Men's Double Tactics

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by M3Series, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. M3Series

    M3Series Regular Member

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    Me and my partner having a hard time against 2 tall players. What would you suggest we do to get the attacking position? ( kill the shuttle ).

    1. Flat game
    2. Deep and high clear ( eventually kills the shuttle when we had a chance )
    3. Keep smashing ( we are up against a decent pair, just smashing won't kill the shuttle sometimes )

    P/S : don't answer by saying 'it depends'. What I'm looking for is pros and cons of what I suggest and what you may suggest. The choices is mine but still, you guys have the experience more than I do. Thanks in advance :)
     
  2. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

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    Presuming that they are high and deep enough, lifting and/or clearing is a safe option. It's difficult (though not impossible) to smash from the very back of the court. Against weak opposition, you may get a half-court clear in response, handing you a premium attacking opportunity. However, you are handing all initiative to the opposition. Especially if you are playing good opposition, you may not get another chance that rally. Once you reach an intermediate standard, you only lift and/or clear when there aren't any viable alternatives or to (sparingly) add a bit of variation. Once you reach an advanced standard, you only lift and/or clear when there aren't any viable alternatives.

    If the shuttle is about tape-height, drives are a good way to keep some pressure on the opposition. Best formation when you drive is similar to a defensive formation, though (hopefully) both of you are slightly closer to the net. Getting on top of a 'drive-rally' will force your opposition to either lift or to attempt a risky (i.e. net-kill-able) drop. If you're under pressure, then choosing to drive risks being net-killed. Therefore, drive if you can, lift if you can't, drop if your opposition is inept.

    In general, blocks and net shots are only viable if your opposition has left sufficient space in their fore-court. A well executed net/block gets you into an attacking position. A poor net/block risk a net kill or a drive.

    If the shuttle is significantly above net height, you already have an attacking platform. You need to balance retaining the attack with pressuring for an error. A good smash (i.e. fast AND steep) combined with good positioning by the smasher's partner will achieve both. Fast but high smashes risk being counter-driven, putting you in trouble and forcing a lift. Slow smashes risk being net-killed. If your opposition are decent, don't be surprised if it takes multiple smashes to put the point away. The downside to repeatedly smashing is that it is more tiring for you than your opposition. If they're positioned well, then they don't have to move much. Putting some variation in will make your smashes more effective. If your smashes are good enough to keep your opposition sufficiently away from the net, drop shots are the best variation. If not, then the occasional clear is necessary to force your opposition to move and hopefully force an error.

    Given that your opposition are tall and decent, I would:
    1) Lift/clear only when there isn't a viable alternative
    2) Drive when you can, recognise when you can't
    3) Smash when you can, with the occasional variation (drop if you can/clear if you can't)
    4) Look out for opportunities to net or block, but don't expect them to come up too often against decent opposition
     
    #22 Line & Length, Dec 19, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  3. M3Series

    M3Series Regular Member

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    As much as I'm grateful of your suggestions, none of it is what I'm looking for. At my current level, all the points that you just mentioned is already on my head and I'm doing it pretty well on-court.

    While thinking what should I do, maybe I will try to play more flat game and try to aim on their shoulder. Most of the points we get was triggered by attacking their shoulder and they return it weak, and we smash to kill the bird.

    So I'm thinking maybe any of you out there may have some suggestions on what else did you do when you are up against a tall and decent double players.

    When I say tall, I meant 6 feet or 190+cm :D
     
  4. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

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    Sorry that you didn't find my previous post helpful. It's difficult for advice to be specific without video etc.

    Taller players have further to stoop to low shots, so try the occasional net or drop as variation. They may also tend to lean over for shots rather than move properly, so the occasional cross-court drive may catch them out. However, both tactics are risky and should be used sparingly.

    As they are of a decent standard, they will limit the options that you and your partner have. You will have to play consistently well and be patient to get a well-deserved result off them.
     
  5. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    Very tall players tend generally to be less agile and their speed of movement around the court is generally slower. However they can compensate with better reach and larger steps so it would make the difference less noticeable in doubles.

    The tactics that are often used against taller players are centred around their reduced ability to shift their body into position rapidly. For example, by turning them. This is particularly effective playing tall players in singles but it will still help in doubles. Try hitting the shuttle so that they are forced to turn their body a lot, alternating left and right. But beware if you’re playing against a left and right handed pairing, you could be unknowingly hitting it to their forehands all the time!

    Another good shot is the disguised sliced dropshot. Tall players don’t like to couch down low whilst lunging for a shot and tend to prefer using their reach rather than scrambling to get to a shot. So whilst the slice slows down the shot, giving them a little more time to react, it creates a tighter drop and so is great against those that don’t move very fast around the court.

    When smashing, try mixing up your usual smashes with a few near/at the body, more specifically, ones around the racquet arm areas which requires them to shift their body slightly out of the way to play a forehand.

    When defending against tall players, you don’t want to stand too far back, unless they are really strong. I often find that the smashes from tall players aren’t exceptionally powerful but are obviously very steep (in contrast, playing against short players, their smashes tend to be very high and long of the baseline). This sounds obvious, but in my experience, it is the tall player at the net that you need to beware of as they do more of the damage than the tall player at the back.

    In terms of serving, there isn’t a great deal you can do other than making sure you don’t make it too easy for them. Because of their reach, low serves will be easy for them as are flicks. Some people have said that aiming for the racquet shoulder is a good tactic, but I don’t think this is specific to tall players.

    So in essence, try combining a few shots to turning them with some tight lunging shots at the net and hopefully you will force an error from them.

    Hope this helps and good luck! :)
     
    #25 R20190, Dec 20, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  6. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    at a certain level, general advice is not possible! it really depends on the strengths/weaknesses of that particular opponent. there are tall people that are good at attacks, others in defense, others at drive play, others at netplay. it really depends!

    so if you say you're at an advanced level, general advice is just randomly generating some blind guesses, some will be correct, others less so. and you won't learn anything...
    a video might help.
     
  7. M3Series

    M3Series Regular Member

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    This. I've also found that they aren't that mobile so my partner told me to make sure we 'move' them all the time. It was brilliant game! :D. We've lost it but still, we able to make them wanting to play with us again in few more games.

    Also on serving, me and my partner already had a strong understanding on how to deal with such good receiver. So it doesn't give us much problem.

    There's another problem comes out when the tall partners start playing a counter-attacking game. They feed us and we smash in but it cost us a lot. By 10 points, we are tired enough to play full-offensive game. Eventhough they had a 8 points deficit, it does not occur to them a sweat to catching us up.

    Thanks for the advices and I kinda amused by your suggestion on shifting their body rapidly. I think maybe we did not overlooked in it. Will try it out next week.

    By the way, aiming their shoulder really gives us so much opening. Until they start to realized that :p
     
  8. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Interesting discussion. Thought I would add some comments.

    Firstly, and I know its obvious as others have mentioned sliced drops, but a good old deceptive stop drop (ala Jung Jae Sung) is VERY effective against tall players, especially if you have been hitting them with some good body smashes (racket hip, racket shoulder etc as discussed by those above). The reason for this is that taller players are often a little more lazy with their footwork. The tend to "set themselves" more in defence, knowing that they can reach everything. Players that set themselves in defence are much much slower to set off for a drop shot that lands before the service line - hence the stop drop :D Of course, this tactic works against anyone who sets themselves in defence, but I find taller players are more prone to it. It can be very funny. After the stop drop, aim the next smash at their chest/face: lets see what they do with that. Careful not to hit out!

    Secondly, when serving to them, do not overlook the flick serve to their forehand - it doesn't even need to be low. For most players, the movement to the deep forehand corner is very difficult, especially when the shuttle goes past you - most players fail to turn their hips sufficiently to move effectively in that direction and stay much too "square" which would work fine round the head. The movement to the forehand rear corner is especially difficult if you have a big frame to move around.

    Good luck with your coming games!
     
  9. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    Don't forget the first 3 shots in double usually determine the outcome of the point. You can be an average player, but well trained/coached on the first 3 shots, you can win double against much better players who are not trained on the serves and serves returns.
     
  10. Jun Wei

    Jun Wei Regular Member

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    How about a partner that is basically non - existent at the net? There are some players after years of playing is basically non-existent at the net. He can hit the shuttle into the net for a easy kill. And every time he is at the net, the shuttle will NEVER get lifted. it is either tapped or put away. Can be quite frustrating at times.
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Best example is Boe/Mo... it is amazing watching their first 3 shots when they play set patterns that maximizes their left/right combination .
     
  12. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Yes, and this also points out to the importance of controlling the net, whether in doubles or singles.
     
  13. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    some of my danish friends told me, that the danish badminton junior players exercise these first 3 shots all the time! they do this stuff over and over again, until they automatically play the right shots.
    this is what makes these guys hard to play, they're so good at these first shots and are therefore always in a nicely setup situation...

    and yes: controlling the net is crucial! you can't win (mens) doubles without controlling the net.
     
  14. NeverWalkAlone

    NeverWalkAlone Regular Member

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    This is quite an interesting post. i agree with the first point. Tall players do tend be slower when shifting the weights and turning. However, i don't agree that their smashes are less powerful. i have encountered a tall player who has a powerful smash and good reach as you have said. he's a tough opponent to play with. the only weakness i found is that he tends to be slow when turning to take shuttles. also, with tall players, since the smashes are steep, it's important to improve on smash returns. Weak and slightly low smash returns give them opportunity to downright kill the shuttle.
     
  15. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    dont take such a game seriously.
     
  16. danilo5753

    danilo5753 Regular Member

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    Guys, any tips on how to give signal to your double partner when doing cross-court smash or drop so that they can cover you?
     
  17. i800Yoty

    i800Yoty Regular Member

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    There's not so much a signal to give to your partner, except just knowing when to. After playing with a regular partner you can start to read and predict their shots without even seeing them (ie they're behind you). It really just comes down to the non verbal communication that you either have naturally with your partner or gain from playing together. But there is one thing that you can tell your partner, and that is: to stand slightly further away from you then normal, ie you're not standing directly behind one another but diagonally. Hm this is harder to explain than I thought; but tell them to not stand in an all out, one in front of another but skewed diagonally so they can easily rotate out. Hope that helps!
     
  18. M3Series

    M3Series Regular Member

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    There's a situation that beg me to differ on how effective a shot can be.

    I serve, opponent drive it ( slightly upward ) toward my partner's backhand, and he backhand smash it.

    Most of the time, opponents could put it away on the other side which empty since I'm still at the front. We've discussed about this but my partner still doing it and I have to be ready for worst-case scenario ( miss-hit, half-court, BAM! My face swell...:crying: ).

    Any suggestion?
     
  19. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ If he's truly backhand smashing it, there's no way your opponent would be able to put it away. ;)
     
  20. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

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    Firstly, are you serving to the 't' or out wide? If it's out wide, then the opposition can drive down-the line and put you & your partner (y&yp) on the defensive. Unless your partner has one hell of a backhand drive, then he may have to lift.

    If you're serving to the 't', then any pushes and/or drives to y&yp's rear corners should be intercepted mid-court by your partner and driven down-the-line. Similarly, this should put your opponents on the defensive.

    Secondly, if the shuttle is going to be hit by your (rear-court) partner, you need to take a couple of steps back from the service line. This is precisely so that you can intercept driven responses. If your partner does a drop, you have time to go back in again.

    Finally, your opposition should never be able to hit y&yp's smashes downwards. If your partner is struggling with angle, he should try hitting with 90% power and concentrate on getting a tighter angle to the tape.
     

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