Yesterday, I had two of the best games of my life, although screwing up one of them (curteousy of me 100%) at the end, I had some of the best rallies in my life... some of em lasted more than 10-15 shots! Prior to that, I played 2 games against someone who would serve from the outside front corner to the center rear corner of the serice area. For the first game, I was in awe at how fast the serve was, and how flat he was able to make the serve. For that whole game I tried to think of a way to counter that shot, but unfortunately I never came up with one. I kept thinking when we started the second game, cuz my partner could barely tell if the shots were gonna land in or out, and basically either goes for the shot or not. Then I noticed something. When the guy was serving, the racket face was evidently above the handle and the shaft (he was serving forhand) but because he had a fast serve, he would start and end with racket face below handle, but the contact point would be above handle and waste. I obverved him for 3-4 serves (and yes, me n my partner WERE losing badly) and I noticed another thing, sometimes his racket face would be so much higher than his waist, it would be above the tape on the net. THAT was why sometimes the shuttle went at AMAZING speeds! and it would travel FLAT! (and I mean flat, I doubt the pros can even make the serve so flat) so after that observation I told my partner to watch his hands when he was serving to me, and my partner also made the same observation. So I told the guy that his serves are illegal... and he said some crap that REALLI pissed me n my partner off... he said... "My serve is legal, I've been playing badminton for more than you guys, you guys dont know anything, you're just saying that because you're losing so bad, dont be such sore losers" my partner almost dropped his racket to "reason" with him... (I would have done the same thing a few months or yrs bak... but I didn't last nite) I was more choked however at what he said about how we dont know anything because we've not been playing for longer than he has. At the end of the game I still went up to them and gave a smile with a firm hand shake, to make sure I dont sink as low as him... haha But is that true? We who started just sometime not so long ago (personally I've been playing for almost 2 yrs) we know less in terms of the game? I mean, I would know less technical wise than those who actually practice or go through some training, but he dinfinately didn't look like he fell beneath that catagory of people. Hell, at least I dun wear a golf glove while playing badminton
Yeah, a remark like that would definitely make me SNAP. Not because I'm saying I'm good, because I know I'm not, but I do know the game fairly well. The TOP of the head of the racket must be BELOW the waist upon CONTACT of the bird. Anything above is illegal and a fault. Why didn't you call an umpire or something? Reference from a coach? I usually don't try and argue with the other players, I usually immediately question my coach for confirmation.
I think the other guy is the real "pure sore loser" himself. Yeah, experience does count in the game, but does not mean who ever participates longer, much know everything in the right way. If I claim I've in this game for a long time (11 yrs), and overhead smash in every serve and kill everyone in my club 15-0, can I be the champion??? Makes non sense to me. Several yrs ago, I have a type of back hand serve. It was very hard to tell whether is legal or not (having friends standing there to watch from every angle). The top of the racket head sometimes pass the waist, sometimes not. Clearly, it will easily bring up arguments here and there. Later on, I just lowered the position by at least 1 inch, and there's no more arguement. The draw back is, for a period of time, my serve is like crap. However, after more practice, I just got used to it, and make it being much more effective. So, now, no argument, but still good serve (ok ok, maybe just according to my standard). I've also know ppl who refuse to listen when it comes to the rules. Like ppl jumping, waving, screaming or even put racket over the net when we play net shots. Clearly, accoring to the rulez (as we discussed in another thread), many of such actions are not legal. However, once a while when I told them about it (after they doing that over and over and over, and show off how effective and smart they are against me), they just act like the other guy, like, "yeah yea, u just lost a point... why don't u win that rally, then bring up the rule book..." Give me a break, I lose this point, just because they are voilating the rulez, and I don't want to hit them in my stroke!!! So, if he refuse to listen, he will learn his lesson in tournies, or when he faces some more experience players. Then, he will really know, who was the "loser" back then.
JChen, There are always some guys like this around. Thankfully, not that many. Agree with LB's comments. I think just take in it your stride and you did maintain your dignity. Something like that is just irritating.... What can you learn from this experience? 1) perhaps a better way of pointing out that the serve is illegal. Personally, I don't really care if it isn't a competition. 2) if that is really a weak spot of yours, you better learn how to cope with it because later on, another opponent may use the same tactic using a legal serve. 3) take it as a personal challenge. Next time you can play the guy again (after sorting out the potential returns possible). Then, see if you can improve your gameplay against him. If yes, revenge is sweet. If no, go back to the drawing board and see what else needs working on. 4) playing with a disadvantage is a common form of training. ie. I've played games where I'm not allowed to smash/play to a restricted area etc. You can take this attitude to the game. It's a test of the rest of your gameplay. 5) the serve is only one shot. If you can handle an illegal one, you are going to be lethal on the legal ones
No, but nearly... The whole shuttle has to be below the servers waist at the instant of being hit by the racquet. and the whole of the head of the racquet must be below the whole of the server's racquet hand
Unfortunately, there are some people who think that since they've "played for a long time," they know more. I had an old guy tell me my serve was too high when his serve is illegal every single time! I didn't bother telling him, since you can't win arguments against old people who've been at the club longer than you. My suggestion, if you want to prove your point to this guy (which may be a good idea, so he knows he can't throw around the fact that he's played longer), is to print off the rules and this picture which clearly shows what is legal and what is not. Phil
Well, if you had the top of the head of your racket below the waist, how are you going to hit the shuttle if it's above your waist? (Upon contact, sorry just wondering, not saying your wrong, you probably are right, I just need confirmation)
you should have just told him what he was doing...bring out the rule book (if you have one handy, someone did during a match just a couple days ago over here haha)...and tuck in your shirts haha... that's what happens here when someone calls service judge...they all tuck in their shirts and someone holds a clipboard and watches.
ML, the effect of your statement is almost the same as the effect of the what the laws actually say. The laws say nothing about where the racquet has to be in relation to the waist. Only about where the shuttle has to be in relation to the waist and where the racquet head has to be in relation to the hand. I wasn't trying to jump on you and just say you were wrong. If one is going to tell someone else that their serve is illegal, one should know what the laws state. I'm using "one" here to avoid pointing at you specifically. There are lots of players that are unaware of various laws or have misinterpretations of them because that's what other people have told them. I don't know all the laws off by heart. I tend to keep a copy close to hand in case of disputes.
No offense taken. I was just relaying what I was told, but if thats what it says in the rulebook, well, thats what I'll tell people from now on
This is a big problem with badminton when people don't follow the rules correctly. What is the most important stroke for the side that is serving? It's not the 2nd stroke of the serving side ... It's not the smash ... It's not the clear either ... It's not even the drop shot, net shot, half smash, fast drop, slow drop, underhand clear, drive, cut drop, slice drop, tumbling net shot, attack clear, etc ... You guessed it, that's right ... it's the service itself that is the most important stroke. Conversely, the most important stroke for the receiving side is the initial return of service. It is paramount that the serve be done legally since the serve itself can set the tone of the rally. Unfortunately, the most important stroke on the receiving side - the return of serve - is directly correlated with the serve. And if the serving side is not serving legally, the quality of the return of service will likely be compromised. Do what I do ... print out the laws of badminton from http://www.intbadfed.org/rules.html If you get into an argument, show your opponent the law that was broken. If your opponent does not comply, fault him for his service. And if he does it again, fault him again. Don't even let him redo the serve. He faulted and you have shown him the proper law - it is his loss of serve.
Very good suggestion, print out the page(s) about serve, especially the pics showing illegal serves and legal serves. Give it to that guy as a "gift", and he should realize what he's been done for yrs were totally wrong. If he's smart enough, he should change it (at least, when against u) and take his words back and say sorry. If he continue doing what he's been doing, well, maybe just don't have to play with him (to avoid argument), or take it as a charllenge as Cheung indicated.
I totally agree with your point of view Viper. And your idea about carrying a copy of the service laws around... I just might consider it. Many of the players at my club have illegal serves. Many of them have a fair amount of experience and have even taken professional lessons. Generally I don't really care too much about the matter as most of them seem to do it out of ignorance and whether their serve is illegal or not, it isn't good enough to throw off the game. However, there are some players who really try to capitalize on the illegal advantages of their particular service. These are the players that annoy me. In general, they either contact the shuttle over their waist, or totally side armed, or add deception to their service preparation. Some of the players have it down to a science so that their technique almost borders a legal serve. Personally, I find it quite lame since these are often players who pride themselves as being "good". I usually handle these players by positioning myself less aggressively in the service court when receiving, depending on the effectiveness of their illegal service. As Cheung pointed out, I try to consider it as a form of training, and when I do face legal serves they really are much easier to handle . What I haven't done yet but have been extremely tempted to do on many occassions is to simply tell them .
Even printing out the laws/rules... ...will probably not help as these players already considered themselves to be "veterans" and therefore "know" how to do a legal serve. Your best bet (if you really, really wanted to show them) is to have an umpire watch their serve or barring that, video tape their serve so that they can see it for themselves. One of the guys at my club (he is actually a Level II coach) gets really nervous when serving to a better player that he does illegal serves by actually sometimes ending up throwing the shuttle over the net!!! When questioned about it, he would say that the racquet hit the shuttle. Since it is not competative play, it really doesn't matter to me SmashingBird did questioned him one time but was ignored The way I see it is to ignore the "illegal serves" in non-competative play since in competative play, you will have umpires and service judges to take care of the problem for you.
Viper I don't disagree that the serve and return of serve are the most important shots. However, what is there to be gained by being so dogmatic about it in a practice match? You can either a) end up not playing, or b) play under a disadvantage and consider it as a test of your skills in handling a different play situation Which would you prefer? for myself I would pick b) because at least I get a game........and get to train.....
Re: Even printing out the laws/rules... That's very true. Generally, I won't point to the rules all the time anyway. I know there's so many grey areas, and maybe even the players who know the rulez, can't really apply it in a consistant basis, and making mistakes even w/o noticing. As long as the moves are close enough, why bother to stop the game every single 2 sec? However, the ones really pissed me off are the ones knowing nothing, but still showing off their "inventions" (most serve, net plays, etc). Once a while, I even saw them trying to teach beginners about the wrong forms. I was like, hmmm... that's how "SARS" spread???
Actually, there is a huge weakness for that person to serve that way. You can receive his serve by standing close to the center rear corner service area. That way, you can cut off his serve by smashing it every time. If he chooses to do a short serve, you will still have plenty of time to get to it. Simply return his short serve by playing a net short to the corner away from from him. Given where he is standing when he serves, he is very out of position to hit a net short aimed towards the corner away from him.
Re: Re: I dont know anything because I've not been playing for long enuff?? I can see ur point. The strategy works fine against a legal serve like this. However, with contact pts way higher than it suppose to be, the speed and angle are much more tougher to deal with. With fast flat drive or even downward smash type of serve (of coruse, illegal), the receiving end will get a lot of trouble to even apply a good return. Correct me if I am wrong.
