How much do you hate plastic?

Discussion in 'Shuttlecock' started by wedgewenis, May 12, 2007.

  1. bdbc74

    bdbc74 Regular Member

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    I think you are a very little biased against plastics:D
    Maybe this is simply so because you dont have seen yet good players playing with plastics.

    People that play regularly with plastics can produce very fine shots, that you cant play with feather: very tight drops and good tumbling shots!!! Because they play most of the time with plastics they are used to this! Its quite normal.

    Why must plastics foster wrong technic??? Its the player like chickenpoodle already sayed, if he have the skills or know how to play he dont have to use more arm, instead he have to get faster in the ready position.

    Some people that are quite good can produce very bad sliced clears with this crapy platics that are more dangerous than with feather. This sliced clears fall on the end of the curve like a stone:eek:

    Generally you can do more slicing with plastics, but you have to get used to it:D:D:D

    Maybe you have to try more first:p
     
  2. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Of course you se few "good" players playing with plastics, as they know better :) .. I've played plastic with some of the national top-level players here..and of course a classy player is a good player even with bad conditions and equipment!!
    But really good players here NEVER use plastic for training, games (even for fun games).. good players here usually also gets shuttles for free, so why on earth would they use plastic??

    Only lower-level players and recreational players use plastics here.. in torunaments, leagues etc its all feathers.. So generlly if someone comes up tells me he only plays plastic, it's a good give-away he is not a competetetive level player!

    Nothing strange with that.. I can play good shots with plastics as well.. (I can also play good shots with a squash racket as well, but I don't propose to use a steel racket with fish-nets strings, just beacuse its "playable", and less expensive :) ). I am just saying its differnet and differnt in this case being worse...and not even close to the "real thing"...

    If you already have the skill techique, you are of course using it regardles of shuttle. But I found out people who use plastic and are not complete newbies, tend to use slower shuttles to offset their greater smashing speed, to make it at least possible to get some smashes back. This usually makes it hard to use wristy/forearm shots, and players tend to use more body and arm in the shots..so their technique doesnt improve and they usually rely only on a smash, not much on deception..Why bother if you just can win with a flat non-angled smash, thats insanely hard..

    Apart from, that I don't think its really true as the Plastic has a much flatter trajecotory (on slices as well), dropping like a stone is hardly what I consider a good shuttle :)

    Actually I played for a few years only exclusively with plastics, because i didn't belong to a club way back then, and all my friends played in plastic-league matches..

    I don't have any trouble to play well with mavis, performance wise.. But it destroys all fun in the game!!..

    Just smash at everything (even out of position, of balance etc).. any mediocre smash has a good chance to win the point, due to the folding mavis effect.. and if the shuttle is much too slow, then it just becomes a who has the strength to do most deep clears, in a row...

    /Twobeer

    P.S. Are you saying top player in the Bonn area regularly plays plastics??? D.S
     
    #102 twobeer, Oct 7, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2007
  3. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    I get to admit. The exchange is getting more interesting.
     
  4. david07

    david07 New Member

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    ha, I feel the same way Pete:D
     
  5. bdbc74

    bdbc74 Regular Member

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    #105 bdbc74, Oct 7, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2007
  6. chickenpoodle

    chickenpoodle Regular Member

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    its pretty tough to tip the feathers to adjust to a broken shuttle when we have to tip on average, every four in order to get our shuttles down to playing speed. i'm not sure how much it needs to be done in other provinces, but in alberta, thats what we have to do.

    i wouldn't say it fosters wrong technique.
    you probably only say it fosters wrong technique because of the following:
    greater number of poor technique plastic users than poor technique feather users IN YOUR AREA.
    if you went to china, you'd see a ton of players with poor technique using feathers... would you get to say that feathers foster poor technique?

    okay, sure, so he's recreational, but does that mean he's not competitive?
    jody patrick, an ex member of the national canadian squad is a recreational player now. why? cuz she's not a national player anymore! but would anyone say she's not competitive level?
    and i've seen her play with plastics (mavis 300) on numerous occasions, when she dropped by the university of alberta to play (few years back) with a few of her colleages. its just as good as when she was playing with as50s and other top grade feather shuttles when playing national level tournaments!

    about the speed of the shuttle again, who cares if the shuttle can possibly fly super fast?
    is it not possible that the smash wasn't that fast, but it felt fast because you were just THAT out of position when you received that smash?
    maybe it just means that you have to be just THAT much faster?

    you say that good players can play well with plastics, correct? thats my interpretation of what you said.
    but then you go and say that they lack deception and small strokes?
    i thought small strokes and movements lead to deception, and deception is part of the complete arsenal for a good player.
    i've seen plenty of deception when it comes to plastic.

    blame the player... why blame the equipment?
    i thought that applies to a ton of stuff in badminton, so why not include this case as well?

    and finally, we have no technique, flat smashes, and insanely fast shuttles?
    well, who cares? you dont' HAVE to retrieve that.
    why hit it? its going to be out...
    and if its always out, then how can they rely on winning games with that?
    oh wait, you're right. it IS insanely hard to win with that. not only is it insanely hard, but its impossible!

    i see lots of contradictions in your argument that needs resolution.
     
    #106 chickenpoodle, Oct 7, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2007
  7. chickenpoodle

    chickenpoodle Regular Member

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    baaahaha, this is awesome. we think alike.
     
  8. bdbc74

    bdbc74 Regular Member

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    We know this from bitter experience:D
     
  9. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    And one of the 3 speeds of a mavis 300 is perfect speed each time out of the tube in Alberta???

    If you went to ANY country where plastics are not common, there's a greater chance you will se LOTS of much better players and technique than you see in Alberta!!! Especially in China!

    Well, then why don't you ask her to share her views in this Forum, and tell me I am wrong, that she feels playing with plastics is just as good/fun as playing with AS-50's :).. I have yet to meet a good player saying they like to train, play with Mavis shuttle (given a choice to use feathers). Did you really ask her, how she felt about plastic vs. feathers, and if she felt that Mavis is a s good enough to replace an AS-50??

    I am frankly much more interrested in her assesment of the difference of the shuttles,than your assesment of the fact that you saw her use plastic shuttles on a non-training, non competetive situation? :)

    Btw, I think she lost in the round of 32 in the 2004 olympics against Johanna and Fredrik of Sweden :p

    If you don't care about speed, and trajectory then obviously plastic shuttles are just fine.. (and rubber balls as well, or ninja stars :) )

    I was refferring to my own smash, when I am in a bad position or late, I can hit a smash with plastic that has a great chance of winning the point, but with feather, hitting the smash in bad positions would be suicidal, against a good player..


    yepp. I don't confuse player skill with equipment.. A good player is a good player, a bad shuttle is a bad shuttle.. very easy to separate the two :)
    A good player however is more likely to appreciate good shuttles :)

    If you can win points to easilly without being deceptive, why use deception? Why slice, and flick if I can hit it 400km/h high on the opponents body??

    Nowere have I said a good player is not ABLE to make deceptive shots with plastic.. But the speed and trajectory dosn't encourage this type of play.

    So if two equally good players meet, using plastics the one just hitting hard and going for one-shot kills and don't rely on deceptive shots will most likely win..

    It just a matter of a few degrees of angle if the flat smash goes out or hits the base line.. So of course all flat smashes are not going to go out even if the shuttle is insanly fast...

    It will just be 300 km/h plus when hitting the baseline :(

    Hope you find some resolution...

    /Twobeer
     
  10. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Are you using plastic below the first to divisions in germany?? Do you have have any divisions innational leauges using plastic???? How about U13,U15,U17 tournaments? plastic or feathers??

    Don't think you can make that generalization between different countries.. and 20% of what.. 20% of players who regurlarly compete, or 20% of anyone who ever plays badminton, or 20% of anyone who playes weekly???

    aah, sorry, this answered my first question.. And it makes sense.. So many players use feathers in Bonn :D

    Yes, even if it's a hobby, it makes perfect sense use proper shuttles when competing!!

    true.. I was exagerating abit with "non-angle", I should refrase it flat with very-slight angle, it will be insanely hard and drop close to the baseline...

    I don't think I fully get what you say here, but I think I agree sort of with it :D

    Heck, I have no argument with that..Even if speedminton, tennis or playing with ninja-starts or whatever is your thing, Who am I to say you are wrong!

    The most important thing is to have fun.. and If you feel playing with plastics is just as fun (or more fun) than using feathers, then it's all good, right..

    I am just wenting my personal opinion that

    a) I personally think it's a lot less fun using plastic
    b) they are very different from feather
    c) even broken feather shuttles fly more "feather like" than new plastics
    d) most good players prefer to use the slightly more expensive goose feather shuttles, because of their "superior" flight properties.

    /Twobeer
     
  11. t3tsubo

    t3tsubo Regular Member

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    ppl, keep fanning the fires.
    this thread is more interesting with each passing post
     
  12. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    :D:D:D

    /Twobeer
     
  13. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    TB,

    Please keep us entertained since cooldoob is no longer around :D.
     
  14. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    There is fanning the flame and there are total BS. TB is great at first and speaking the truth. While CD6 is total BS...

    Keep up the good work twobeer. I will drink one for that.
     
    Pete LSD likes this.
  15. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    excellent point (i mean good discussion versus total BS).:)
     
    #115 cooler, Oct 8, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
  16. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    I second Master SH! Let's have FourBeer :p:D.

     
  17. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    hahaha, too many masters in bf:D we should hold a BC master tournament:)
     
  18. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Somehow I feel that remark is deeply insulting...;)

    /T
     
  19. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    My apology as I was sparse with words :eek:.

     
  20. trickflick

    trickflick Regular Member

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    i say if you're just playing for recreation and you're never going to join any competitions, nylon birdies are the way to go

    the way i see it there's two types of badminton:
    badminton w/ nylon
    badminton w/ feather

    each with its distinctive techniques and strategies
     

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