Video ref trial at Superseries Finals

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Loh, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    If you see the way BWF have worded it in post #2, it says 2 per pair for doubles.
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Ya I was just being facetious. :)
     
  3. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    I see the winking-grin, however, let me bite at this.

    As a player, I would like to find out how good this system is, also, to find out which line has a weaker judge. Then I will adapt my tactic (change strategy) to unsettle, the opponent and/or the line judge, or even block that camera.

    Another possible scenario is after the umpire has over-ruled the line judge call and then a player/pair challenges. Now that will most certainly will add to the drama and excitement of the Superseries Finals – both for players and fans per BWF's Lund - http://bit.ly/1bjGlgo.

    Be that as it may, many players already know that the last third section of the sideline on the service judge side is where most challenges will take place. A lot of fine tuning will be required to find the least possible dead-ball time, meaning how instant is the instant review, or instance review. No matter, both, players and court officials will adapt, just like they have always done, be it rule change, format, whatever. To me, the main reason why there is an umpire is to have fair play, and that players, coaches, spectators have confidence in, and trust, them to make the right and correct call.
     
    #43 2wheels04, Dec 5, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    maybe i am a purist, but it will be a sad day when players starts using the challenges as a tactical tool. not unlike fouls being used as tactical tools in basketball and american football.

    has there been similar precedence in tennis where they have a similar system? where players uses the challenge as a way to delay the game or unsettle the judges?
     
  5. yuki onitsura

    yuki onitsura Regular Member

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    I think when they first trialled hawkeye with tennis, they had no limit on the number of challenges you could make and some players were abusing it to challenge anything that was even remotely close just to stall for time to catch their breath. Less of an issue after the two incorrect challenge rule was introduced shortly after. I have noticed that umpires are now much less inclined to overrule on line judge calls but if asked by players can advise them if they thought it was close or not.
     
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    in badminton, i have seen more and more umpire making totally strange overrule that makes no sense. after tv replay some are so bad it makes you wonder if they are deliberated biased. thankfully the new video system will cull out those as well.
     
  7. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Be prepared for your sad day very soon.

    In fact can we have a poll - From which country will players start abusing this rule first:D(I.e calling a challenge when it is 6 inches in for a breather).

    To be honest I don't think it's that big a deal. Players will try to use the rule to their advantage, but imo the advantage they could possibly gain (by any way they try to with challenges), will be pretty minimal. Unless opposing player/s has an extremely weak mentality.
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Why all the worry about this being abused as a tactical tool to take a breather? There are only 2 whole incorrect line challenges in the whole match.

    And currently any player can lunge and fall onto the mat either with their sweaty hands or bodies, any time they want to take a rest while the mat is being mopped up. ;)
     
  9. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    By the way it happens in tennis a lot, a player uses up his challenges if he needs an extra breath and feels he doesn't need all his remaining challenges(tiebreaks etc). Commentary, fans and both players(especially opposing player) usually has a bit of a chuckle, it's taken in good spirit.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8yfHuYm_kM<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8yfHuYm_kM">[video=youtube;T8yfHuYm_kM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8yfHuYm_kM[/video]
     
    #49 craigandy, Dec 5, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  10. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    What the instant review will do is to put the onus on the player/team for the stoppage. This is where most tactics are employed after all. Consider all the current continuity restarts - change of shuttle, court-mop, injury, suspension, etc. How many are initiated by the player? How about the fixed restarts - start of game, start and end of the intervals within game and between games. The player does not control this, and any deviation here and the player/team pays a price [generally], penalised instantly with a stern warning, if not, either a yellow or red card.

    The present philosophy is continuity of play from "First Game, Love-all, Play" to "Game. Match won by ..." and the umpire will only impose when this philosophy is not followed.

    This review-stop will be another phase of the match and will be part of match. And a brand new one. As a player and coach, I would like to know if the system which was already trialled twice, is actually correct, and timely, in match situations. There are at least two people involved on court - the umpire who will signal to the referee, and the referee. Off court, there will be the desk-johnnies mucking about with review buttons and slo-mo, back and forth, back and forth. And not to mention all the communication between these parties and equipment. Lots of variables, right?

    And not to deviate too much from the cat-mouse routine that you see at the highest level of competitions, here is my understanding of tactics that are, and have always been, used. Players need most of all to know what to expect from the umpires. As a player, these are the main things:

    1. to weigh up the opponent(s),
    2. decide what to do about them (and how), and
    3. test out the umpire

    Just like many other things in life, we must first find out the person or establishment we do business with is creditable, a good player will test out the umpire from the get go, and if the umpire is not imposing his/her authority, does not demonstrate we-know-what-we-are-doing team-work, then s/he will be taken for the ride.

    And here are the main themes of communication by umpire to player/team:
    • develop empathy/rapport with players/teams
    • demonstrate control
    • maintain authority
    • prevent infringements of playing philosophy existing at the time
    • explain actions and decisions

    Now at a higher level, the instant review is a communication for the purpose of mediating conflict - s/he says it is out, i say it is not, or vice versa. While this review is taking place, could I take a drink, towel off, tie shoe-laces, what? This is not clarified in the Player's Guide. How about the review taking place, and the player decides to towel off, drink, etc etc without permission from umpire. Now, the review result is in. What, what did you say, was it in or out, I did not see the screen? Then I ask for mop, why? While everyone was busy looking at the screen, I put some sweat drips. Okay, mop done. Can we now have a shuttle change? And so shall the cat-mouse routine begin anew, and continue!
     
  11. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    1488180_604010419646149_1483025718_n.jpg

    ............
     
  12. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    So looks like they'll be covering all 4 courts.
     
  13. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    It looks like there is no picture for the service line at the front court, wonder if that is on another computer not in view or if they are deciding to not include, which would be very strange.
     
  14. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Probably with service lines, the umpire is close enough to call it more decisively and authoritatively, hopefully without error.
     
  15. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Hopefully, always looks like one of the hardest to call, due to it being seen from an angle and usually the player is over the top of it under his legs trying to leave it.
     
  16. Heong

    Heong Regular Member

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    Has it actually been used yet at the SS Finals?
     
  17. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    read this BWF-news: http://bit.ly/1bjGlgo
     
  18. felipemagaldi

    felipemagaldi New Member

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    LCW used ir 1st.

    LCW was the first player to use the review system and he won the point back.
    http://bwfbadminton.org/news_item.aspx?id=79572

    I'd like to watch that.. any links to videos of the match?
    thanks
     
  19. Heong

    Heong Regular Member

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    I want to watch how it happened to.

    Was it against Wang Zhengming? I saw the video on YT but I couldn't find the rally that he challenged for...
     
  20. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Here, at 21:28

    It was so obviously in, I don't know what the linesman was looking at...

    [video=youtube;4jG1Ss35opM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jG1Ss35opM#t=1288[/video]
     
    #60 visor, Dec 11, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013

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