BWF to implement a replay system to check disputes over line calls

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by chris-ccc, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Badminton: BWF postpones use of review technology

    http://www.straitstimes.com/breakin...-bwf-postpones-use-review-technology-20130603

    The Straits Times
    Published on Jun 03, 2013
    9:55 PM



    KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - The Badminton World Federation (BWF) said on Monday that it was delaying indefinitely the live implementation of line-call review technology to address "last-minute issues" that have cropped up in testing.

    Line calls are a flashpoint in badminton, with players often complaining about officials making erroneous or biased decisions, and the sport plans to follow tennis and football in using technology to reduce the risk of human error.

    After testing its system in the Malaysian Open this year and last month's Sudirman Cup in Kuala Lumpur, the sport's world governing body had planned to go live at next week's Indonesia Open.

    Instead, the BWF "will continue testing the line-call technology in an effort to resolve some last-minute issues which arose during the recent testing", it said in a statement.
     
  2. skchen

    skchen Regular Member

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    The technology is well-proven and badminton is not a faster sport than football and yet it could be implemented successfully for the latter.
     
  3. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Are you talking about soccer? If so those guys are at about 110mph and that is usually a once in a match occasion if that. The camera only has to cover the goal face which I would imagine would be pretty easy big ball and a sphere.

    Badminton has many, many lines to be covered and they run in different directions. Also the camera needs to be able to film the cork bit as it is this part that determines in or out. I would reckon they will need to get clever with camera angles, test and test to see if they can get a setup that covers all the shots. The alternative would be to use a hell of a lot of cameras(probably quite expensive and not viable)
     
  4. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    So I guess they want perfect line accuracy calls, unlike in football (american), hockey, baseball etc. where even if there is replay, it is still the final decision of the referee whether the play will be overturned with sufficient evidence.
     
  5. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    If it's going to be like tennis where the player can challenge a call and the instant replay is displayed on the big screen for spectators to get into the action, then yes, they better have a definite and accurate system where it's obvious to everyone whether it's in or out. Obviously then, no point in having the referee make a decision because everyone can see for themselves. As in tennis... :)
     
  6. i800Yoty

    i800Yoty Regular Member

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  7. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

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    In league matches, you often see that players will make calls against themselves where their opponents didn't see where the shuttle landed.

    Can international players do that? If Matthias or Boe had said to the umpire, yup, that shuttle was in, could the umpire then have overruled the line judge?

    Whether they ever would do that is a separate question. I'm sure some would argue that line judge errors are part of the game and you should take the good with the bad, so just leave it to chance and not interfere. They say the same about referee mistakes in football.
     
  8. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

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    Oops, I meant Mogensen or Boe, obviously...
     
  9. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    If there are any doubts ......

    .
    Even if players have good intentions to make the correct call, players do make mistakes too.

    Therefore, IMHO, if there are any doubts (whether between players, umpires, line judges, fans, etc, etc, ......), it is best to call for an instant replay to be displayed on the big screen.
    .
     
  10. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I hear a lot of people talking about this big screen thing and the crowd involvement etc for the replays. Is this an assumption? or is this actually the way they have said they would do it?
    If someone could point me to the link, thanks.
     
  11. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    Badminton has many, many lines to be covered and they run in different directions. Also the camera needs to be able to film the cork bit as it is this part that determines in or out. I would reckon they will need to get clever with camera angles, test and test to see if they can get a setup that covers all the shots. The alternative would be to use a hell of a lot of cameras(probably quite expensive and not viable)[/QUOTE]

    I don't think the cork determines in or out, but any part of the shuttle that clip the line makes it in.
    Anyway, I don't see the logic with this "use this SS for testing ground". If it is the equipment they are testing, any club would do. The BWF could use any national association to test the material, they don't need the official competition for that.
     
  12. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I have never seen any other part land first. But you are wrong about any part of the shuttle clipping the line. It is the initial contact with the surface that is the call. If cork lands out first then the skirt clips the line it is still out.
     
  13. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    that's right... i've only heard of commentators mentioning the cork being in or out, never referring to the feather skirt at all
     
  14. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    It does make sense that way. It is just that once in a tourney GC mentionend otherwise, saying that if the feathers hit the line it is good, though that is rare. I was surprise to hear that so I still remember it. Maybe a check at the BWF site is needed.
     
  15. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Feather touching the ground before the cork? Anyone seen it before?
     
  16. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Possibly if it rolls over the tape and is still tumbling when it hits the ground, but can't imagine how else.
     
  17. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    yeah, it is possible. But anyone seen it?
     
  18. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    The thing is, you cannot makes this difference, which part count or which part doesn't count. Any part of the shuttle that hit the line makes it in.
    beside, at the end of a flat trajectory, specially with a lot of spin, the shuttle falls quite flat.
     
  19. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    If iit never happens that other part of the cork touches first the floor, then there is no complication for the camera. If any part that touches the floor count, and it sometimes happens that it is not the cork, the camera can spot it also easily. Only in the case that the cork only count and sometimes other part touches the ground first it is problematic. But thatnis such a fuss! I can' beleive the BWF would make this difference. I see no reason to delay the usenof cameras in that.
     
  20. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    The tumbling scenario is obviously a possibility but not any other regular shot, "Flat" or otherwise, air resistance on the skirt is far greater than the cork causing the cork to dip and there is an angle between height of net and back line just making it not possible. There is a thread somewhere else about this topic and some claimed it was possible but they never included air resistance effect so were wrong.

    The Feathers clip the line all the time after the cork has hit the surface this is not in, but thank you [MENTION=63377]renbo[/MENTION], I think this might be quite a few peoples perception and for sure should be more defined by bwf in the rules or elsewhere
     

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