Singapore Also Can

Part 4 - Transcript of Mr Lee Kuan Yew's interview with National Geographic

Transcript of Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew's interview with Mark Jacobson from National Geographic on 6 July 2009, for the magazine's Jan 2010 edition

Updated 06:57 PM Dec 31, 2009

Q: "Do you use a personal computer?"

Mr Lee: "Yes, I do."

Q: "And do you are really up on this stuff?"

Mr Lee: "Well otherwise I'm out of the loop. I used to correct my copies and fax it back. Then I find the young ministers are all correcting each other's copies on the net. So I decided I better learn this or I'll be out of it altogether."

Q: "What do you think really the overall effect that the internet is going to be in the general sense and especially in a government like the one that you have here where suddenly like there is this degree of personal freedom as given to people by using the internet and a lot of this stuff on the internet is not stuff you really want your children to see for instance."

Mr Lee: "What can you do?"

Q: "What can you do? Is that the answer?"

Mr Lee: "You have got to decide as the Chinese have decided that they have to take the risk and they try to minimize the risk and censor this and censor that."

Q: "Do you approve that?"

Mr Lee: "No, but we cannot censor it because you just go to some server outside and you have got access, so it's a waste of time."

Q : "And also no matter what you do, you are not going to be able to, these hacker guys, you can't beat them."

Mr Lee: "You have got to leave it to the parents and the schoolteachers and peer groups, to say look don't waste your time doing this."

Q: "One thing that puzzles in Singapore is actually a very interesting place because of different paradoxes I find in this country. What would be, forgive me if this a little bit on the lewd side, why would you ban Playboy for instance and allow prostitution?"

Mr Lee: "We banned Playboy in the 1960s when it was a different world in a different standard. It is still banned, that's all. I mean why do you want buy Playboy now if you can go into the internet? You get more than what you get in Playboy, that's that."

Q: "I'm not going to ask you if you looked at it recently."

Mr Lee: "No, you can't, I mean it's not possible. It's part of the globalized village we live in and we have got to learn to adapt and live a sufficiently wholesome life to succeed. If you become addicted to all this porn and drugs and gambling on the net, then you are finished. I mean in Korea, they have become addicts at this."

Q: "I think that there is a lot of addiction in that, yes, there's no doubt about it. Speaking of that, so what made you decide to have these casinos?"

Mr Lee: "When I was a student in England, the only casino in Europe was in Monaco."

Q: "I remember that."

Mr Lee: "The younger ministers have said look, we must have a casino, otherwise, we are out of the circuit of this fast set that goes around the world, with F1 and so on. And it will increase the tourist trade because the casino will pay for all the shows. Otherwise, the shows are too expensive. So I've been resisting it and I've told the Prime Minister, I said no, no, don't do that, you'll bring mafias here and money laundering and all kinds of crime."

Q: "I think it is a definite risk."

Mr Lee: "Then I see the British having casinos and Switzerland having casinos. I said God, the world has changed. If I don't change, we'll be out of business. So alright, we'll put up two casinos, so obviously they are not going to target Singaporeans because there are not enough numbers for two casinos. So they got to bring them in from China, India and elsewhere and we have passed legislation to say that any family can ask for a ban on …"

Q: "A person from that family."

Mr Lee: "And the Singaporeans when they go in, they have got to pay $100."

Q: "That doesn't sound quite fair."

Mr Lee: "No, they are going, driving up to a place called Genting, Star Cruises come in and they go outside the territorial limit and they gamble. So I said you do that because I do not want to be blamed and the Prime Minister doesn't want, and his Cabinet doesn't want to be blamed for those who get addicted. And there will be those who will get addicted."

Q: "How do you, are you still morally opposed to them or does pragmatism always take precedence in your thinking?"

Mr Lee: "Well, it is useless to resist when it is everywhere."

Q: "Well, the fact that it's everywhere, maybe it is the reason to resist."

Mr Lee: "No, you cannot stop it. You want to cut off the internet? You want to cut off your cellphones? You want to cut off satellite TV? Then you will become like Myanmar. It's not possible."

Q: "No, thank you. That's interesting. I hate to be jumping around but I don't want to take so much of your time. What do you do about this kind of thing? I would assume in a government, it is easier to legislate people having less children than it is to legislate having them more children."

Mr Lee: "No, we can't legislate. We don't legislate, we just encourage and we say if you have the third child, you will get these benefits."

Q: "Well, legislate is the wrong word but …"

Mr Lee: "We encourage them with incentives. Yeah, we pay for full pay leave, we don't burden the employer because the employer will then say look I'm not going to employ these women. So the government pays for them, the employer is entitled to two-three months, three months?"

YY: "Four months now."

Mr Lee: "No, no. Employer two months, we pay two months and it will become six months and so on."

Q: "During the 1960s and the 1970s, you ran a programme 'Two is Enough'. Did the government succeed too well?"

Mr Lee: "No, it has happened all over Asia. It has happened in Hong Kong, it has happened in Korea, they never had this Stop at Two, it has happened in Japan, it is the education that the women and equal job opportunities. Once the women are educated, they have equal job opportunities, some of them earning as much if not more than men, there is a certain independence of choice. I mean they say what's the hurry? Singlehood is no burden, my daughter is 55, unmarried, mother has been nagging her when she was in her 30s, she's quite happy."

Q: "Do you feel an urge to have more grandchildren or is it."

Mr Lee: "I've got two boys who have got grandchildren but I feel sad for her. Because when my wife is gone and I'm gone, this hotel which keeps her going. She will have to manage it."

Q: "I mean the thing is like, occasionally, it seems like the Singapore Government succeeds as I was talking to a gentleman today, he said in India, they propose a lot of things, and fairly high percentage are never going to get done right but in Singapore, things are proposed and you do it. And you finish it. Therefore, if it is a mistake, then you have to redo it."

Mr Lee: "No, what is the mistake? We can't undo women's education, equal job opportunities. But the whole problem springs as I was talking to this physiotherapist, I said suppose you were not educated to a point where you are independent, your mother and father would have got you matched off."

Q: "Matched off, what does that mean?"

Mr Lee: "Father and mother will look for another father and mother with an appropriate background, no inherited diseases and similar social affluence and then they marry them off, they get them together and meet and no objections and then you are married. Then you love the man, or you love the woman you marry. But she's educated and she's thinking of a degree in physiotherapy and upgrading herself and so…"

Q: "There is this feeling that you want to keep the society going."

Mr Lee: "Well, fortunately for us."

Q: "And reproduction is an important part of that, right?"

Mr Lee: "I've been urging them. The only developed societies that have succeeded are Sweden and France and that's not that they have succeeded, they have just about reached replacement rate. And we've studied their incentives and they are enormous. Crèches, full pay leave for husband and wife, nine months and you can extend it and so on and free nurseries, factories and offices have nurseries and feeding rooms for the mothers. We will get to that stage eventually but meanwhile, it takes a long time to change mindsets."

Q: "That's true."

Mr Lee: "Since we are small population and we can top up, we are topping up. The trouble is the moment they come here, they also have one or two children because they begin to think like Singaporeans. Why? I will lose my chance of promotion. So I'm out of business for six months, nine months, I come back, the others have overtaken me."

Q: "Well, I think that's what I've heard. A lot of people say like well, foreign workers have come here and they've just come to work. That's what they do, they are here to work, so it's hard to compete with people who are just don't have any other distractions. I mean I've heard this several times."

Mr Lee: "Without them, what will happen to us? We will shrink and eventually, one- and-a-half workers will have to support two parents and is that sustainable?"

Q: "I don't know, probably not."

Mr Lee: "Therefore, the one worker will move out rather than pay the heavy taxes. And move out and give remittances to his parents wherever he is."

Q: "So, well, this is a question that came up several times when I have been driving around in the taxicab, all I have to do is say "how's business?" and then you don't have to say another word. The Singapore people, they just start talking."

Mr Lee: "The tourists have gone down."

Q: "And they have all these life stories."

Mr Lee: "Swine fever and so on."

Q: "Then I would say I'm going to see the MM, what would you ask him? And he goes…and one thing did come up which is not, I don't mean to…one of the things he said well, he's the father but he should let us go. Then with words like as a patriarch of the country, is there a point in which you should step away because the perception is I guess that I know what you really do, but the perception is that you are still the face of the country."

Mr Lee: "Well, no, that's a public perception which is not held by those in the know. I mean all the top executives know that they are dealing with the ministers and the decisions are made by the ministers. My job is really as a long-range radar to look out for opportunities and for threats. So I can sit down and talk to you because I have got nothing urgent in my tray."

Q: "I'm glad to hear that."

Mr Lee: "I cannot work at that old pace. I can work with subjects that require contemplation, time, which really is backed up by my experience and my feel of how things will develop."

Q: "Well, nobody knows Singapore better than you."

Mr Lee: "I mean, I guess, supposing I had not intervened in the casino debate, the religious groups would fought tooth and nail to stop it and the Prime Minister and his Cabinet were in a lot of trouble, so I stood up and said look, I understand the views, I was of the same view but I'll tell you the reason why I have changed my mind and that had a calming effect because if you don't do this, you are not going to be part of the modern world. Either you accept that this is part of today's globalized world and you have F1 and all this glitzy events, closed roads, light up the city and so on, or you are out of business. And in Singapore, if you are out of business, you are out of food."

 

Part 5 - Transcript of Mr Lee Kuan Yew's interview with National Geographic

Transcript of Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew's interview with Mark Jacobson from National Geographic on 6 July 2009, for the magazine's Jan 2010 edition

06:50 PM Dec 31, 2009

Q: "Singapore is always been about business. They say in America, business of America's business, I think it's true here too, right?"

Mr Lee: "It has to be. Otherwise, we won't survive."

Q: "When you look out the window, and you see all these big buildings, is this what you envision? Is this the world that you hoped to be?"

Mr Lee: "After we were booted out from Malaysia, before Malaysia or during Malaysia, we thought we'll grow together as a commercial centre of the federation, the capital being Kuala Lumpur, like Washington, we'll be a kind of New York. But once we were out on our own, I studied what happened to Malta, Gibraltar, all the island colonies and Hongkong and I thought we were in a similar position to Hongkong, so I knew that high-rises will be inevitable. And Hongkong is all economy, they have packed all of them together in a little piece of flat land across the Bay, across the harbour, and very few houses up on the hills, on the peak, because that's where the British overlords used to stay and moreover it's costly because they have got to have retaining walls otherwise, you have landslides and so on. So we decided we'll have to spread out over the whole island and have high density living but with lots of green spaces and room for recreation and breathing space. The school I was at was the best school in Singapore, Raffles Institution, now we have Raffles City, four big high rises designed by I M Paye. But what's the choice? It's a prime site, so the school has now got spanking new buildings, where is it now? Bishan which is near Bishan Park but it has lost, but that old school we thought, I thought about it hard and it was made of bricks and mortar and boards, so they keep it going in a tropical climate, prone to white ants, will be a very expensive business. So I said let's give up."

Q: "I mean one of the things, what is the value of past place like Singapore? Several people actually use the same metaphor, it's interesting, I have two movies in my head, I have the movie of the world that I grew up in, and I have the movie of the way things are now. One in my head is getting very frayed of the past and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about."

Mr Lee: "I used to cycle to school. Empty roads, when it rains, I have got to have a raincoat. Now it's just not done, with all these huge buses and cars, so my grandchildren are advised not to travel by bicycles. London has lost a lot of its ancient buildings but it's got enough solid buildings of stone like St Paul's Cathedral or Westminster Abbey or the Houses of Parliament which are very costly to maintain and they keep that as icons. Well, also the Oxbridge Colleges, they are very uncomfortable to live in, I mean you want a brand name, you try and get there but choose a nice new building annex that they have built, if you are put into one of the old rooms, then you are cold and it's several centuries old."

Q: "I mean they didn't have central heating then."

Mr Lee: "Now, they have put in some central heating, I mean they are piped."

Q: "Never so cold as I was in London."

Mr Lee: "But that's a trade off. So we keep a few along the riverside and amongst the better buildings which are worth preserving because it's not so expensive and they are also architecturally interesting. So there are few landmarks. In my own constituency, I've got two streets which have been kept up and the rest have just gone high rise but they have been kept up and used for other purposes, no longer domestic but boutique restaurants, studios and so on. Otherwise, you can't justify the economic costs of maintaining them."

Q: "As you get older, do you get more sentimental?"

Mr Lee: "Sorry."

Q: "As you get older, do you feel more sentimental and nostalgic or do you manage to avoid that? I mean I know you are a pragmatist."

Mr Lee: "No, it was a nice leisurely place, large spaces, I would travel along what is called now Mountbatten Road, used to be called Grove Road and there was a swamp on one side and now we have all built up areas, it was an airport, now the airport is gone, the British flying boats used to land on the river which I remember. I mean look, do you want to, if we were the size of let's say the US, lots of empty spaces, then you might be able to keep more of it. But I see New York hasn't kept much of it either."

Q: "Well, it's a mix. In Manhattan, it's true."

Mr Lee: "You have kept the churches because they are made of stone."

Q: "The Empire State Building is still there."

Mr Lee: "But the Empire State Building now looks tacky compared to the others..."

Q: "It looks great!"

Mr Lee: "It looks old fashioned."

Q: "Well, the view, I mean the Chrysler Building is a work of art. Most of the buildings they've built since then are not works of art."

Mr Lee: "That's what you think but the architects. Their grandchildren would say what a wonderful architect that was. I mean aesthetic taste varies with each generation."

Q: "I don't know. I think there's a kind of, did you see that building, a picture from China and the building just fell over. I know you don't have that kind of construction processes here."

Mr Lee: "You see the Chinese are nouveou riche and the contractors want to be part of the nouveou riche, so they …"

Q: "I mean how does it feel if you were living in a building next door, I feel I have got to move."

Mr Lee: "They are in a very fast transition and they see their neighbours getting very wealthy and they say I must get wealthy too because my children, the money that I have got a house, got a car and so on. So they take these shortcuts at the expense of public safety. Bridges have fallen down, when they built this enormous barrage up the Yangtze River and the Three Gorges, Jiu Rongji had a very hard time knocking heads together. It's the process of getting rich in transition and watching your neighbours get rich and you say I must get there too quick or I lose my opportunities. That's that."

Q: "I don't want to take more of your time. Let me just ask you a couple more things. How would you like to be remembered?"

Mr Lee: "I don't think I can decide that. I live my life in accordance to what I think is worth doing. I never wanted to be in politics. I wanted to be a lawyer and make a good living, to be a good advocate but I was thrown into it as a result of all these political earthquakes that took place. So I was saddled with the responsibility and I just have to be responsible to get the place going. That's all and I mean we've got here and I can't decide what posterity is going to do. I studied law and in the law, the British said you can will yourself, you can will your property, the longest you can do it is life and lives in being and 21 years thereafter. After that, you can't control your trust. So in my case, I can't go that long. All I can do is to make sure that when I leave, the institutions are good, sound, clean, efficient and there's a government in place which knows what it has got to do and is looking for a successive government of quality. That's all I can do."

Q: "If you were to leave the stage in the larger sense, and say in ten years, I think you are seen as a cult figure as you have just said about the casino thing, I mean does it have to be somebody like you to keep the place going or …"

Mr Lee: "No, I mean look America got going long after Jefferson, George Washington and all that."

Q: "But I think …(indistinct)… who did big things."

Mr Lee: "Nobody, Charles de Gaulle says nobody, I am not indestructible. When I read his biography, I read in English, and he said that, I said that is a wise man. So I remembered that and I know that come a certain time, and I didn't expect to live so long either, it's just good medicine and good surgery that has kept me here."

Q: "We used to have a joke, if I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself."

Mr Lee: "Well, it so happened and I just do what I think I can contribute to make the place, to consolidate what has been gained and it can still go to waste. It can still spiral down."

Q: "Through no fault of anybody's?"

Mr Lee: "Look, I once had to make an impromptu speech in Sydney, I've just come from New Zealand. So in the end they said no speech, no speeches and the Premier of the state made a very well-prepared speech so I had to respond. So what do I say off the cuff? I said I've just come from New Zealand and I'll tell you what my thoughts were. In 100 years from now, I go back to New Zealand and there will be the grass, the sheep, the cows, the tornados or hurricanes at Wellington, and there will always be this green pleasant place and not industrially developed because it's the last stop in the bus line and in 100 years from today, I'm not sure that there'll be a Singapore. It depends on what my successors do. I mean that's the cards we were handed. So it's not up to me. What is up to me is make sure the place is ticking, make sure the institutions are there, the systems are in place, make sure there is a government that is fit for the job and then it is up to them to ensure continuity. That's that."

Q: "Do you feel satisfied that that's moving along quite well? Or do you worry?"

Mr Lee: "I think for the next ten years, with this team in charge, it is going to be fine. Whether they will do well for the next 10-15 years depends on whether they get a younger team in place, well imbibed into the methods of the government, integrity, ability, and making decisions for the public good, and not for your personal benefit. That's all. It is difficult because it means sacrificing privacy and sacrificing pay. Now we solved the pay problem or semi-solved it by giving them 80 per cent of the average of six major salary earners."

Q: "Is that how you arrived at it?"

Mr Lee: "Yeah, but we are always lagging behind because whenever there's a downturn, we don't give the rise. Whenever there's an upturn, the private sectors goes up, shoots up suddenly and we can't keep pace because the public says no, this is too much."

Q: "Well, when people are getting US$16 billion bonuses for bringing the country into the ground, it is hard to keep up."

Mr Lee: "I was once asked about the enormous, the best paid ministers in the world. I said you should look at the wives. The lowest-paid ministers have wives who are glittering with jewels and with big mansions."

Q: "So that means they are corrupt."

Mr Lee: "No, I didn't say that."

Q: "That was pretty way to be said."

Mr Lee: "But it's true. So Singaporeans have to decide. Do you want to underpay a minister and you have the kind of shenanigans as you have in the British Parliament? You know they repair their homes in the country and in London and charge it to their account. Or you pay them a proper wage and said after that, look after everything. Nobody gets any special perks. That's your salary, you buy your car, you do what everything is yours. Official entertainment, you have got an expense account. Your secretary monitors it and audits channel clears it. So everything is above board and the public knows that. So whatever they grumble, they know that they are not being shortchanged."

Q: "There are grumbles but there are always grumbles."

Mr Lee: "There must be. Singaporeans are champion grumblers."

Q: "Thank you so much."

 

Slew of events to keep Singapore busy in 2010

Channel NewsAsia
01 January 2010 1816 hrs

By Asha Popatlal,

SINGAPORE: From the opening of the two integrated resorts to a new report due on the Singapore economy, 2010 looks set to be a busy year.

The economy dominated headlines in 2009 and will continue to do so in the new year. The Economic Strategies Committee Report on how best to take the country forward is expected by end-January.

The Jobs Credit scheme, which helped saved jobs during the recession, will wind down by mid-year. But the opening of the Marina Bay Sands integrated resort and Resorts World at Sentosa within the first quarter should boost economic numbers.

Another highly-anticipated event will be the world's first inaugural Youth Olympic Games (YOG). This kicks off in Singapore this August and should add more buzz to the city.

On transport, Singaporeans can zip around a lot easier by mid-year when 11 new MRT stations for the Circle Line open. You might also see more red-plate cars on the road as changes making off-peak cars more attractive kicked in from 1 January.

The residential property market saw some heated activity in 2009. The market should cool with the resumption of the Confirmed List under the Government Land Sales programme in the first half of the year. Confirmed sites are put up for tender regardless of a developer's prior expression of interest.

Real estate agents will also come under regulation.

On education, details on the review of schools teaching English and Chinese languages are expected, possibly by Budget time.

Health-wise, there will be more focus on measures that emphasise community care.

Politically, changes such as the revision of GRC sizes and more single wards will be tabled in Parliament.


Construction workers walk under the incomplete tracks of a duelling roller coaster ride at the Resorts World at Sentosa construction site.

 

Singaporeans celebrate the New Year in parties islandwide

Channel NewsAsia
01 January 2010 1856 hrs

By Cheryl Lim,

SINGAPORE: Thousands of Singaporeans gathered to celebrate and ring in the New Year in style.

At the Pinnacle@Duxton, it was a New Year in a new home. The skybridge was packed with new residents eager to take in the view from above. And they were rewarded for their patience, with unparalleled view guaranteed to start 2010 with a bang.

Crowds in Sembawang too had their fill of fireworks, but not before a medley of performances by dance groups and regional acts, with a touch of magic sprinkled in.

Things heated up at the Marina Barrage as well. Revellers danced the night away in a massive 12-hour party, where fiery beats helped chase away the troubles of 2009.

Sentosa was also packed with partygoers. 20,000 people gathered on Siloso Beach at five different parties, with plenty of foam to help them slide smoothly into the New Year and fireworks lighting up the shoreline at the stroke of midnight.

And it was a song-and-dance-extravaganza at Marina Bay. Singapore Idol finalists performed to a packed crowd at the floating platform, while fringe events at the Esplanade helped set the tone for a brand new year and decade.

Fireworks light up the night sky at the Marina Bay in Singapore to usher in the New Year.

 

25 elderly couples renew marriage vows

Channel NewsAsia
01 January 2010 2128 hrs

By Evelyn Choo,

SINGAPORE: Twenty-five elderly couples spent their New Year's Day by renewing their marriage vows.

Some have tied the knot for more than 30 golden years, and age is certainly not stopping them from showing their love for each other.

The event was organised by the South West District to celebrate the role of grandparents in families.

Joseph Lum and Emmeline Tsai said: "Marriage is a long-term commitment. For the younger generation, when they embark on it, it is a new phase in their life.

"To stay committed, to stay loving for each other, whether during bad times or good times, this is what we call true love."

 

Speak for yourself. Don't try to bring in neighbours ... to try to paint a bad picture of our MM with your unsubstantiated remarks.

 

Some BCers here would vote for Pemuda as PM if he has political ambitions.
If that is the case the water problem can be solved between kawan2 lah.