I wonder how they will get in at the world champs? Hope they can play their best and beat the likes of Bo/Mo, KKK/Tan, As/Set and the Chinese.
IMO the LYD/JJS pairing has a more solid defense, generally they are able to hold off their opponent's attack until they find a opportunity to counter attack. On the other hand, the LYD/KSH pairing seems to have a weaker defense, especially KSH. Their defense seem to be easily broken down after a few intense & continuous attacking shots from their opponents.
now i know why i always get blamed Ko might have been a factor in the beginning of the partnership, but recently, it seemed like both ko/lee weren't playing at the top level that they could be playing...and it's a team when you're playing doubles, so you really can't just blame one person. that seems to be very true!!! oh this i gotta watch
^^ can i give two likes ? LoL... I watched the final game live and it was quite true that Hendra/Ahsan had their luck as they got numbers of net-caught but Hendra's deception when he played his dropshots did the damage especially on KSH and Ahsan was keep smashing like crazy with a very steep angle. On the 2nd game, I thought KSH/LYD would have played better after Ha Tae Kwon gave some advices and their rallies had actually improved with some winning points. They maintained a close gap on the score board but they looked like very nervous at the ending points. KSH and LYD are very good players individually with their own playing style but as a pair, I don't see the "chemistry" is strong enough for them to build a solid partnership.
Hendra is amazing with his intercepts and net kills, he just read the game so well. I believe LYD/KSH is not bad and rate them better than other pairs including CM/MB or Chinese No 2 pair LYL-QZH
Found this video on Youtube, would be interesting for LYD fans : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQKN_Cg3wVI
I remembered I was quite pessimistic abt this pairing right from the start...but there were many others here supporting them saying that overtime Ko will improve.....I guess the results speak for itself.
I saw quite a few errors from LYD in that match. Of course anyone's entitled to their own opinion, but imop LYD has gone downhill since the Olympics. Ko may or may not be the ideal partner for him, but LYD really makes a lot of unforced errors these days. Still, you say you were pessimistic from the beginning.....so if they're not that good, how come they're still ranked #1? I mean I'm as disappointed as the next guy, but to repeat the whole "I knew this wasn't gonna work" charade every time they lose and regarding every victory as one time thing or claiming the opponents were bad is really stupid. The thing is - Korea couldn't have kept their dream team playing because JJS retired. Who else should play with LYD? Ko has without question the best smash of the remaining team, which is basically what Jung was supposed to deliver in the partnership. In the Ko/Yoo partnership, Ko was stronger, and Shin just isn't suited to LYD imop. Korea is also not known to play around with the MD partnerships (unlike China), so I don't really see what all the whining is supposed to achieve...
Not sure about this latest loss as it's blocked on youtube here in Canada, but the other games have consistently been Ko's excessive errors. All players make mistakes, and LYD may have been making more than before with JJS (I'm not confirming - I haven't counted), but even so, with a erratic partner prone to crumble under pressure, one starts to make higher-risk shots trying to force the point before the weak partner commits the error. 1) They are Koreans, as such they work like dogs and play in lots (too many?) tournaments and since they usually reach late stages, if not the final, they collect lots of points. 2) The Chinese (+Boe/Mog?) are more judicious in their selection of which tournaments to participate. Chinese domestic competition is of very high caliber and plentiful. My question to you is how does #1 rank team fall out so early? No you're not. You may be as disappointed as the next "ambivalent" or "casual" or "impartial" guy, but if you were a true fan of this team, then you'd be pulling your hair out with the rest of us when Ko makes his silly errors and gifts points, and sometimes games, away. So how many tournaments and games do they have to unduly lose before you give ear to merited criticism regarding this (specifically Ko partnering with LYD) What is your whining about true fans whining about the partnership supposed to achieve? If you have an intelligent comment to contribute about this MD team (which this thread is specifically about), then great. If not, don't come in and complain about adults having a boisterous debate.
That might have been the case in the beginning, but the last couple tournaments, Ko has made less errors (yes, he still makes unforced errors/errors JJS wouldn't have made, otoh, he scores points JJS wouldn't have too....which is more important is a matter of personal opinion). LYD made a lot of errors, and not only on risky shots he took to avoid Ko getting the shuttle (personally I don't think he does/did that more than with JJS), but on regular, 100%-his shots. As only 10 tournaments go towards the ranking and GPG have significantly less points than SS/PSS, that argument is really not valid. The only team in the Top 10 with less than 10 tournaments is Shin/Yoo. Every contender for the top spot has more than 10, also accounting for one or two tournaments with bad form. Right now, everybody is right where they belong in the MD ranking. Bad preparation, unlucky opponents (ones the coaches haven't done any research on), or just a day off or general drop in form. You mentioned their high workload with lots of tournaments - might have sth to do with that And how would you know I'm not? I'm actually very frustrated with their early losses here and at the AE. However I'm not coming to the same quick conclusion that "It's all Ko's fault". I remember LYD losing a match no one would've predicted him to lose before on the big stage. The OG semi-final, where after a year of trashing the Danes so badly they ran home crying for their mothers, they suddenly lost...and no one in the world will tell you that was all Jung's fault. Of course they lost not only because of the last point, but that one was a shot LYD judged to go out dropping in by at least 5 inches, which in world elite terms was insanely bad judgement. Ohhhh. I see what you did there. I'm a kid. Genius. That's a mature argument right there, contributing perfectly to your "boisterous" debate about just how badly Ko sucks. Me being of a different opinion than you does not make me (or my comments) stupid. Also, as much as some of you would like that, the losses of this MD pair are not solely Ko's fault. He makes errors, he doesn't have quite the same defense as Jung did - but never have I seen anyone criticizing him admit that he's got qualities Jung didn't have. And it doesn't make LYD's errors his. Playing MD is playing in a team, so you lose and win as a team. Ko may have weaknesses, and those are getting exploited. Lee, however, has weaknesses as well, which are being exploited too. When you play MD and your partner has a weak game, you do what you can to raise it. Maybe you play more aggressively and step forward more to take a couple shots you normally wouldn't, maybe you just encourage him between rallies and tell him to stop blaming himself. Today, LYD played really crappy, and not like his pre-Olympic self. He made many errors and often opened up the court by making bad choices of shot. Still I'm not saying it's his fault alone they lost and whine how Ko should be paired with someone who doesn't hold his nose so high he drowns when it rains.
"Me being of a different opinion than you does not make me (or my comments) stupid. " Absolutely right. But characterizing someone else's reasoned opinion as "whining" is most certainly disrespectful, if not counter-productive as I showed how anyone else can then accuse you of the same. You summed the debate as being "about just how badly Ko sucks". I wouldn't say "Ko sucks", though it often felt that way in recent losses. Are some of us casting a halo over LYD, as if he could do no wrong? I hope not; and I'm no teen girl who's got a mad crush for him. But for a world-leading doubles player with arguably the best defense when he's in the zone, to be paired with someone so inconsistent as Ko is akin to taking two steps forward and three back. It also leads to poor morale or team spirit; one can only be so patient with a partner. Ko failing to return a hard smash is one thing. but missing a drive into the net or missing a net shot altogether is surely beyond-frustrating at that level. So some of us here have stated that Ko is not the best partner for LYD, despite the fact he is the hardest smasher. My comment in the past was that it would be interesting to see LYD paired with either Kim Sa Rang, or Yoo YS, both of whom put tremendous pressure on their opponents through smart, aggressive plays. So if LYD played that poorly today, it does not bolster the Ko advocates with the argument "see, LYD makes mistakes too!" Rather, two immediate questions: 1) Why did he play so poorly, and 2) Is his partnership with Ko boosting or bogging him?
Ko has improved since the partnership and Lee has been going the opposite direction since the Olympics!
There is no doubt LYD is a very talented player. However, IMO, there seem to be an over emphasis on his brilliance because of the phenomenal success he attained at a young age. After LHJ and JJS retirement, he can't seem to regain the top form of his winning/successful XD and MD partnerships. To me, this indicates that personal brilliance is not enough, one''s partner is very important too. IMO, JJS's importance in their pairing seem to be overlooked in face of LYD's "halo". To me, JJS is the low profile, stoic player who covers the back court really well, working in the background to keep the shuttle alive, using his smashes to help set up LYD for the kill. I guess many did not realise how much he contributed to the success of the partnership until the LYD/KSH pairing came about. Just my two cents worth
This statement is certainly not true! Korea is known to be experimenting with its doubles pairs to find the most lethal combination. I remember they shuffled several pairs before they came up with Ko Sung Hyun/Yoo Yeon Seong combination. Ko used to partner Kwon Yi Goo in the early days, while Yoo partnered Cho Gun Woo (who himself was Lee's partner for the junior tourneys). They also experimented by parterning Lee with Ko in 2011 for the US Open GPG and Canada Open GP and ended up winning the 2 titles. Lee regrouped with Jung for the subsequent tourney (WC 2011).
Well, personally I have the suspicion that LYD had either a confidence crisis after the OG SF loss or deemed himself as too good to play with Ko when they first started their partnership. We all noticed his annoyed gestures and reactions after every mistake Ko made, sometimes even when he set it up (e.g. by lifting 1m short). Personally I see Ko's defense as quite solid, even by Korean standards. He is also starting to vary it more, regularly turning defense into attack by whipping the shuttle crosscourt over the net player. Jung was indeed even more solid, but also had a weakness - he'd always lift. CY/FHF were starting to get the hang of playing him around the '11 WC, and the only real victory the Koreans got against them after that was the '12 AE final. Concerning the option of other partners - I feel the Koreans dont want to split up the quite successful pairing of Kim/Kim who have a lot of potential. The Thomas Cup matches of LYD/KSR were indeed quite promising (as KSR has many similarities to Jung in his style, being very very quick around the court and preferring to put pressure on the opponents by never ever letting the pace drop). YYS, imop, is most certainly not a better partner for LYD than KSH. In the original YYS/KSH pairing, the coaches started to develop YYS as more of a net player because his back court play is actually not special in any way, his smashes are quite good, but he can't maintain a very high smash speed consistently and is often quite uncreative in his attack. While Ko is also often a bit single-minded, he maintains great angles and pretty high speeds, making his attack noticeably better. Partnering Shin with Lee would probably create a very dangerous pair, as both would be very happy to follow their attack forwards and thus be a more 'even' combination, but Shin is -in my opinion- the weakest MD player in the current Top 3 pairs (not by much, though) and can't maintain hard attacking play from the back either. His partnership with Yoo is actually probably the best in the current team, as both have a nice all-court game, with good attack and speed of movement, and as both can attack well from the back, it doesn't have to be only one of them who smashes all day. Let me rephrase that - once they've established a combination, they're very unlikely to break it up, preferring to work out the weaknesses of an existing pair rather than creating new pairs frequently with new weaknesses of their own. The US and Canada Open are also not too much of an experiment - JJS was injured and couldn't play anyway, and Lee needed the XD ranking points. It was an opportunity to test out the pairing beforehand, so they sent Ko along, but had Lee not needed those XD points, I very much doubt either of them would've played those tournaments as normally their 'A-team' doesn't play them (inconvenient as they don't give too many points and there is no SS near them, other than the German and Swiss Open which are held just before and after the AE and also in the same region, making it much more convenient in terms of time and travel). Personally I think this pair should play less tournaments (no more than 14 a year) and train more. We've seen improvement from Ko in his weakest areas, a little more time spent covering this pairs weaknesses could actually make them the incredible combination everyone had hoped for.
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Ko if you guys watched the game on live streaming, then you'd understand that it's Rexy's hard work that's paying off. Since Bona Septano and Mohd Ahsan were separated, they've only become more lethal. Yes both of them. You can compare it to their game during the Olympics, which I thought was on itself quite impressive. Rexy's goal for this year is to have 3-4 pairs from Indonesia in the top 10. Chances are he may just achieve it.
One word: uninspired. That's how they've been playing recently... both Ko and Lee himself. No way they can handle Ahsan/Setiawan if they can't even manage this new INA pair.
