, when was the last time players from both sides wanting to lose a match?

  17. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Just found this comment from Tine Baun (on Saturday August 4, 2012) at the 2012 London Olympics.

    Source: http://thestar.com.my/sports/olympic...6&sec=Olympics

    TINE Baun is likely to get the computer replay line decisions she called for after her emotional defeat in the quarter-finals of the Olympic women’s singles badminton tournament on Thursday.

    The former world No. 1 from Denmark was bitterly disappointed with one crucial line decision during her 21-15, 22-20 loss to Saina Nehwal, the Commonwealth champion from India.

    Baun believes Sania’s last shot at 20-18 in the second game landed a couple of inches out and that the match should have gone to a decider.

    But the line judge called it in, causing Baun to toss her racquet away and hold her head in disbelief. Three rallies later she had lost the match.

    There was also a close line decision incident involving Olympic champion Lin Dan at 12-5 in the final game of his men’s singles quarter-final with Japan’s Sho Sasaki.

    Lin Dan’s attempted kill was called out, annoying the Chinese player, which was possibly one of the triggers for a sequence during which his seven-point lead was cut to one, almost altering the outcome of the match.

    “Sometimes at critical moments it can make such a difference,” Baun said.

    “There are times when a match can go either way. I really still think that shuttle was out and that we should have gone to a third game.

    So it would be really good to be able to be able to appeal to computer replays as they do in quite a few other sports.”

    This is what is likely to happen next year, according to Paisan Rangsikitpho, the vice-president of the Badminton World Federation (BWF), the sport’s international governing body.

    “We have done some research and I think it is likely we will use computer replays on an experimental basis in selected major events around the world in 2013, he said.


    “It won’t be HawkEye (a system used for ruling on line-calls in tennis and lbw decisions in cricket), which is not 100% accurate, but there is something else we have been looking at, and which we would like to try.

    “It’s time we had it, because we get some issues, and the crowds like it (replays). We need it.” — AFP
    .
    Talk is talk until the e-system is implemented.

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