Haha, you remember that i was desperately want to play with old AT700. I managed to find it . Our fellow BCer, clawhammers, sold his to me, i have not strung it though
@demolidor These are my data points accumulated on the rackets I've owned over the past 2 years. [TABLE="width: 500"] [TR] [TD][TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"] [TR] [TD]Racket [/TD] [TD]Bare wt [/TD] [TD]Bare head wt [/TD] [TD]Playing wt [/TD] [TD]Play head wt [/TD] [TD]Playing bp [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Trinity2 [/TD] [TD]84.7g [/TD] [TD]36.2g [/TD] [TD]94.5g [/TD] [TD]39.9g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Trinity2 [/TD] [TD]83.9g [/TD] [TD]35.6g [/TD] [TD]93.7g [/TD] [TD]39.3g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]TrinityPro [/TD] [TD]86.0g [/TD] [TD]38.4g [/TD] [TD]95.8g [/TD] [TD]42.1g [/TD] [TD]295mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]MX80 [/TD] [TD]85.1g [/TD] [TD]37.6g [/TD] [TD]94.9g [/TD] [TD]41.3g [/TD] [TD]293mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]MX70 [/TD] [TD]87.3g [/TD] [TD]38.6g [/TD] [TD]97.0g [/TD] [TD]42.3g [/TD] [TD]295mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]MX70 [/TD] [TD]84.3g [/TD] [TD]38.0g [/TD] [TD]94.0g [/TD] [TD]41.7g [/TD] [TD]296mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]MX60 [/TD] [TD]87.1g [/TD] [TD]38.3g [/TD] [TD]96.6g [/TD] [TD]42.0g [/TD] [TD]295mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]MX80 friend1 [/TD] [TD]89.5g [/TD] [TD]39.9g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]43.6g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]MX80 friend2 [/TD] [TD]88.4g [/TD] [TD]38.9g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]42.6g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]MX80 friend3 [/TD] [TD]90.0g [/TD] [TD]40.1g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]43.8g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BS12 [/TD] [TD]86.7g [/TD] [TD]37.8g [/TD] [TD]96.5g [/TD] [TD]41.2g [/TD] [TD]286mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]SW30 [/TD] [TD]85.1g [/TD] [TD]37.4g [/TD] [TD]94.8g [/TD] [TD]41.1g [/TD] [TD]292mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]VT80 [/TD] [TD]82.8g [/TD] [TD]38.7g [/TD] [TD]92.5g [/TD] [TD]42.4g [/TD] [TD]305mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]VTZF [/TD] [TD]82.1g [/TD] [TD]38.6g [/TD] [TD]91.8g [/TD] [TD]42.3g [/TD] [TD]307mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]VTZF friend [/TD] [TD]86.5g [/TD] [TD]40.4g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]44.1g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]PrecisionPro1 [/TD] [TD]86.9g [/TD] [TD]37.4g [/TD] [TD]96.2g [/TD] [TD]41.1g [/TD] [TD]289mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]PrecisionPro2 [/TD] [TD]87.2g [/TD] [TD]38.9g [/TD] [TD]96.5g [/TD] [TD]42.2g [/TD] [TD]294mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]PrecisionPro3 [/TD] [TD]88.0g [/TD] [TD]38.7g [/TD] [TD]97.4g [/TD] [TD]42.0g [/TD] [TD]292mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]PrecisionPro4 [/TD] [TD]87.6g [/TD] [TD]38.3g [/TD] [TD]96.9g [/TD] [TD]41.6g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Revelation1 [/TD] [TD]86.6g [/TD] [TD]37.1g [/TD] [TD]96.2g [/TD] [TD]40.4g [/TD] [TD]285mm [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"] [TR] [TD]Revelation2 [/TD] [TD]88.0g [/TD] [TD]38.3g [/TD] [TD]97.3g [/TD] [TD]41.6g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Revelation friend [/TD] [TD]87.9g [/TD] [TD]38.9g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]42.6g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]RKEP Pro9000 [/TD] [TD]85.5g [/TD] [TD]37.8g [/TD] [TD]95.2g [/TD] [TD]41.5g [/TD] [TD]292mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]RKEP Pro9000 [/TD] [TD]85.7g [/TD] [TD]37.7g [/TD] [TD]95.4g [/TD] [TD]41.4g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]RKEP XP70 [/TD] [TD]84.2g [/TD] [TD]37.7g [/TD] [TD]93.5g [/TD] [TD]41.0g [/TD] [TD]293mm [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Bare = no string, no overgrip Playing = string and grip Grip is RKEP Elite G09 white overgrip As mentioned before, the white grip adds 0.7g, VS850 and ZM67 adds 3.0g, ZM65 adds 2.8g, and ZM62 adds 2.6g to the head weight.
I am so intrigued to buy the precision pro...... Since visor have 4 of those.. Still considering between Precision pro vs VTZF4U, MX804U, & 700PR 4U
[MENTION=35343]Licin[/MENTION] : My favorite was PPro3, but unfortunately I killed it in a clash when it was only 4 weeks old. :cry: So now #4 is the replacement, but just a tad less oomph than #3. I'm currently enjoying the Revelation #2 which was chosen to have the exact same head wt as PPro3 . Has tad better feel for touch shots, eg excellent drops, net play, pushes, brushes. This makes it amazing for service and return in doubles games. Also easy power from slightly flexier shaft, making it great for defence, deep shots and cracking smashes when you need it. Only downside is drives are tad slower and less precise due to flexier shaft. MX80 too stiff, causing shoulder pain. MX70 is better, more user friendly. As you can see, my preference for doubles is still for powerful but aerodynamic frames. The VT80 and VTZF are great for singles games, but there's too much head wt there for me for fast doubles play and the non aero frame is noticeably slower still when compared to aero frame of the same head wt. Eg. my 3U MX70 vs. my 4U VZTF in that table above. Both bare and playing head wt are exactly the same, but the MX70 swings faster.
[MENTION=57143]visor[/MENTION] : i am really sorry for your lost in PPro3. 4 weeks old is just too fast. Glad that you have found its substitute. Thanks a lot for your explanation above, It is really informative. Additionally your table are providing very useful facts. I have believed and certainly agree that head weight & playing weight are straightforward when we about to buy a racket, it is like a pin pointer. For example, if we are quite comfortable using 4U VTZF, and we want to buy a racket from Victor, we might choose Victor racket from 4U category, while from your data and supported by your experience 4U VTZF are more similar to 3U MX70 rather than 4U MX70. Have we not measure our racket preference specs, we might end up buy a wrong racket.
Update [TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"] [TR] [TD] [TABLE] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]Racket [/TD] [TD]Bare wt [/TD] [TD]Bare head wt [/TD] [TD]Playing wt [/TD] [TD]Play head wt [/TD] [TD]Playing bp [/TD] [TD]Calculated play bp* [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]Trinity2 [/TD] [TD]84.7g [/TD] [TD]36.2g [/TD] [TD]94.5g [/TD] [TD]39.9g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [TD]285mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]Trinity2 [/TD] [TD]83.9g [/TD] [TD]35.6g [/TD] [TD]93.7g [/TD] [TD]39.3g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [TD]283mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]TrinityPro [/TD] [TD]86.0g [/TD] [TD]38.4g [/TD] [TD]95.8g [/TD] [TD]42.1g [/TD] [TD]295mm [/TD] [TD]296mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]MX80 [/TD] [TD]85.1g [/TD] [TD]37.6g [/TD] [TD]94.9g [/TD] [TD]41.3g [/TD] [TD]293mm [/TD] [TD]294mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]MX70 [/TD] [TD]87.3g [/TD] [TD]38.6g [/TD] [TD]97.0g [/TD] [TD]42.3g [/TD] [TD]295mm [/TD] [TD]294mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]MX70 [/TD] [TD]84.3g [/TD] [TD]38.0g [/TD] [TD]94.0g [/TD] [TD]41.7g [/TD] [TD]296mm [/TD] [TD]299mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]MX60 [/TD] [TD]87.1g [/TD] [TD]38.3g [/TD] [TD]96.6g [/TD] [TD]42.0g [/TD] [TD]295mm [/TD] [TD]294mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]MX80 friend1 [/TD] [TD]89.5g [/TD] [TD]39.9g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]43.6g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]MX80 friend2 [/TD] [TD]88.4g [/TD] [TD]38.9g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]42.6g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]MX80 friend3 [/TD] [TD]90.0g [/TD] [TD]40.1g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]43.8g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]BS12 [/TD] [TD]86.7g [/TD] [TD]37.8g [/TD] [TD]96.5g [/TD] [TD]41.2g [/TD] [TD]286mm [/TD] [TD]288mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]SW30 [/TD] [TD]85.1g [/TD] [TD]37.4g [/TD] [TD]94.8g [/TD] [TD]41.1g [/TD] [TD]292mm [/TD] [TD]293mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]VT80 [/TD] [TD]82.8g [/TD] [TD]38.7g [/TD] [TD]92.5g [/TD] [TD]42.4g [/TD] [TD]305mm [/TD] [TD]309mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]VTZF [/TD] [TD]82.1g [/TD] [TD]38.6g [/TD] [TD]91.8g [/TD] [TD]42.3g [/TD] [TD]307mm [/TD] [TD]311mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]VTZF friend [/TD] [TD]86.5g [/TD] [TD]40.4g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]44.1g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]PrecisionPro1 [/TD] [TD]86.9g [/TD] [TD]37.4g [/TD] [TD]96.2g [/TD] [TD]41.1g [/TD] [TD]289mm [/TD] [TD]288mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]PrecisionPro2 [/TD] [TD]87.2g [/TD] [TD]38.9g [/TD] [TD]96.5g [/TD] [TD]42.2g [/TD] [TD]294mm [/TD] [TD]295mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]PrecisionPro3 [/TD] [TD]88.0g [/TD] [TD]38.7g [/TD] [TD]97.4g [/TD] [TD]42.0g [/TD] [TD]292mm [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]PrecisionPro4 [/TD] [TD]87.6g [/TD] [TD]38.3g [/TD] [TD]96.9g [/TD] [TD]41.6g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [TD]290mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]Revelation1 [/TD] [TD]86.6g [/TD] [TD]37.1g [/TD] [TD]96.2g [/TD] [TD]40.4g [/TD] [TD]285mm [/TD] [TD]284mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]Revelation2 [/TD] [TD]88.0g [/TD] [TD]38.3g [/TD] [TD]97.3g [/TD] [TD]41.6g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [TD]289mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]Revelation friend [/TD] [TD]87.9g [/TD] [TD]38.9g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]42.6g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]RKEP Pro9000 [/TD] [TD]85.5g [/TD] [TD]37.8g [/TD] [TD]95.2g [/TD] [TD]41.5g [/TD] [TD]292mm [/TD] [TD]294mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]RKEP Pro9000 [/TD] [TD]85.7g [/TD] [TD]37.7g [/TD] [TD]95.4g [/TD] [TD]41.4g [/TD] [TD]291mm [/TD] [TD]293mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]RKEP XP70 [/TD] [TD]84.2g [/TD] [TD]37.7g [/TD] [TD]93.5g [/TD] [TD]41.0g [/TD] [TD]293mm [/TD] [TD]296mm [/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]Arc FB [/TD] [TD]72.8g [/TD] [TD]32.6g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: grid"] [TD]Arc 11 [/TD] [TD]86.5g [/TD] [TD]38.1g [/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] While entering some data for the ArcFB and Arc11 that I measured at the store today, I realized an interesting correlation that I hadn't notice before. In retrospect, it is very obvious and I don't know why I didn't see it before. Specifically, I noticed that the head wt to total wt ratio is directly proportional to the balance point bp. As such: Calculated Bp = (Head wt / Total wt) x (Racket length ie. 675mm) And this works for both bare unstrung ungripped racket and also strung and gripped racket ready to play. Knowing this relationship, then it's possible to derive head wt without actually going thru the trouble of weighing it using my method on the first page, as long as you measure bp and total wt. Hence: Calculated Head wt = (Bp / 675mm) x Total wt The calculated data is off a tad from the measured data somehow. Likely due to slight inaccuracies in my weighing. The two Trinity 2's are off because I had applied athlete's tape on the frame and had measured bp but forgot to update the new weights before selling them. And the Voltrics are way off probably because the frame design places all the weight at the top, thus skewing the calculated bp to the high side. But other than that, most of the other rackets are only off by 1-2mm in bp between measure and calculated, which is pretty darn good! So there you have it! What do you think? Certainly makes you want to buy a digital scale and measure your bp if you seriously want to get a racket with a certain swing/head wt!
[MENTION=57143]visor[/MENTION] This is really interesting. You are a really meticulous person to be able to find that correlation while just updating your data. Well i am actually a little bit intrigued to buy a digital scale since i want to concentrate to use one or two type of rackets only. Thanks for the information, visor.
[MENTION=35343]Licin[/MENTION] Its the best $20 you'll spend on Amazon. [MENTION=1]kwun[/MENTION] [MENTION=60652]vajrasattva[/MENTION] [MENTION=1495]demolidor[/MENTION] [MENTION=64347]cobalt[/MENTION] [MENTION=32159]Fidget[/MENTION] What do you fellas think of the above equations re head wt and bp?
Hey Visor, I had a PPRO and wonder if the Revelation play the same, in stiffness and power. Loved the way PPRO return smash and drive though had trouble getting power from smash (maybe a bit too stiff) I am thinking about the MX-70, MX-60 or the new Revelation. thanks
If you haven't yet, you could try lowering tension 1-2 lbs to mitigate shaft stiffness of the P Pro. Me I'm finding the Rev a tad too flexy for my swing... I'm not yet used to how it bends and unbending with my strokes. Hence I'm preferring the xp70 and P Pro still.
Thanks, so the Rev. is like the MX-70 is term of stiffness? I still use my AT-700 I though it's not the best the XD and MD. I love the BS-12N but need a bit more power and stiffness.
I think that you have a PhD thesis on your hands. Seriously, I bow to your dedication, meticulousness and overall effort.
[MENTION=1]kwun[/MENTION] [MENTION=60652]vajrasattva[/MENTION] [MENTION=1495]demolidor[/MENTION] [MENTION=64347]cobalt[/MENTION] No one is interested? Or is this too complicated or arcane? Or useless? It's not complicated and it's very useful, I think. Just ratios and proportions. Just instinctively assume: (head wt / total wt) = (bp / 675mm) 675mm being racket length. And you can see the relationship between head wt and bp. Hence if you know any two measures, you can calculate the third. Pretty nifty huh? No one interested in this or is this already well known on badminton central?
I won't disagree that you're on to something here Adn whether the engineers at Yonex and Victor have worked this out or not, it doesn't take a jot away from your application and endeavour. I think this can easily become a quick reference for people who are looking for a certain type of weapon. I just keep asking myself if it is complete enough, though. What about this think called "kick point" whcih apparently differs from BP, in that it is also dependant on the flex/stiffness/composition? Will it not experientially affect swing? Does it not also dictate the choice? The statistical data would generally assume straight shafts with no deviation in thickness up or down the length. What about tapering or pinched shafts - does the result get affected in such conditions?
[MENTION=64347]cobalt[/MENTION]: Kick point is something that we usually forget, although some companies are using tapered shafts that are affecting the kick point and the feeling. [MENTION=57143]visor[/MENTION]: quick, you should copyright this!
