thats was quick! i may have misread your post from the start because your original title tells one thing and your opening statement another but now the mod is kind to change for you, i do see your point in this thread. actually one doesn't need to do a h2h count to see who is the best player! btw, what i have read so far, i can't figure out this: you got all the statistic of all the potential top players and it looks like lin dan is top, followed by lcw then chen jin and now you pick chen jin as no.2 just because you think some people will rate him so? then whats the point of your h2h count? please make up your mind or i am still misreading your post lol
I do not share your opinion on this... To me the randomness is not the main factor here. It is more related to styles. Each player has his own forte and weakness. LD and LCW are overall better players than CH and SDK, but that doesn't mean CH and SDK's victories are mainly due to luck. (In fact, the 5:5 H2H between CH and LD is a bit not fair to CH -- CH was very sick during the Japan Open final -- there is a video of this match). About BCL, if you watch BCL's early games in 02-03, he had something he does not have today: Speed. The speed of young, injury-free BCL, combined with his height/reach, makes him a lethal attacker, which he has not been anymore since 2006. To summarize, I would not use "randomness" to explain the H2H of two players over a long period like 5+ years. There has to be some deeper reason.
the h2h count maybe something interesting to follow but it also has something missing i think you may have given us some clue there
..then the categories/criterias will be a combined one (H2H + winning titles + winning major titles)..different thread/topic than this.. Which one are you after?.. ..there you have it. But that only counts for the current active MS players. Also, a few folks mentioned CH having almost equal H2H with LD. If CH has a better overall H2H records vs. any of the current top 10, then he might be considered as no.2. If we want to count this decade, then we have to consider CH's playing career and H2H records vs. any of today's 10 top players. here's the related thread: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?25092-Malaysian-Open-Quarter-Finals (post #75).. As far as i'm concerned, complete or not, LD vs. CH's H2H record is pretty much even. As for the mention of the Asian Games being higher than the SS, despite the event being held every 4 yrs, it is not an IBF/BWF sanctioned event (at least in the past; maybe they are changing the status now). The reason is, unlike the Olympics Games, it only allows a limited number of participants from certain regions. If they are to give a higher ranking level to the Asian Games, then how about the Commonwealth Games (which is also a quadrennial event)?
Sorry to make you guys confused. My question is simple, who's the 2nd best player now? It's a very subjective question. No reason needed. Just tell me from the bottom of your heart. I'm not sure myself. That's the reason I did some h2h and title winning records research. I'm not talking about how to evaluate a player, not talking about overall history, not talking about Chen Hong or other retirees. I just want to know what do you think who's the 2nd best? For myself, I would say LCW's 2nd best before the WC, but now, I am not sure. Either Chen Jin or LCW should be the 2nd best. Other players are far falling behind. I also think LD is the best, not worth to argue. If you guys disagree, please list your order for the best players. There is no rule how to calculate, just personal opinion. Thanks for everyone's input. Please totally ignore the h2h stuff which I used to check how good they are myself. Although bwf has the ranking, what I try to have is a personal power ranking; because I don't believe the bwf ranking and the real capabilities of the players are the same thing. Of course it's a personal ranking, therefore, everyone should come up with different list. Here is mine: 1. Lin Dan 2. Chen Jin or Lee CW 3. Bao CL, Taufik, Gade, Sony 4. Chen Long, Simon Santoso, Ponsana, Park SH 5. Shon WH, NTM, Tago, JOJ, Hafiz
..here's the dilemma. Some say if CJ had met LCW in the MS Final of the 2010 WC, based on their H2H record, LCW would have the upper hand. But since it never materialized, we would never know if indeed CJ or LCW would win. Thus we can only go by their H2H record and wait for their next H2H meeting to see if indeed LCW is 2nd best now (if LCW wins) or CJ has overtaken him (if CJ wins).
I just realized that there is no reason for reasoning. Lin Dan had a big upper hand against Park, so what? LD should be listed after Park? Could you just kindly and frankly give your power ranking list? Thanks
- I'm going with H2H record and then overall accomplishment. LD over PSH. Btw, why bring up LD and PSH? - I've given my power ranking list (who's no.2) in post #3 and pretty much concur with your list in post #6 (basically going with H2H record).
thanks for your input. Already saw that. You are the only one helped me answering this tough question.
actually this h2h thing was brought up before in one of the threat and more or less the same thing on lcw and lin dan by the response from bc members one can tell eventually its more like a personal opinion and the discussion going way too long and it ended up with warnings from the mod here's the blog: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...-discussions-were-so-long........-PART-1-of-2 http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...-discussions-were-so-long........-PART-2-of-2
pBM, it's thread!!! My personal opinion, albeit biased but from the bottom of my heart, the second best player is still LCW. Talking about the WC, we should see what the draw had thrown to CJ : Ville Lang, Kestusis Navickas, Ashton Chen, Hsuan Yi Hsueh, Peter Hoeg Gade, Taufik Hidayat The names I had highlighted in bold are the only ones who are accomplished and are known to have beaten top players. So, although he definitely battle his way from R64 to the title, he had only defeated TWO top players. In a normal SS tournament, people would think that LCW would have no problem winning this title. WC... again, big match mentality. But does that count to a player being better than another? And I don't think we can argue that LCW, on his normal day can defeat those two players. Of course, ironically in the WC LCW lost to Taufik Hidayat. I mentioned the AG as LCW and CJ's meeting platform earlier, not about who would be stronger in that event as LCW is still not fully fit (back injury!) If LCW is fully fit by the Japan Open, then we can use that platform.
But we can proof it in an objective matter, if he mind about being subjective I just realised this is my 1000th post.......yuhuu...
does BEST H2H = BEST?? OK here's my list: Rudy Hartono Lin Dan Taufik Hidayat Liem Swie King Yang Yang I came to that conclusion weeks ago How dare you putting PSH same place as BP???? . . . . . . . . . . . Just kidding.................
It is already so obvious unless you wanna to officiate that title to him. On someone mention that the Asian game shouldn't be more prestige than the SS events for whatever reasons he may state, then why on earth his idol LD main target for now is to win the AG2010 and devil may care for the SS? How irony is that? Or could it be for the first time I share a common thoughts with LD Go figure out. As for his comparison on the Commonwealth Games with the Asian Games, the fact that both are held quadrennially is the only similarity and the parallelism ends there. Beside Malaysia, the rest of the badminton powerhouse such as China, Indonesia and Korea are missing. So would the competition level the same? He knows that for sure but why the "....." comparison? Just for the sake to argue or could it be that common sense does not prevail anymore nowadays on certain level?
