It's true that both (or all 4) players using the same shuttle, but the point is not "who takes advantage", but rather than "not as great or as proper game equipment" might reduce the fun of the sport. Put in an extreme case, do you want to use a metal square box as the ball in a soccer game? Do you want to use a piece of rock on the street as the ball for a baseball game? Do you want a needle shaped sticked instead of a puck for hockey??? You can still claim "hey, both sides facing the same advantage / disadvantage due to equipment change", but do you think such "modifications" should be accepted???
1st, respect other ppl's comments, whether you agree or dis-agree. Even if they obviously make a mistake, no need to use "F" or "S" word. Even if I am really an "idiot" as you claimed, there's no need for you to point it out in the public. 2nd, I don't know where your 200km/h number coming from. Myself is never considered as a powerful smasher, but there's more than once (in my earlier yrs), I can deform a plastic shuttle, and make it fly like bullet. After picking up the shuttle, you can see the skirt is folded, which cause the unbelievable speed. We usually re-play the point due to the incident. I agree that happens more often with a well-used plastic shuttle, but it's definitely happening with a noticeable rate. Most the plastics we used before, are Yonex Mavis 300/350, which are much better than a lot of other plastics in the market already. 3rd, it's absolutely impossible to avoid giving up attack. Not in club level, not in regional level, not even in international level. Using plastic shuttles, making is less of a chance to return the smash, which is truely a disadvantage for defensive type of players. 3.1 - Why don't you make the soccer goal to be 5x as wide as it suppose to be? Once the goalie complain about giving up a goal, simply let him curse his teammates "hey, why can't you guys NOT let the other team ever shot on goal???"
"2nd, I don't know where your 200km/h number coming from. Myself is never considered as a powerful smasher, but there's more than once (in my earlier yrs), I can deform a plastic shuttle, and make it fly like bullet. After picking up the shuttle, you can see the skirt is folded, which cause the unbelievable speed. We usually re-play the point due to the incident. I agree that happens more often with a well-used plastic shuttle, but it's definitely happening with a noticeable rate. Most the plastics we used before, are Yonex Mavis 300/350, which are much better than a lot of other plastics in the market already." The speed cant be an argument! Do you have played with the green Mavis 350? They arent fast at all, they are the same speed like yonex as 30 in the speed "3" or a bit slower. And of course you must change even an plastic shuttle after an hour or so, you will change a feather too when is frayed! The biggest problem with plastic is netplay, tumbling is not so good, i think mainly because plastics tumbles longer than feather, the balance point of the plastics is quite different. But i have seen that good players can master this tumbling even with plastics really good, soo in the end is just the skill. And that you have just from 3 speeds to choose.
Beating a dead horse.. (cooler and I and many has been down the path before ).. The flight pattern and feel are just way different.. All shots (lifts, flicks, tumples, drops etc wil get a different trajectory as the balance and air-properties are different even on the best plastic shuttles. If you use a proper speed (using the law 3 of badminton to test shuttle speeds).. The smash using a plastic shuttle will be MUCH harder (as the plastic slows down less, and the air-resistance does fold the shirt, slightly or very much dependent on the speed of the smash. /Twobeer
Yes, the flight-curve is different, but not that much. And yonex as 30 and victor champion are quite different too, yonex has a more flat flight i think. For smashing: it must be very, very hot, maybe more than 28°C before you can smash that hard with the slow green yonex. BUT you have to use new ones, after half an hour of hard hitting they begin to go faster and faster. After an hour or so they are too fast, even when the plastic is not frayed at all. At first i think too, that feather slow down faster, but then why it is harder to clear with plastics then with feather (by similar speed)? I think plastics (with correct speed) stops more uneven and quite sudden (or we are slicing too much), and this is why is more pleasant to play with feather. I like feather more but i find it very annoying that this crispy nice feeling from a new feather will dont last more than 5 minutes per shuttle, even you can play a lot longer with it, the feeling and sound are after that not more so impressive. Most of us cant change the shuttles like Taufik, after every 2-3 rallyes
Well, I understand the skill is the key for any sports, and practice can make anything perfect. However, how much do you want to keep "re-shape" your skill, just to fit in the "not as great" equipment" for the game? If the modification is too much, you've already killed the fun and changed the game in a unnecessary degree. If I practice enough, I might be able to make a ninja star tumbling over the net. However, just because I can master the skill, do you think we should sub. ninja stars for shuttles?
Well I beg to differ. The difference in flight on a Victor Champion and a AS-30 is minimal, and given they are the same speed, its very small differences in timing, characteristics. The difference compared to for example a Mavis 350 is a chasm!!! It's Huge!! Green mavis are not even sold in my country. Even the blue ones are generally to slow.. (it also seems to vary from batch to batch).. When I test the blue ones they usually go one meters short (much slower) than a 78 speed feather shuttle. But when smashing the speed does not seem to decline, so even very poor flat smashes are usually super-effective. SO to sum up its to slow for base-line to baseline clearnce and to fast for "downwards" shots... I belevie the reason for it to be to slow at clearing and to fast at smashing, is explained by the bad trajectory.. as it will be a more constant speed all the way form hitting the racket to hitting the ground... Thus if you make it correct speed for clearing, the smash will not have time to "slow down" and be ridicilously fast when hitting the ground. Yea.. its true.. We all hate having to frequently switch shuttles.. I think buy using good feathers and make sure they are in good condition, a feather should at least be OK for half a set at least (if its not miss-hit directrly on the feathers etc).. At least thats my experience.. 5 minutes seems very short!! And lots of times Taufik and the guys also replace their shuttles for "psycologial or "getting that extra breath" petwwen points '... /Twobeer
I prefer feathers by far but i don't think plastics are that bad. I use them for training due to , cost and durability. I don't find it difficult to switch from plastics to feathers. Mp 88
I would say that a plastic and a ninja star are a little bit different, not so easy to compare But you are right, you have to play regularly with plastics to maintain such a good feeling for it.
I play in a club most of the time with victor champíon 78 and sometimes with as 30 speed "3". Well before a normal game we are testing the shuttles and the yonex ones are flying 30 to 40 centimeters longer than the victor. We have to tip every 2. feather. In germany the blue mavis 350 is most of the time too fast and absolut faster then a 78 feather even for clears. One nice thing about plastics is, that almost everybody can smash a lot and for doubles this can be real fun, you could have a crazy fast game and is a good training for defence-reflexes. The negative site is that most of the people that play just with plastics cant play so good with feather, the timing is too different, i think its much easier to switch from feather to plastics than the other way.
I agree. This further prove my point of using shuttle give defense style player a default dis-advantage to begin with. This could be even more significant for fast paced MD games.
Yes, I was using an extreme case to show my point. My point is, different players have his/her own standard about "how much change i am willing to accept". Therefore, if someone does not mind to sacrifice the game play, but focus on $$$, it's alright to play with nylon shuttles (for current product standard). However, many others don't mind to pay a bit extra, to use the proper equipment, to enjoy every bit of the sport, then, feather could be a better choice.
Reading this thread, and see the main debate is the durability vs. $$$. However, I did some quick calculation, and find out the difference in $$$ is very much affordable. I am using US market in my comparison, and I understand in different regions, the price can vary, therefore, it might not reflect every single case. 1. Feather: $12-16 per tube (12), for decent club/tournament level of shuttles. If bulk order among friends, even cheaper. 2. Nylon (Yonex Mavis 300/350): $9-10 per 6 shuttles. 3. Standard session duration: 2 hours. 4. Number of players: 4 - say, book a court Here's the shuttle cost per above configuration: 1. Feather: 1.5 shuttles per game, and 2 hrs is about 8-10 games. 12 - 15 shuttles, cost = US$15 - 18, cost per person = $4 2. Nylon: 2 - 3 shuttles for entire session, if you don't want to see the super bullet, better change a shuttle after 3-5 competitive games. cost = US$3 - 5, cost per person = $1 So, if you play such a session, and equally share shuttle cost among friends, you pay US$3 extra per session. Say you play 3 times a week, that's US$9. I am sure we can save $9 per week, which means just go to KFC 1 less time. Or, simply save up 3-4 ice cream in the summer. Or, replace 5-6 bottle of Gatorade with water, or, get a part time job, and work for 1-2 hrs more. By doing so, you can enjoy more in the game itself. I know it's easier for working ppl than the students, but still within the do-able range. Of course, the key is to get everyone within your group understand, to evenly distribute the cost for shuttles. If the cost lay on just 1 or 2 person, that's a totally different story.
Totally agree with LB. It is what you enjoy more and what you are welling to give up. By eating out 2x less a week, you save the money for feather shuttle. Also people has the wrong idea that plastic shuttle do not die (or a lot longer than actual life). Additionally, if Yonex can make plastic shuttle that cost less than feather and play like feather shuttle, don't you think they would have done it already and make a lot more money? It is not we hate plastic shuttle, it's we like it a lot less.
As LB mentioned, the key is to evenly distribute the cost for feather shuttles. In my playing group, we make a collection for shuttles and use the money to buy them in bulk. It ends up costing us around $1.50 per person per 2-hour playing session. That's peanuts considering each person has to pay $5-6 to cover court rental.
Yes. If evenly divide up within the group, the cost compare to court rental / gym access is minimal. Here in NY, we can pay up to US$20+ per session just to enter the gym and play. The extra US$3-5 to upgrade to feather is a no brainer.
