Cooler, I know you are very smart. Thanks for pointing that out. And I know you always want to point others out that are stupid. But he was stating that the present players can outdo the past players, which he brought in the comparison of speed between past and present competitors in the same field, which I disagree, especially in court games. I was not comparing roddick with the sprinter. I was comparing roddick with previous tennis players. I was not comparing Tiger with sprinters. I was comparing Tiger with previous Golf players. I was just trying to say that even with great strides made in speed and power, we still have the best players not needing to have the best speed and the highest power to be a champion. Seems you are very condescending when others make opinions that are not to your high standards. And I did not cherry pick my statements to make me look good. So I shall stop here, and you can carry on with your sarcasm with others.
u r wasting a lot of energy beating around the bush and repeating yourself. Why don't u save some energy with just giving me 1 reply for: In order to prove wongegg's example as invalid, u have to find: 1. find a sprinter of the past that can out do today's sprinter. or 2. find another sport when past athletes can out do today best.
But you also have to note that the guy with the fastest serve doesn't mean he's the best player player though, look at golf, they have the longest drive contest and those guys can smoke even Tiger Woods in distance but they will never make the PGA tour because they suck in the other aspect of the game. I think you have to look at the overall package of the player, and today's players are faster, more powerful and fit than players of previous years due to technological advances and their training methods etc... Look at Bojrn Borg in tennis when he tried to come back, he was a top tennis player, but when he tried to come back he got beat by even journeyman players... I know you're trying to say there are things like court sense and intelligence, but if you don't have the speed and power behind your play, it just won't work... Look at F1, Lewis Hamilton, Kimi Raikonen and Alonso are supposed to be the best drivers out there, but they didn't win this year because their car sucked... (Kinda like you have the technique and smarts but you are just not fast and powerful enough)
good question. I say it is more so valid for 1 vs 1 or 1 vs all others(ex. bolt vs other sprinters). In a team sport, it is harder to assess individual's true ability relative to other players of other teams. By just adding 1 extra player, like in doubles, the comparision is complex enough already. Look at the thread about who's the best MD pair, hard to say, that's why i did not participate discussion in the thread, it can't be or it's hard to be conclusive about it. For soccer team with even more players, comparison is even harder. However, i have to say pele is the best in his own time period framework. Even for Rudy Hartono for winning record # of AE titles, is he's the best, i say no. He accomplished that because there were very little competition at his time period. Viver had told us that chinese players were even better but do not play due to politics. To dominate a sport today is way way harder than the olden days.
thx for the additonal info. I had pounded the table on this topic many times before. I'm willing to exclude power in the comparion. Without speed, the old greats make great pro coaches, not pro players. Oh some would say, not fair comparison, they are older now but if u compare them (previous generation pros with today's pros, at similar age and condition, the answer is still obvious. My advice to them, just good watch some old films on how fast and powerful those previous pros play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkxDcA4qnsA sampras has to take a rest break even when he didn't has to hit the ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-1qYRqf4DA highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esKqYhgnQcY&NR=1&feature=fvwp did u got it backward? enuff said about sampras vs federer
It was an exhibition match, with exhibition being the keyword... I don't think the end result will be a 3 set tie-break thriller if this was in a grandslam match... A better example could be when Michael Jordan came back with the Washington Wizards in the NBA, while Michael was and is still considered the best basketball player ever, he is not the best when he came back with the wizards, while his stats are respectable, it is because he was on a very poor team with him as the only good player(being part owner sure helps get you the ball)
^^Off topic-Air Jordan..^^ ..when he played with Da Bulls, Air Jordan was playing in a pretty much watered down league...Da Bulls was the only dominant team..I mean, which player or which team was Air Jordan's/Da Bulls' main rival??..
Serving the fastest in tennis surely won't bring you a win, but a faster court coverage will. We are not saying today's player has only stronger smashes in badminton, but they also has a fitter body so they can reach the shuttle quicker for their advantage. Additionally, some people believe that the players from past has better skills and technique and that I also disagree. I remember someone was pointing out that the double players from the past era can defend better and able to keep the rally for longer. However, lifting the shuttle up high is actually a secondary option and the best way to counter smashes is to drive them back so you can regain the initiative. Look at MK/HS's game, fast and flat and they won't even let their opponent to smash at them to begin with.
allow me to add, on the technique side of things as well. In general, like wongegg said, past pros don't own all the techniques. let me give an example, 1974 AE, hartono versus Gunalan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAXvT3jtFTY even the commentator had noted that Gunalan is employing smashing and rush to the net tactic. Even in game 3, Hartono was still serving high serves. Gunalan won lotta points smashing at hartono's serves, as clean winners and/or leading up to a winning rally. Even Gunalan (4:24) serves low to make hartono lift and smash for a winner. Surely, even a junior MS of today knows that u don't do high serves especially when opponent is using smash and grab tactic. Yes, hartono won but i think with his other skills (and many of Gunalan unforced errors). Point is, such simple change of tactic wasn't even recognized by a veteran pro.
I loath to give my two cents worth on a working day but this thread I couldnt resist. Someone post that how Li Yong Bo/Tian B Y couldnt be better that FHF/CY. I think it was Cooler but I could be wrong. To things in perspective. This is what I observed. In 1992 Olympics, The top four of the world made it to the top four of the Olympics. In the quarter finals, Tian By/ Li Y B beat the hard smashing and creative Cheah Soon Kit and Soo Beng Kiang. Their younger opponents represented the new way things were done, fast drop shots, lightning fast and steep smashes. Yet they beat them. Rexy and Ricky were also the way to the future and if you see their match with Cheah and Soo in TC 1992 you will see the future. But in 1992, Rexy and Ricky were still struggling against Sideks. Cheah later partnered Yap Kim Hock to rival Rexy and Ricky. yet Park and Han beat Cheah and Yap in 1996!! Cheah and yap in turn beat Lee and Yoo 1998. Where does all these leading to? Well through out 1998, when Kim and Ha and Lee and Yoo were on the ascendant the old Cheah and Yap could still hold their on as well as rexy and Ricky. Now imagine this, Lee Wan Wah and Choong T F were the second pair for malaysia and they could nt beat CHeah and yap until the CW final in 1998. And This Lee Wan Wah and Choong could beat FHF/CY consistently most notably in 2004 AE Semi final and the WC in 2006. So Can you say that Tian B Y / Li yong Bo cant beat FHF/CY?
Thank You Sonnymak. Yes, I remember those times. I also remember a few years back when Misbun was already in his 40's but he still entered a few state open tournaments and actually managed to beat some current national players.
Let's not underestimate Lin Dan and only praise him for his speed and power. He is defo carrying more than INTEL INSIDE to stay so well ahead of his competition
TH used to beat LCW consistently before 2005, but is it the case today??? Nope. Also if you look at the H2H in MD LYD/JJS > MK/HS MK/HS > CY/FHF And so can we say LYD/JJS is definitely better than CY/FHF? I don't think so. Even they all from the same era. I am sure if I have all data with me I could trace backward to show LD is better than ZJH using your logic. LOL
first, off topic. i know of a sonny mak here that i play with, he's MAS too second, no, it wasn't me who said that. I try to stay out of head to head comparison on doubles if u care to read my prior postings. third, since u mentioned me, let me give it a try. your comparision was FLAWED u r comparing red apples with green apples. a fairer way is to compare them at their similar maturity and development, like peak to peak phase. If we have a time machine, and turn back time for lyb/tby to their peak form, and then plop them down in a court right now with fu/cai at their peak form, who will win? i say fu/cai will win. fourth, same goes wif your other examples of comparing red apples with crab apples or green apples.
thx for your note. Yes, very little mention of that dept for LD. don't know if u saw my skill pyramid, yes, there are 2 others qualities (IMO) that ride above speed and power but i didn't talk about it, because i don't need to yet Let say, i'm still winning by playing wif my left (non-dominating hand, just like LD hehehe
