ok. so i have undeleted but locked the thread. it will be viewable but no more replies will be possible.
Our Melbourne and Victorian Graded tournaments are now located at tournamentsoftware . BTW, our Melbourne and Victorian Graded tournaments are now located at tournamentsoftware; and this is what they look like; http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/tournament.aspx?id=33B42D83-836E-41C6-9061-F64187D98119 .
Have undeleted but locked the thread . Thanks for doing that kwun. American BCers can now read some of the solutions suggested/offered there; http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...-Central-Open-and-Graded-Competiton-21-22-May .
Give to each of our winners a certificate . I read again the whole thread. Luckily that kwun locked that thread because some posters were trolls there; generating ill debate and ill feeling amongst our BCers. I removed myself from that thread after Post #107 (after I have said enough). Reading back all the posts in that thread makes me want to laugh. Anyway, this is one of the suggestions that I think is the 'perfect' solution (Post #82); Maybe the BV ranking system for graded tournaments will work along the same lines as the Open grading --- certain tournaments have a set number of points allocated from winner down....the harder the tournament the higher the points ..... and graded tourney organisers should also be asked to look at the Open rankings..... we would then need a state number for every player with the only players permitted in the lowest grade being those with no state number......or ranking points below a certain figure..... and what about the few people who "trophy hunt" interstate where they think are not known You could have a ranking for each of the grades....and once again pick a cut off point for the rankings in each grade......The BV tournament co-ordinator (for want of a better term) could set the time frame for the rankings and each tournament would be forced to strictly abide by the rankings for grading of players...no discretion without approval..... maybe this is the way to go..... it's very much the way the OPEN goes. However, with this ranking points system, it takes a lot of effort to do (the same way at Open tournaments are organised the BWF). A simpler way (with less effort required) is to give to each of our winners this certificate; Congratulations. You have won this event. !!! You are now promoted to the next higher grade for this event in your next tournament. .
It happens all over the world..... As a tournament organiser (director) you place a huge amount of trust in the information that people put on their entry forms......you can only check up on so many entries and against the results of the more well known tournaments..... but what do you do if you get an entry naming a partner but you don't get an entry from the partner...... The forum thread that chis-ccc is pointing you at was started by a person I let in as a partner of an entry received on the last day of the tournament -- the entry did not state any playing standard so an entry into C and D mixed was permitted (different partners) -- one of the partners was this Maklike Tier........ guy who did not bother to send in his own entry. Turns out the lady played A-res in a weekly competition (probably B tournament) and the guy played B in weekly competition (borderline B/C tournament) so they were sandbagging and got sand-bagged -- JUSTICE really. The state body here is about to trial a grading/ranking system -- probably only add an extra level of checking to that already done -- but at least the tournament director will not be the one coping all the flack if people are moved up a level or if yet another SAND-BUGGER slips through.
This is another 'Fun' tournament system: Age Groups . IMHO, the 'Graded' tournaments system is a Western system of 'Fun' tournaments organised to bring in players of the same level/skill to come together to participate. This is another tournament system; It is used in some Eastern countries. It's the 'Age Groups' tournaments. Some Eastern countries believe that gathering players of the same age groups could be just as 'Fun' for them to participate in. The Age Groups could be; * Under 18 * 18-25 * 26-35 * Over 35 In this system, an ID (Passport, Driver's license, or other ID's) is all that is needed for entry. My experience in these tournaments makes me feel the 'Fun' atmosphere when playing in them too. Perhaps most people of the same age groups can get together friendlier. .
I don't think this really is a big issue. If a player traveled far to play in a tournament, he typically would be the more ambitious type. I doubt he would sandbag his way just to win. Anyhow, he might still play two flights, as he's not sure exact level(s) of the local players. Back to here in the Bay Area, a D-level tournament is usually quite crowded, consisting of easily 5 rounds (or some 32 people). If the OP gets to the 3rd round and runs into a sandbagger, it'd be 1 in 4 chances (as there'd be 4 matches in the 3rd round), assuming there's one sandbagger in that level at that tournament. And if he runs into the sandbagger in the 2nd round, it'd be 1 in 8. That's why I say, just keep playing tournament, and you can also work out the issue statistically. After all, you can also look at the whole thing this way. If you already know he's sandbagging, you can find out how you're doing by comparing scores you can get from him, and how other competitors fare against him. You may not ultimately get the D-level trophy, but you can kinda get a sense of where you stand, I think. Wouldn't that be enough?
The problem lies with the sand bagger entering the flight in the first place. Not the statistical chance I will run into them. Your statistics are incomplete. By your logic there is a 1/8 chance then 1/4 then 1/2 and then 1/1 chance. So in the end there is a 100% chance you will get beaten.
There's actually another format, though not sure if it's better. Use the 1st round (and maybe the second round also) to decide people's levels. A drops B, C drops D. And you could put previous winners at a certain level as seeded players to play/calibrate the unseeded ones. This should eliminate a lot of cases that players themselves are not sure of their levels, and join more than 1 levels. Anyone has any experience with this format?
True, it's incomplete, though I also pointed out you can use relative comparison in scoring to figure out what level you're at, relative to all other competitors, esp. if you already figure out he doesn't belong to this level. Unless, of course, winning the trophy is important to you.
I have seen this and i can honestly say, if the field is big enough, it takes too long. I believe the reason there are grades is so there is no need for this preliminary ranking, and the matches can flow faster. With a First round that big, it would take a few hours.
Not sure why this is so, as you can have single knock-out immediately after the 1st round. This would be very similar to the main draw dropping to consolation round. In other words, in both formats, a player is guaranteed 2 matches.
I am more sorry for the victims, than angry against the sandbaggers . Actually, I am more sorry for the victims, than angry against the sandbaggers. I am experienced enough to grade a player by just having a few strokes with him/her, or by just watching his/her play. I have been in Badminton for decades, although I took 5 years off to play competition Table Tennis. Now, I am a Badminton coach. And I have always encouraged my trainees to participate in our 'Graded' tournaments (in Melbourne, they are our 'Fun' tournaments). Winning or losing should be of lesser importance than to enjoy their experience. But, many times trainees returned to say that there wasn't any enjoyment that they have experienced. They get a bitter experience/taste of seeing how sandbaggers operate. Let me quote what one first-timer (a D-Grader) has said; I could see that there were several players in D grade also played in C grade in the same event, which is fine. The issue is, how come those players were more competitive in C grade as supposed to D grade? and i don't mean it in a positive way, these players lost in their D grade event significantly, yet the were able to win a few games in C grade. Why??? because people lowered themselves to D grade and skipped the other grades alltogether. D grade became tougher than C grade. this is outrageous.... And some players even overheard some sandbaggers boasting that they have won so many lower grades tournaments trophies, year after year. Some even take photos of their trophies to show others. I just could not understand how they could be proud of themselves if they decide to be stuck at lower levels/grades over the years. Anyway, as I have mentioned; our 'Graded' tournaments results are now posted at tournamentsoftware.com; so participants can get to see how sandbaggers operate and wishing to spoil the enjoyment of our 'Fun' tournaments for others. .
I feel like the following rules should be mandatory for badminton tournaments (I've never entered a tournament, so I don't know if these rules are in place or not): 1. If players are going to enter the same event (singles, doubles, mixed) but in different skill levels (A/Open, B, C, and D), then that player is NOT allowed to skip levels (i.e., that player cannot enter B singles and D singles, because he/she would be skipping C). The player can, however, skip levels of different events (i.e., a player entering B singles can enter D doubles or mixed. Skipping C is allowed because it is not in the same event). 2. A player cannot enter the same event (singles, doubles, mixed) in more than two levels (A/Open, B, C, and D). This means if a person chooses to enter two levels, they must choose between A/B, B/C, or C/D. 3. Given that you cannot skip levels, if a player who has entered in two levels of the same event (for example, has entered B and C for singles) and has reached QUARTERFINALS of the higher bracket (in this case, the B level), then that player is immediately disqualified from the lower level (in this case, the C level) bracket regardless of their current position in that bracket. This rule should serve as a deterrent for those naughty sandbaggers/trophy hunters to think twice before entering. Alternatively, I would also like to see more tournaments with a combination of both round-robin play and a double-elimination bracket. For example, once the tournament organizers have confirmed their final list of entries, the players are then seeded (to the best of the organizer’s knowledge/ability) and placed into pools of 5 (can be more or less, depending on the total amount of entries) and start out in a round-robin format. The top two players in each pool then advance into the main double-elimintation bracket where tournament play would continue as we normally understand it. At least this way, the least-skilled players in the tournament are guaranteed a decent amount of matches and have the chance to play a larger variety of opponents. Some people enter tournaments to gain experience, and a guaranteed good number of matches is worth their money. Any thoughts?
Over here in Aussie there are some tournaments that start with combines A&B and C&D grades ..... They put contestants in pools of 3 and the winner of the pool plays the top grade, second in the pool plays the lower grade and the loser's tournament is over -- Players are then put into new pools of 3 and the winners of those pools play a knock-out format to find the winner. The tournament I am director of uses the 4 grades - we set a maximum of 24 entrants per grade meaning 8 pools of 3 -- winners of the pools advance to quarter finals then semis then a final so the winner has to win 5 matches.
A general rule in Victoria Australia is that players entering more than 1 level -(grade) can only enter adjacent grades......we also attempt to stop any-one with any ranking points (only obtained in OPEN events) entering below B grade. Most of the larger tournaments are run on 2 days and usually run say A & C on one day and B & D on another -- and I usually warn players in the tournaments I run that if they make the final in the higher grade the day before the lower grade is played they will be removed from the lower grade.....It's happened once but the higher grade was played the day after the lower grade so the same pair won both grades -- needless to say they were promoted the next year. By the way do any of you guys use the tournamentsoftware.com site and its software to help run your tournaments -- I find it a great help in draws in that I can usually avoid two players from the same club meeting in the first round and/or pool.
Oh we thought you complained to the administrator and had it deleted? Vien got banned from BC, so guessing others complained.
The worst trophy hunter must be this guy, who recently said: The title favourite however must be Lin Dan, currentWorld n° 3, who’s already looking forward to the Singapore Open. “It’s for sure a tournament I want to win and add to mycollection of trophies. Singapore is also somewhere I’d like to visit, the foodis good, people are friendly and the place is very clean,” Lin explained on thetournament’s website.
Please notify the administrator . Oh no... Did another moderator delete this thread again? http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...-Central-Open-and-Graded-Competiton-21-22-May Now it says again "Invalid Forum specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator" ??? .
This could be an interesting idea, though this still won't stop someone from sandbagging to lower level in order to guarantee a win. I got a feeling that round robin is a format that takes too long, though it can help promote fairness in determining the real ranking.
