Players with WEAK smashes!

Discussion in 'Professional Players' started by *___*, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. *___*

    *___* Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    www.badmintonbetting.blogspot.co.uk
    Good points.

    Has anyone ever seen speeds for LYD's smash?

    By no means weak, below average? Perhaps.

    Shame we wont get to see it again for a while :/
     
  2. M3Series

    M3Series Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    KL, Malaysia
    KKK smash is pretty weak too i guess
     
  3. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Germany
    Pretty strong - when he smashes hard, he easily gets over 250 in a decent hall. 2011 WChamps had a couple speed measurements, I think one of those was around 275km/h...sadly, it seems to have gone out of use, I'd rather like having more speed info! Similar to Tennis, where every serve is tracked, commentators don't have to mention every single one then, only if it's exceptional in some regard (i.e. very hard, looked harder than it was, "My mum smashes harder than that!",......)
     
  4. *___*

    *___* Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    www.badmintonbetting.blogspot.co.uk
    WOOOOSH! Didn't know LYD had that in him, in recent times they've tried to set him up with bigger smashers, Ko/ YYS.

    ---

    Yeah, would be good if they showed smash speeds from the rear tramlines and from there only. Then over time we'd be able to build a good record of players and smashes, true average speed etc.
     
  5. volcom

    volcom Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    4,421
    Likes Received:
    281
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    hence LYD is banned :)
     
  6. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    414
    Occupation:
    Chartered Civil Engineer
    Location:
    London, UK
    Well the subject is relative, and in my opinion Setiawan's smash relative to the current top MD players is weak. Ahsan's smash is actually not bad, certainly more powerful than Setiawan's - not necessarily more effective, but on the subject of power, Ahsan's smash is not bad.

    Setiawan's smash is not weak as such, not weaker than you or I, but just weak amongst the current best in the world.

    I always take the speed gun's measurements with a pinch of salt. They seem consistent at each tournament, but I don't think you can compare the speed in one tournament with another as there are so many factors involved.
     
  7. Giga01

    Giga01 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    47
    Location:
    Sweden
    I think Chong Wei Feng has quite weak smashes...Could've just been the stuff I've seen though. Shon Wan Ho USED TO have a weak smash, look at the AE 2010 match with LCW. I'm sure there are some WS that are better of not smashing at all as well...
     
  8. *___*

    *___* Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    www.badmintonbetting.blogspot.co.uk
    That's true. Although there is the shuttlecock speed test, certain halls are definitely faster than others.

    I think it's pointless when they show the speed of a smash from midcourt. In tennis the service speed is measured over the net, so I assume it's the same for badminton, but am not sure. That's why they should only display (or record) smash speeds from the rear tramline as then we'd have a guide to go from.
     
  9. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Germany
    They track the shuttle with radar guns, which display the fastest moving object they detected, which is the shuttle on the first meter or so after it leaves the racket.

    Also one of the reasons they dont have it at every tournament as you need both the equipment and someone who tracks the shuttle all the time^^
     
  10. volcom

    volcom Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    4,421
    Likes Received:
    281
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Surprised no one has mentioned Zhang Nan who probably has the worst ever power smash in professional badminton.... it's all placement.
     
  11. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Germany
    I agree he doesn't have the best but saying he has the worst is bordering on the delusional - he hits WAY harder than a lot of players.
    Adcock, Ellis, Koo, Hoon TH, Ahmad, Prapakamol ALL have slower smashes. ZN rarely DOES smash with full power, he has a weird technique and takes kinda long to setup, so I can agree fully he isn't a particularly good smasher, but his smash in and of itself is not that bad. If he had truly one of the worst smashes he wouldn't be WR1 and Ol. champion, while you can enjoy some success in XD without a really good smash, you won't win the big ones.
    Adcock would probably be more successful if he didn't think his smash was greater than it is, as he sometimes goes for all-out power smashes, hoping to end the rally and ending up WAY out of position, and it f***ed when his opponents return it (I guess if you train with Xu Chen on a daily basis it's really rather cute than dangerous :D).
     
  12. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Smashikon, Driveland
    Seriously guys, anyone calling Nan Zhangs or Setiawans smashes weak, must be blind.
    Maybe they don't produce the highest speed, but I would def rate their smashes amongst the BEST, because they are so hard to read, are so precise and so deadly.

    I prefer playing against a consistent hard hitter I can read to playing against someone who mixes it up, has good placement and smashes clever.
     
  13. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    414
    Occupation:
    Chartered Civil Engineer
    Location:
    London, UK
    The subject of this thread is about power. Not accuracy, consistency, difficulty in reading or how good the smash is etc. With that in mind, Setiawan’s smash is one of the weakest I have seen in top MDs. How effective his smash is, is a different topic of discussion – which as I’ve said before, is quite effective.
     
  14. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Germany
    Who said this was about speed? The thread title says WEAK, and a weak smash can't be one that's scoring a lot of points....it has to be both slow and kind of predictable, and Setiawan still produces good speed when he really puts his all into it...if it were really slow, his cross smashes would get countered as are those of weaker smashers, yet he almost always scores a direct point with them.
     
  15. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Smashikon, Driveland
    The topic is weak smash vs. killer smash.
    Setiawan without any doubt belongs to the latter category...
     
  16. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    414
    Occupation:
    Chartered Civil Engineer
    Location:
    London, UK
    Well you can read it differently. But the way I read the intention of the thread (OP’s original post) is one that implies speed/power. And I believe many others who had replied to this thread, including yourself have focused on the subject of “power/speed”.

    Weak or Powerful is relative. The keyword here is “RELATIVE”. So let me put it into perspective. I have a 2 year old son, if you compare Setiawan’s smash with my son’s smash then yes he is very powerful but is that meaningful? If you compare Setiawan’s smash with the likes of the top MDs players, then he is (at least in my view) one of the weakest. I’m not saying he has the weakest smash in the world of professional badminton or has a weak smash compared to you or I, but one of the weakest in top MD. I reiterate, “in top MD”.

    Now, I disagree with the point you made about a weak smash can’t be one that is scoring a lot of points. Firstly, a smash is generally not usually expected to be a winner (unless your name is FHF) but a tool to force an error or a weak return that you or your partner can capitalize on. So even if he had a weak smash, it does not mean is isn’t effective at building up an advantage as he can do it by other means – which he clearly does this through extraordinary placement and accuracy. Secondly, whilst fast smashes are generally more difficult to return, sometimes slower smashes can upset your rhythm, perhaps due to a slight change of pace, or being unprepared for a slower shot. This happens a lot in XD, although we would usually expect the ladies smash to be easily returned, it does from time to time cause a problem.
     
  17. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Germany
    Well, Setiawan has a slower smash, but still, I wouldn't call it weak. The thing is that he can get it decently fast, and forces players back in their defense with that. He has by no means one of the fastest smashes around, but we're not looking for players with not-outstanding smashes, but weak ones (by elite international standard of course, if you compare Adcock with me his smash is gonna look pretty damn lethal!).
    And I really don't see Setiawan's as outstandingly weak. I'm not quite certain what his top speeds are since he formed the current partnership, but I'm pretty certain I've seen 240s and 250s from him, which is not mind-blowing but fast enough by current standards (I can't remember a tournament with anything over 280 since the 2012 AE, tbh). Even Fu doesn't get to the magical 300 anymore these days, no idea if its due to slower shuttles, bigger halls or higher tensions...or old age :D Although if it were only age others would still get near, I think.
     
  18. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    414
    Occupation:
    Chartered Civil Engineer
    Location:
    London, UK
    As I mentioned above, I read the intention of the thread differently, given that he started off by saying "big smashes" - which implies power/speed.

    "Weak" to me would intuitively mean lacking in power/strength, i.e. slow.

    Now you may choose to suggest that "weak" implies a whole host of other characteristics but, this was not how I perceived the meaning.

    And how would you define a killer smash? This is such a colloquial term... but does it matter?

    Finally, no one has doubted that Setiawan has a good smash. I for one had always regarded it as an effective smash. But powerful? Not compared to the rest of his peer group of elite players.
     
  19. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    414
    Occupation:
    Chartered Civil Engineer
    Location:
    London, UK
    Ok, we're slowly edging towards agreement here. ;)

    I wouldn't call Setiawan's smash weak either, but amongst ONLY the top players, it will be near the bottom end - imo of course! :)

    If we turn it around and ask the question, how many of the top MD players are there that have a more power smash than Setiawan compared to how many have a weaker smash than Setiawan... I would suspect that we may find that there are more in the "more powerful" category. Probably not by much, but if we had to rank it...

    Although, as I have said, it is difficult to gauge this in reality as I don't really believe the numbers from the speed guns can be compared between tournaments.
     
  20. *___*

    *___* Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    www.badmintonbetting.blogspot.co.uk
    When i started the thread it was focused on power and speed although in hindsight 'players with ineffective smashes' perhaps would have been more appropriate.

    Either way it's good to see discussion on the topic.
     

Share This Page