BWF sanctions Kim Ki Jung, Lee Yong Dae for 1 year

Discussion in 'Korea Professional Players' started by cobalt, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    There is no room for confusion.
    The players and the BKA are to blame.

     
  2. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    This happened to a British athlete called Christine Ohuruogu. Her last test date was missed due to a double booking by the stadium she normally trains. She rearranged to train somewhere else for the day totally last minute on the other side of London and forgot to phone the testing body to tell them(probably not on your mind at all). Per chance the tester turned up on this very day. They called her when they arrived, she tried to high tail it across the city to catch them in time but they just left.
    Who of you could account for exactly where you are going to be at all times? It's just a ridiculous concept.

    Why not just test them regularly at competitions and stick to that???? That's the only time it matters anyway.
     
  3. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    Restricting the tests to competition venues beats the purpose.

    Many of the 'sophisticated' or 'light' PEDs disappear from blood, urine and tissue in 24 hours.
    This is why sportspersons are tested at random hours and at random locations.

    The ADAMS database allows the anti-doping agencies to track suspicious travel.
    For instance, if a British rugby player were to regularly spend time in a Russian village which has no rugby going on, that would be flagged for investigation.

    The process in use here was formulated after the majority of international and national sports federations and associations (including the BWF and the BKA) agreed to it.

    Yes, the athlete has to provide a general contactable location for every day of the next three months - but then, this isn't very challenging as these are active sportspersons who usually stick to a rigid training schedule.

    Additionally, they also need to specify a location where they will be available for just one hour every day between 6am and 11pm.

    That sounds tough, but in actual practice, it isn't.

    Most people provide the 7am to 8am period (the other favourite is 10pm to 11pm) when they are most likely showering or at the gym or still asleep (in other words: at that specified location).

    By the way, it takes three 'whereabouts failures' in 18 months to attract a penalty.
    The athlete you mentioned must have missed the test on two previous occasions.
     
  4. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Be professional

    Most international pro athletes have even less reason than in the past, for not being present for their tests.

    Most of them have a trainer, coach, and an Association administrator of some sort who between them are always mindful of the athlete's schedule and whereabouts. The athlete himself/herself probably has a smartphone, a tablet, a watch that James Bond would be proud to wear, a Google+ account, a FB and Twitter page, and so on...

    Does BWF/WADA inform the athlete by email? Phone? Text/SMS? Snail mail? In any and all cases, it is simply a matter of taking 5 seconds to insert the appointment into his/her digital calendar/s and forward the appointment notification to his/her trainer/coach/admin. Athletes are actually very organised people- they have to be, to reach the pinnacle of their sport. I cannot believe for even one second that an athlete has a valid excuse for not taking the WADA notification as seriously as his/her next training session.

    ...Especially when every athlete knows how important the dope tests are -and what the consequences are, for either failing the test or failing to show up for the test. Dope testing is part of the package of being an international-level pro athlete. Just as the fun, fangirls, fanboys, money, endorsements and fame and glory are a part of it. If you cannot meet your obligations -3 times in a row!- you've no business to complain. You deserve what you get.
     
  5. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ See, that's why I'm not gonna turn pro. :p
     
  6. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    You can be a pro and not be subject to this 'whereabouts' reporting process.
    But, for that to happen, your national association needs to help you.

    It's up to each national association to pick the names to be on that country's 'registered list'.
    And only those on the list need to provide the whereabouts information for the ADAMS database.

    But this doesn't mean immunity from random testing for banned substances.
    The anti-doping agency has the power to call up even those not on the list.
    (And it would be suspicious if a prominent, active sportsperson is not on the list.)
     
  7. sen

    sen Regular Member

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    From my point of view some players and associations underestimate the importance of updating the whereabouts. And even worse, they underestimate the kind of punishment for violating the rules.

    I think after this high profile case, other badminton players will not have excuses if they are violating these rules. But again, they probably will make sure they will not do that.

    As this is the first case, many will not blame the players. It is unfortunate that it has to be Lee Yong Dae who is probably one of the top players that the audiences are attracted to watch, who gets the punishment.
     
  8. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I was going to say the opposite. It sounds easy but actually tough in practice.

    Many sports people publicly stated they find it very tough and it feels like you are a prisoner. You fill it out for 3 months in advance but it is not limited to 3 months. It is your whereabouts 7 days a week all year. Athletes travel a lot, flights get delayed, traffic gets bad on the way from the airport, flight cancellation, driver doesn't show up, you get a pain and need to go see physio instead of being in the training hall, You where just hungry and decided to go grab some food somewhere after training. This system would have to be your main priority in life for it to work and you would have to consider it before doing anything 6am-11pm 365days. Some complain it is against your human rights(eu).

    With regards to how the ped's work I have no idea(so I may be wrong here) but if they can be tested at every tournament (at least 1 per month) then I don't see how that beats the purpose. If the drug is out of the system then it's not enhancing. If it does have that great effect in the 2 weeks in between competition, they should just do "in house" weekly testing @ training. Wada gets notified of this weekly happening then can sit in at any surprise for authenticity.

    This whole big brother tracking system is very severe imo, and extremely easy to be caught out with whereabouts rules.
     
  9. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    They don't notify you that's the point. There is no appointment.:confused:
     
  10. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    I remember reading somewhere that they do. But give only 1 hr advanced notice. That's how that British athlete received the same fate recently because she supposedly got stuck in traffic trying to get there.
     
  11. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    thanks.

    so, athletes update the information once every three months?

    but i assume they can amend the information after they are submitted, right?
     
  12. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    That's not true. The international standard for testing states that no advanced warning is to be given. (exceptions are there for minors etc).

    I am not sure if you are referring to the athlete I had talked about But i think they called her when they arrived because it's big stadium so she tried to get there before the hour was out. (sure that's what she said on a talk show). Might not be same one, as you said recently but it was 7+years ago:p.
    The rules changed in 2009. Maybe before then there was notice given, but not if memory serves me.
     
  13. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I pretty sure you can hit them up with a text any time before the hour to notify a schedule change. So if you know what your schedule was that had been input in their system and Wada's number on speed dial, there shouldn't be a problem ever. The thought of Wada and a copy of your stated schedule would have to be in your head at all times though.
     
  14. catman

    catman Regular Member

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    My understanding is most of the doping is done during training to build up the muscles to be used in competition. They need to recover quickly in training to build up the muscles. These drugs help them train harder and longer.
    So during competition - they are rarely on the drugs.
     
  15. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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  16. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    From the main WADA site, a snippet:

    How easy is it for athletes to enter and update their whereabouts information?


    Athletes can easily enter their whereabouts information on ADAMS. Athletes are trained to use ADAMS by their IF or NADO, which were themselves trained by WADA. In addition, WADA offers a number of resources to users (user guides, etc.).
    Athletes can update their whereabouts information at all times, including by emailing or text messaging their relevant ADO.
    Under the revised International Standard for Testing which went into force on January 1, 2009, the limited number of top elite athletes included in the registered testing pool of their IF or NADO are required to specify 1 hour each day (between 6 a.m. and 11 p.m.) during which they can be located at a specified location for testing. If they are not at the indicated location at the specified time, they expose themselves to the risk of a missed test.
    In addition, they are required to indicate their regular activities for testing purposes. This information does not have to cover every 24/7 movement of the athlete but only recurring or regular activities, for example:
    Overnight home (address)
    Morning training (address)
    14:00 – 15:00: training (available for testing).

    Does ADAMS have a specific module for whereabouts of team sport athletes?
    Yes. Under the 2009 International Standard for Testing, in team sports, whereabouts information can be submitted by team officials on a collective basis as part of the team’s activities.
    ADAMS contains a module for team sports which allows an ADO to create a role for a team official. The team official then can enter whereabouts information on a collective basis for athletes of his/her team who are part of their ADO registered testing pool.
    ADAMS subsequently informs the athlete that the team official entered new data and requests the athletes to accept or reject the submission made by the team official.
    Athletes are ultimately responsible for their whereabouts. As a result, they cannot avoid responsibility by blaming their representative or the team for filing inaccurate information about their whereabouts or for not updating their whereabouts if they were not at the location specified by them during the 60-minute time-slot.


    Source:
    http://www.wada-ama.org/en/ADAMS/QA-on-ADAMS/
     
  17. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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  18. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    Surely, in this age of 'connected 24/7' devices, the player has it easier.

     
  19. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Surely someone can write an app that constantly updates his location to the ADAMS via gps on the smartphone.
     
  20. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    More abut "Whereabouts" from WADA.

    http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Anti-Doping-Community/Athletes-/QA-on-Whereabouts/

    Excerpts:

    What are whereabouts?

    Whereabouts are information provided by a limited number of top elite athletes about their location to the International Sport Federation (IF) or National Anti-Doping Organization (NADO) that included them in their respective registered testing pool as part of these top elite athletes’ anti-doping responsibilities.


    Why are whereabouts important for clean sport?

    Because out-of-competition doping controls can be conducted without notice to athletes, they are one of the most powerful means of deterrence and detection of doping and are an important step in strengthening athlete and public confidence in doping-free sport. Accurate whereabouts information is crucial to ensure efficiency of the anti-doping programs, which are designed to protect the integrity of sport and to protect clean athletes.

    The concept of out-of-competition is not new. Experience has shown that out-of-competition testing is crucial to the fight against doping, in particular because a number of prohibited substances and methods are detectable only for a limited period of time in an athlete’s body while maintaining a performance-enhancing effect. The only way to perform such testing is by knowing where athletes are, and the only way to make it efficient is to be able to test athletes at times at which cheaters may be most likely to use prohibited substances and methods.


    Are all athletes subject to these whereabouts requirements?

    No.
    Whereabouts requirements are for the limited number of top-level athletes who are in the registered testing pool of either their IF or NADO. They were designed to give those top-level athletes a flexible tool to show their commitment to doping-free sport, as well as appropriate, sufficient and effective privacy protection.

    WADA is not responsible for deciding who should be part of these registered testing pools. IFs are afforded discretion as to who should be subject to these provisions internationally, and NADOs are afforded discretion to create a registered testing pool at the national level. It is WADA’s recommendation that registered testing pools be of proportionate and manageable size and focus on top international and national elite athletes.

    Is it true that whereabouts rules were made more difficult for athletes to manage?

    No.

    The new element introduced is the harmonization, requested by WADA’s stakeholders during the revision process, of the various whereabouts requirements applied by different anti-doping organizations. Stakeholders requested the harmonization of whereabouts requirements among Code signatories, i.e. to a broader range of sports.

    A number of pre-existing regimes involved athletes providing more extensive whereabouts information than is now required. Following extensive consultation, this mandatory whereabouts requirement was in fact reduced from the more flexible yet more demanding 24/7 requirement previously applied by a number of sports and countries of the world. Now it is the same rule for all, with the same potential sanction. This avoids the scenario we saw in the past where an athlete from one sport was sanctioned 12 months for 3 missed tests, yet another athlete from the same country but a different sport received 3 months.

    Athletes can update their 60-minute time-slot and their whereabouts at all times, including by emailing or text messaging their relevant anti-doping organization. If they miss a test, they have the opportunity of providing a reason. If this excuse is accepted by the relevant anti-doping organization, then the missed test is not part of any record and does not count as one of three missed tests required within 18 months before any sanction is considered by the relevant ADO.

    All organizations and individuals (including athletes) who decided to participate in the consultation process that led to their approval of the revised IST that took effect on January 1, 2009, agreed that these requirements were sensible, proportionate, and part of the responsibility of top level athletes to protect the integrity of their sport.

    Do athletes have to provide and update their whereabouts information themselves?

    Athletes can have their agent or another representative submit their whereabouts information if they wish to. In team sports, whereabouts information can be submitted by team officials on a collective basis as part of the team’s activities.

    However, athletes are ultimately responsible for their whereabouts. As a result, they cannot avoid responsibility by blaming their representative or the team for filing inaccurate information about their whereabouts or for not updating their whereabouts if they were not at the location specified by them during the 60-minute time-slot.

    Do Anti-Doping Organizations only test athletes who are subject to whereabouts requirements?

    No.

    Whereabouts requirements are a practical tool to help ADOs conduct effective out-of-competition testing. Irrelevant of whether they have been selected to be part of a registered testing pool, athletes can still be tested out-of-competition by their IF, their NADO or other ADOs.

     

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