Lee Yong Dae ( 이용대 / 李龙大 ) / Ko Sung Hyun ( 고성현 / 高成铉 )

Discussion in 'Korea Professional Players' started by visor, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Actually, I think that Ko is overly muscular for this sport, if that is possible. I know how Gill Clark is always in awe of his "strapping physique" which would be perfect for tennis, but in badminton it's not how hard you can pound the bird but how fast you can whip the bird. Speed trumps raw power, imho.
     
  2. SolsticeOfLight

    SolsticeOfLight Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,415
    Likes Received:
    216
    Location:
    Belgium
    I wouldn't say he's slow though :p Perhaps you've been watching the Kims?
     
  3. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Germany
    As seen with Fu Haifeng and his wimpy arms...he's basically skin and bones! ;)
    Thing with Ko is that he has the legs to move it all around. Comparatively, they're much more muscular than his upper body, and he has shown that he has incredible speed around the court.
    Jung wasn't exactly elf-like, either....often had to think of Gimli when he walked on court :D

    The only really good smasher that's not more muscular than his partner is Tan Boon Heong, and with him you often see how he gets tired halfway into the match. I'm no expert, so I won't state that it's surely his lack of muscle in comparison to the other hard-hitters, but it makes you wonder sometimes ;)
    Kim Sa Rang faces the same problem. Others like Shin/Yoo were excluded as I don't see them as exceptional smashers in World Elite terms.
     
  4. lilmizsara

    lilmizsara Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Researcher
    Location:
    Singapore
    Actually I totally agree with Visor. I personally think Ko is overly muscular. I mean, yes his legs/thighs are rather huge too and he moves around pretty quickly usually - but again he's not consistent in this area. Sometimes, he dives a lot/scrambles a lot for shots which just actually means he's not fast enough to the bird. But then again I really don't think being muscular really makes that much of a difference. I mean.. it certainly contributes yes, but I don't see how his smashing for instance is consistently better than some others in the current crop of MD players. To me it's in the technique and the skill (speed) which makes way much more difference than the sheer amount of muscle (raw power). Sometimes he looks a little clumsy to me as well. Oh well, let's see how this pair will perform here

    Anyway, it's the Asian Badminton Champs! Anyone lucky enough to be watching it LIVE in Taipei? :)
     
  5. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Germany
    You'll be hard pressed to find someone who's his equal just in smashing...Fu is superior, but apart from him, only a few can smash as hard and consistently as he can (Tan can actually smash harder, but can't keep that pace up for very long).
    I don't think his training is designed to make him that big, it's most likely just a byproduct - strength training and lucky genes, I guess...given they get into their favored position, it's good to have that strength and endurance. The problem for this pairing is that currently, they don't get into that formation often enough (or get countered out of it).
    With how tall he is, I don't really see how he could increase his agility very much - he has a higher center of gravity than Jung or even Fu, so he'll always be just a tad slower to change directions. This pair just have to find their own style of play, Lee has to learn how to play to Ko's strengths as well and can't just continue to play the same as he did with Jung.

    Anyhow, here's hoping that they perform well in the BAC (and of course later tournaments)....Ko is one of my favorite players on tour.
     
  6. Elisha

    Elisha Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Canada
    Lol there goes my daydream of being pro!
    I'm too muscular for this game and I realized it returning from a 16+ year hiatus!
     
  7. icey_drone

    icey_drone Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    True.

    Having massive muscles weigh you down and stiffens movement. Flexibility and speed is highly valued in badminton.

    And because Lee Yong Dae is lightning quick, he is great at the net and because he is flexible, it helps with his defense and racket maneuverability around the body.
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    :) I'm just noting on casual observation that most of the top men players with both speed and power are around 5ft 10in and 150lbs or so, with a lanky normal physique. Like LYD, TBH, LCW, LD, CY, Setiawan, Gunawan. Of course there are occasional outliers like JJS, Kido.

    Even FHF is not that muscular, if you ignore his monster of a left arm. :p


    As icey-drone and lilmizsara mentioned, Ko's excessive muscles appear to be a detriment to him as he seems slower and not as fluid covering the court as others. And I don't find his smashes to be particularly devastating (even LYD can smash just as hard now that he's gained some muscles), given that he can probably lift and bench more than the others.

    I recall seeing a photo of him on Victor website flexing his back muscles doing weights but can't find it now that they've updated the website.

    Anyway, not putting him down or anything, just an observation, since I don't think there's any other player singles or doubles who is more muscular than him... and this includes LD and LCW.
     
    #128 visor, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  9. lilmizsara

    lilmizsara Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Researcher
    Location:
    Singapore
    Totally agreed. There's a threshold to everything I feel. Having the right amount of muscles is important in badminton, for instance your thigh/legs can't be too skinny else you can't get anywhere fast and tire out easily. But that's to a certain limit, beyond that and the extra muscles make no difference and in fact serves as a hindrance to movement or execution. And especially where badminton - a nimble, fast-reflex racket sport is concerned, how big/muscular you are does not make much of a difference to your technique and flexibility, in fact it might be detrimental.

    And no, we aren't 'hard-pressed' in finding someone equal to his smashing. Just going for power, I do see other players rivalling that. FHF for instance. But I wasn't really referring to power, I'm referring to skill/technique. There are tons of players who aren't hard smashers but they have the technique. Many. Hong Wei, TBH and Carsten Mogensen are some I can think of, there are many others with good placement yet not as powerful. It does not matter cause their smashes are mostly effective. I agree with Visor that Ko's smashes aren't particularly devastating as I see opponents being able to defend almost all of his smashes. also, smashing is all but one part of the game. No point being able to thunder down hard smashes but yet not be able to be consistent and make at least 10 different unforced errors during the match - as one poster mentioned a few pages before. and I also don't attribute Ko's sometimes slow movement to his height. come on, he's not 2 metres tall right? ;) He's about the same height as LYD and I was actually surprised to see Chai Biao/Hong Wei to be so incredibly tall (they were towering over the Koreans in the SwissOpen medal ceremony photos ) yet they are agile. BoeMo are tall but I don't find them slow, at least not Mo.

    I'm not putting him down as well, just stating my observations cause I think he's the only super muscular guy I see on the circuit!
     
  10. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Couldn't find any shirtless pics of Ko, but this video is the closest, where they change shirts at the break at 6:38. Kinda blocked by the ump chair, but from the sounds of the spectators, it must've been a sight... ;) [video=youtube;dyh6Wx8SK0Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dyh6Wx8SK0Q#t=39 8s[/video]
     
  11. lilmizsara

    lilmizsara Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Researcher
    Location:
    Singapore
    LOL visor!!

    Haha if you like the Victor picture of him carrying those weights, I have it somewhere - can send it to you ;)

    Also, if you wanna see like a better version of him shirtless.. LOL. check out the china masters (or china open can't remember which) Final 2011 between Ko/Yoo and BoeMo. Ko/Yoo took off their shirts there and the camera was on Ko for abit when they were throwing their shirts to the crowd.

    I bet Gill Clarke bookmarks it and watches that video daily. :p And LOL at the crowd cheering!! hahhahahaha
     
    #131 lilmizsara, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  12. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    ^^ Don't send it to me... post the photo here! :p :) ..... (goes check out the china final video... ;))
     
  13. ant01

    ant01 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    England
    How can you fix inconsistency? If only Ko can stop doing simple mistakes (e.g. serving in to the net quite often) then the pair might have a chance winning big titles. Also, his defence is weaker than LYD so every just attacks him for easy points.
     
  14. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Even though this thread is on the pair but it seems we're concentrating on Ko more since he's the weak link... :p

    You have brought up a good point about his serves: they're too rushed. ..... As opposed to some slow servers like Ma Jin and Pedersen (who takes almost 5 secs to serve and sometimes make me wonder if the live stream has stopped :p), Ko takes like 0.2 secs to serve and he doesn't even look up to serve. When he first started playing few years ago, this would catch his opponents by surprise and he could get a few easy points, but nowadays his opponents are effectively turning this around and using this against him by putting their hand up to indicate they're not yet ready to receive, leading to a let as Ko still serves pre emptively without looking up to check if the receiver is ready. Ko has to seriously work on and improve this aspect of his serves. It should be quite easy, as serves are the easiest to practice and drill, even without the need of a partner. :)
     
  15. ant01

    ant01 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    England
    His serve is just one example that I picked out, there are a lot of other areas he appears weak on like front court and defence. A lot of mistakes on the Korean side just seem to flow from Ko's racquet. I'm sure this affects LYD's performance too in becoming demotivated by playing with someone who he can't have absolute confidence in.

    I also question Ko's choice of racquet...why not play to his main strength and pick a head heavy racquet :confused:
     
  16. Elisha

    Elisha Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Canada
    Technically he's promoting the TK8000 which is the head heavy racket. However you see both of them using the BS12 instead!
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    ^^ Head heavy racket? I believe he used the Thruster in a tournament several months before it was released. Don't think he did well with it or anything... :p If anything, a head heavy racket will make his defence even worse than it is now... :p I'm thinking he should something stiffer and more powerful like MX JJS .
     
  18. Elisha

    Elisha Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Canada
    I have both MX-JJS and TK8000. And they are both nice. He can't go wrong with either!
    I believe LYD and JJS at one time even used the MX80 at the same time!
     
  19. icey_drone

    icey_drone Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    my first reaction... why so few people and seats..
     
  20. DannyYan

    DannyYan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    5
    Occupation:
    Human
    Location:
    Citizen of the world
    LYD never used a mx80 if i m not mistaken...only jung js used it in the bwf tournament and they wont against china pair...thats what came to my mind when i recalled back..xD
     

Share This Page