To serve for the match is quite different than receiving (as LD did 21-21) imop. You could also say LHI would already had 21 before this incident if the overuling was not made to LDs favour. But the point is mooth.. you cant really extrapolate results like that -Twobeer
Fact: all those "bad" calls were OVERRULED in Lin Dan's favor Fact: Lin Dan had 1 match point at 20-19 in the second set, which he could not convert and ended up losing 21-23. Fact: Lin Dan had 2 further match points at 20-18 before that controversial call was made, again, he could not convert those 2 match-points. Fact: Lin Dan actually had 1 last match point at 23-22, which was after the controversial line call. He failed to nail that one as well, which eventually led to Lee Hyun Il winning the match. So, who was it to blame if not himself?
Agreed. If only that call was given to Lin Dan...if only Li Mao was not to bother Lin Dan...if only...if only.....yawn
Match points lost. So near, yet so far. Oh well, Lin Dan. There's always the next tournament. He gave me a weak smile when I shook his hand. He was still gracious.
Naughty u Well...that's why I urge ppl to move on..... BTW....u posted more than me on this incident I posted a mere 1 post before the replies just now.
Yeah.. ..too bad, i came juuust a bit late, as kwun/mods locked 1 thread (in the 2008 KO sub-forum) which i was planning to post in.....Anyway, it's all good; (hopefully) i'm sure this incident will "die off" by itself after a short while...
Birdwood, you asked the question, I was merely answering. To me, that incident wasnt as relevant as CO 2007 but since ppl have mentioned... I'm surprised you even want to watch the vid, must have made you a curious cat rather than Wood pecker bird. And no, I dont have the video, I joined BC abt same time as you did. You need to ask the "Senior" BCers . There are press reports in the WC 2006 thread : http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36429&page=3 and 'fly' thru that WC 2006 thread & see. Azabar - apparently there was also bad line calls. I remember it all over the papers that time. For details, read the WC 2006 thead & judge for yourself.
again, i am azabaz not azabar. anyway, yes i know there was other things happening during the 'break you leg' match but i just want to point out that saying 'go break his legs' can't be accepted as physical intimidation since it is not contact sport and LCW should have not let that intimidate him mentally. and i also hope no malaysian fan will mention the "break your legs" incident again because i think that was just LCW being mentally weak rather than being harmed physically in any way. and i agree that this bad line calls are similar to CO2007 and not with the "break your legs" issue.
Aiyaaa, now no more tourney till after CNY. So if no controversy got nothing much to talk abt. Oh yeah (he he starting sthing myself), how are the China press potraying this story? Sitting on fence, for LD, against LD?
Eagle, I did not ask you the question in the first place. sepang asked me first and I asked him to bring in the facts, before you gave a statement in supporting sepang's "break his legs" about LYB without all the facts I had requested. It's not I was curious, ppl make a statement about LYB infamous "Break his legs" and sound like it's true, either they need to know the facts to back this up or they better not to say it as a matter of fact. I don't like to go around making comments unless I can back up my words, that's why if anyone wants me to comment on something which I don't know about, please bring in the facts. Please notice: I did not start the thread on LYB. From the link you provided above, it's only what LCW said what LYB said. And unfortunately, I don't have the time to " 'fly' thru that WC 2006 thread & see".
mooth? a typo The overturned line calls were bad and corrected by umpire, not me. So what you are arguing about? "LHI would already had 21 before this incident if the overuling was not made to LDs favour". If your assumption is correct here, next time, all we need is to have KO linesmen decide who will win MS title in KO SS instead of players I did not extrapolate results, I only looked at the score occurred after 21-21. They were facts, not imaginary numbers with ifs ...LD should have won the point at 21-21, and the bad line call was not corrected. These were all facts, not extrapolations
Like twobeer wrote: to serve for the match at 22-21 and win the point, will be different from to be at the receiving end and win it (which Lin Dan did to level the score). So, the facts were different too: Fact: Lin Dan got the point during Lee Hyun Il's serve. Can you guarantee that Lin Dan would have won the match if he was serving for the match at 22-21 (supposedly if the controversial line call was given to Lin Dan too)? Note that these 2 were entirely different scenarios (not the same which you have assumed them to be). That's why twobeer said you extrapolated
ok, ok, sori, I understand. Just that I was getting a bit tired of the referances to that incident (in all the threads abt this KO incident), so I said sthing 1st bf more ppl ask. Since it was 2 years ago, those who watched/recorded would have to dust their DVD/VCD disc to refresh their memory. It's like in 2010, some newbie asks abt this KO 2008 incident, comes here & reads the threads & sees line by line description of the sequence, he, he. If the newbie asks for the vid, we might have to wipe the dust off our disc/external harddrive too. As I've said, me thinks CO 2007 is more relevant since this thread is talking abt that .
Again I would not go that far to blame a player for not finish the match as the cause of the problem. The confrontation was brought up in the first place by: bad line calls, dirty tricks by LM, and unresponsive umpire for the last bad call at 21-21 in MSF KO 08. Your argument in my opinion broke new ground in the BC forum Are you saying these were not bad calls and should not be overruled by the umpire? I don't get it. Maybe you favor biased line calls instead I don't see why LD could not lose game 2? Did anywhere in SS says players had to win in straight games in order to win MS title in KO 08? Maybe that's in the book you have, then please share with us Did you count the effect of biased line calls on LD's psychology and performance even though they were corrected by umpire? and did you count the effect of LM's dirty tricks on LD's psychology and performance why LD could not close the game 3 Look like you're all for those things as normal in MSF KO 08 If the bad call at 21-21 was corrected, LD would have been at 22 to 21 LHI at the match point. Since LD won the next point, he would win the MS title in KO 08 by 23-21. There wouldn't any need to go to 23-22, LD went there because the bad call was not corrected, LM badly behaved, LD badly behaved and upset. Maybe you did not watch the match or the video clip about what happened at close 21-21 in MSF KO 08? How did you expect him to perform well after the incident? I thought that's what the linesmen and LM were doing to upset LD and help their losing player LHI You made me laugh and don't even want to respond to such a comment Facing the facts, all of which happened in MSF KO 08. No one made up the story, only the biased linesmen and LM were to blame for their sportsmanship and dirty tricks unless you're all for it
hiya, bad of me, sori, sori, the 'r' easier to remember than 'z'. And yes, at 1st I didnt quite get why they keep mentioning it, so went to read the WC 2006 again. The main similarity I could find was in both LCW's reaction & subsequent lost was critised as "mentally weak." And , I was trying to point their attention to CO 2007. With both of us, maybe can succeed, eh?
If newbie asks for vid, the one who brings up the MSF KO 08 incident to them will have to answer for it. If they read it in the old thread, I'm sure our BC "living dictionary" and detective ctjcad might be able to help with directions
pssst, Birdwood, if me not mistaken, Badmania was watching the whole Finals live on HK Cable tv. And Badmania is normally fair in his comments and checks his facts 1st. You could have misunderstood some of his statements, I understood Badmania's post different from you but let him explain it himself.
I wrote before to twobeer that everything is possible when playing baddy, the same to LD if he had got to the match point 22-21 LHI to serve. But I can't go around for endless speculation what would happen if that had happened. I only based my judgment on what had happened in the sequence of the score I don't know what this point was and can't comment on I don't guarantee anything. LD did win the next point. We can sit here and argue all day about the possibility and probability, that would not change the fact: LD won the next point. So for MSF KO 08, LD would have won the title I am not to sure that I had extrapolated. I only looked at the scores and I'm closer to the true than any of you. At least I did not break any new ground in the blaming game for sure
Sigh...I hate to argue with ppl....and that's partly because I am not used to arguing and not that good in replying back Apparently, I am not the only one who had that thought: This one comes from chinabadminton.com at 22:16pm 唉 林丹要是象第一局那样狠杀，就没啥争的了！ "Ai....if only Lin Dan was as merciless as the first set...there will be nothing to argue for" 21：4 看李矛还有啥说头？ 裁判怎么去帮 李泫一 的忙？ 战术的改变 技术的失常 酿成的后果就是苦的。 "At 21-4, see whether Li Mao has anything to say? How will the linejudge help Lee Hyun Il? The change in tactics and (drop in skill-level? better translation needed here) led to this bitter result!" Read also ye333 comment's (on bc as well as on chinabadminton.com) on the chronology of events. Lin Dan threw the racket at Li Mao first, before Li Mao reacted back. And who wouldn't react if someone threw a racket at you Tactics and psychological warfare are parts of sports. If you are football fan, then all these are common. Remember how Alex Ferguson winded up Kevin Keegan, such that that guy eventually crumbled under pressure? Manchester United won the League title that year, despite trailing 12 pts behind Newcastle. Read also some of the Chinese's comments about Lin Dan in chinabadminton.com, including those who witnessed the actions live in Seoul. I can quote for you some sentences here: "至于裁判，先说主裁吧，我认为还是公正的，起码比中国公开赛的主裁要公正的很多，好几次有争议的球都判给了林丹，但是我并不是要说关键时候就一定要改判给李玄一，不是这样的。人不是神，谁会没有过错呢？裁判也会出现过错啊。我们看看李玄一吧，当林丹觉得边裁误判的时候，向主裁申述时候的表情和态度，哪像一个高素质的运动员呀？！看看李玄一，什么话都没有说，不会因为把球改判给林丹，而向主裁撒气。就算他撒气也行啊，毕竟是人家的主场啊！边裁，确实是有不公正的地方，确实是的。但是边裁的判罚并没有严重的影响主裁啊！所以说裁判的问题，比中国公开赛要做的好一些，我觉得！ As for the umpire, I would think that he/she's pretty fair, at least better than those at the China Open 2007. Many controversial calls were given to Lin Dan. But, I am not implying that the umpire had to give that last controversial call to Lee Hyun Il. Man is not God, so, anyone can made mistake. Let's look at Lee Hyun Il. When Lin Dan thought the call made by the linejudge was not right, look at his expression when he "complained" about that to the umpire. Does he look like a high-quality sportsman? Now, look at Lee Hyun Il, he's just quiet, and did not utter any single words. He didn't complain or made a fuss even when the umpire overruled the earlier calls to Lin Dan's favor. Even if he did make a fuss, he had the right to do it since this was his homeground anyway! As for the linejudge, indeed, she was biased. However, her calls DID NOT HAVE A SERIOUS IMPACT on the umpire. So, in my humble opinion, I would think that the umpire had done a better job than those umpires at the China Open 2007. 再说说李矛和林丹的争吵，我只想说“本是同根生，相煎何太急！”林丹太冲动，火气太爆，居然扔拍，我觉得目标就是李矛，只不过扔错了方向罢了，呵呵~因此李矛说林丹没有素质也是应该的，我觉得。运动员最起码应该对裁判，长者，前辈，双方的教练都应该尊重，你世界第一就了不起吗？要是没有前辈们为这些后辈铺路搭桥，哪有林丹啊？李矛或多或少的都会影响着中国羽毛球队，即便他完全没有教过林丹。但是他是林丹的前辈，就应该尊重。裁判是的判罚，就应该尊重！ Now....let's take about the argument about Lin Dan and Li Mao. I just want to say "we are all from the same root, so, why should we argue and made the situation turned into a bad one!" Lin Dan was too emotional and hot-tempered to the extent that he even threw that racket, and I think his target was indeed Li Mao, it's just that he threw it in a wrong direction...hehe... So, it was right for Li Mao to say that Lin Lan lacked class and quality as a person. As a sportsman, we should have the basic respect towards the umpire and those ppl who are older than us, coaches of both sides. So what if you are the World No 1? If there were no ex-players who build the foundation, there will not be any Lin Dan. Even though Li Mao had not taught Lin Dan before, he's older than Lin Dan! And Lin Dan should respect him! An Umpire is an Umpire, so, he should be respected as well! As for "bad" line calls, most shuttlers would have expected that, especially if you are playing in Korea. You mention about the psychological effects on Lin Dan. What about Lee Hyun Il? What's his reaction when the umpire overrule those line-calls in favor of Lin Dan? The line calls affected both players...period...but it appeared that you totally discounted the effect on Lee Hyun Il as well. He was under pressure as well, especially at 22-23. He could just have lost that match there....but...he was composed and eventually won the last 3 points of the match Give that man a credit, instead of dwelling on and on about Li Mao's tactics and the controversial line calls. I think this will be the last post I make on this issue. Its time to move on.
