Bao vs Taufik also. Maybe we just shoot the messenger Taufik for blowing the whistle. Someone cries foul and ppl call him a cry baby instead...
If they're not caught, how can one prove they're cheating You should know that all pro players (in all sports) push the envelope and get away with it
the problem is who caught them? bwf never rely on the camera, only on umpire most of the time the umpire miss can't blame them as they got to look left and right and centre so, naturally the spectators caught them through video and live but can't do nothing lol suspect until proven guilty can't apply here
It's very easy and simple way to prove it, show the damage shuttle to the umpire, period. Why's Taufik making a fuss and end up proving nothing??? Because he's a cheater so he can delay game, catch up breath, and interrupt opponent point run rhythm.
There are many forms of disruption practiced by players. A common one is when a player puts his hand up when his opponent is about to serve. By your definition all these players are cheats too.
Since you didn't refute my first example, i guess you had accepted that fact that Taufik's accusation of shuttle manipulation (mostly against chinese players which Taufik have most difficulty to beat) is just a farce. On disruption of service, i see this practice is common to almost all players which you also had point out but it's done quite sparingly, and not against any particular player. However, Taufik throw shuttle manipulation tantrum in predictable way, usually when he losing against a chinese player. You may think it's because maybe chinese player is notorious shuttle manipulator, well then, go read my above paragraph. Conclusion is either chinese players are notorious shuttle manipulator OR Taufik is a notorious game disruptor (constant shuttle change, delay game to cry about shuttle manipulation, asking floor sweep). From my observation and seeing how and when these tricks are being done, I would take the latter conclusion.
My conclusion is that all players will bend the rules to the limit if if helps them win. Many different "techniques" will be used, some more subtle than others. And as the BWF continues to introduce more prize money into the sport I think players will do even more to ensure they can grab a slice of that. That's what Pros have to do–it's their meal ticket. As with my previous comments in this thread, it's never been a matter of which country they're from.
Then why china team are so successful in Non-prized tournaments like the Olympic, WC, Thomas/Uber Cup, Sudirman Cup, Asian Games, while Malasyian and Indonesia have more success in prized tournaments like the super series and various opens??? If your premise that players will do what's necessary to win and earn their meal tickets, doesn't this mean there are more cheatings in prized tournaments huh?
Why is it with you that the issue has always to be between countries? I have only talking about individuals. If you want to respond to my posts, let's keep it that way. If you insist on continuing to assassinate players from countries other than those from your beloved China then please don't quote my posts. And BTW, winning tournaments, whether involving prize money or not, can lead to other monetary gains like commercial endorsements, government rewards, etc.
You take the cue from your superiors Here's my 2 bits... Anyone who's been around the block will know that borderline cheating or "pushing the envelope" or "trying something new..." however you want to put it; you know you're doing something fundamentally dishonest and you will find a hundred ways to justify it. Here are a few examples: He did it a hundred years ago; she did it yesterday; they did it last night. Show me where it says you cannot do it. They do it in football or basketball and get away with it. Its my version of the "hand of God." You are being racist. You are being communal-minded. You are anti- so-and-so country. But the other guy cheated last year and no one told him anything. Yes, yes and yes. But you have still done something dishonest. Chances are, you get away with it; sometimes you pay the penalty. But in every case, you have thrown a stone that will generate ripples for a long time: on forums, in tea shops, in gyms, workplaces, homes, schools. Probaly create a lot of bad vibes as well. So what to do? There is cause and effect. There is action and consequence. Lets say the referee does not take action if a player has cheated. Multi-angle videos are available for the world to see later. NOW: if the people who matter really want to keep the game clean, they will conduct an internal review based on all available data, and then take action against their own player. The action may be suspension for a period, or a fine, or an official warning, or removal from the national team. As they say: It is important for justice to be done. But it is more important for justice to be seen to be done. And this can be only done by the powers in the game. The Associations. The National boards and bodies. The Ministries of sports. When these bodies are only concerned with the "result" and not the process, you will always get peole looking the other way. Codes of conduct are not just for players; they must be for the bodies as well, and everyone must be accountable for their duties and responsibilities. Other sports have processes and committes in place for these things. I will be the first to admit they dont always work out, but they do limit the damage and fallout and are instrumental in keepng things in check. Otherwise, many professional sports could have been much worse off than they are now. Fortunately badminton is still a VERY clean sport by comparison. And what about the players themselves? The ones who have been on the circuit for long enough and tasted success, and matured as people (a lot of professional players are just kids, with no real exposure to life as a normal person knows it) they dont indulge in trickery because they know its a waste of time and their sense of integrity will not allow them to do it. There is always a bad apple somewhere. The solution is not to set fire to the entire orchard. Use the correct soil, pesticides and growth methods. Pay attention for corruption in your own backyard. You will reap a better, healthier, more bountiful harvest of players. So if you want to point a finger at any player, remember to also ask: what is the coach, manager, director, minister doing about it? That is, if all you guys are really interested in a cleaner game, and not in venting your own trumpet on the forum. Then hopefully, you can collectively bring pressure and accountability to your own local, regional and national bodies. Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh, but that's what the truth often is: unpalatable.
Why are you alleging that I always have issue between countries? Just look at the thread titles lately, Is BCL cheating, is Chen Hong cheating, is Chen Jin cheating? I was addressing issue at hand which unfortuately, all goes against china players. Please don't jump to such conclusion. Avoid mentioning countries is just smart writing like what you're maybe doing, it doesn't say your are country neutral. And BTW, there is a different between playing for prize money and monetary gain that 'may' come after winning. You see, Opens and Super Seris prize purses are pre-known guarantee rewards that any players know about year(s) ahead and can aim and work hard (or cheat as some alleges) for. However, winning OG, WC, AG, TC/UC, SC doesn't guarantee monetary reward or the reward or the size of it isn't known before hand. Also, if monetary reward is so important to players, why is china is often accused of fixing matches? Why would some players willing to 'give' matches to another co-players if money and fame is so important? Case in point, Thomas Laybourn is still looking for any sponsorship, commercial endorsement, government rewards and he's the 2009 gold medal WC champ (in XD). Where is his slice of beef huh? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGz0RhY-0c at 4:25 onward
Isometric_kid, I am giving a general, balanced perspective on this issue. I have pointed out a few things which relate to what you term as "cheating". I couldn't care whether they are playing in the TC, WC, SS or GP tournament, you will find players looking for an edge to win. If this is "cheating", so be it. Let the umpire decide. That's his job. If it winds you up so much complain to the proper authorities. I, just like you, am simply a poster on a forum. I know what the limitations of my contributions are on such issues. You obviously have a bias towards China and that's fine. But if you believe Taufik might be cheating, at least admit the CHN players in question might be too. By your definition of cheating, you can't have it both ways.
You proclaimed to give general, balanced perspective and yet you labeled me a china fan, while I did not pass judgement onto you. I stuck to topic and gave my opinion of 3 cheating allegations which happen to be against 3 chinese players. I do agree with you that responsibility rest upon the umpire to make fair judgement. So far, none of the umpires have gave warning or yellow card to BCL, Chen Hong or Chen Jin. (unaudible conversation does not constitute as warning as we don't know what was said). However, the complainers, be it Taufik or any other players, should be warned for disrupting the game flow. Just like in tennis, a player can't keep on challenging line calls without consequences, especially when challenges are consistenly wrong.
Excellent Suggestion using Tennis as a comparison. Honestly, BWF should consider some sort of 'provision' for complaints / challenges from player. We should not shoot the messenger but letting the messenger run down the court is not tolerable. Example: Let's say BWF set a rule that no more than 2 complaints a match should be fine That is the exact purpose why this kind of discussion deserves to happen in BC. Both of us on opposing sides but I can respect that suggestion.
Can we put this kinda non-sense topic to an end now? Overall, the officials will make the final calls, not us. Yes, they are human, and they do make mistakes here or there. But overall, I assume they do a much better job than any one of other 99.9999% of the time. That's why they are certified, and they can make a career out of that. So, let them do their job, and even if there's a questionable decision, it's just part of the game. CJ, CH, BCL, LD, LYB, etc are not aliens. They are human beings. Even if they have some questionable acts here and there (depend on how you want to believe), they did not violate any written rule. Their "tricks" (if you believe they do have), can be easily done by any of their opponents or even our club level players. However, how come we are not the world champion like they do? Because 99.9999% of their success come from their own hard working (which almost never led to a hot thread which last 2,000 posts and 30 pages), rather than a questionable call / act (which immediately become THE TOPIC, for the next 2 weeks, or 4 years like this one...).
