let's together answer : what is the ideal tension?

Discussion in 'Badminton String' started by kwun, Nov 14, 2003.

  1. vajrasattva

    vajrasattva Regular Member

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    stuffs that will increase force? :
    1) high string tension (repel fast, short contact time = large force (F = change in momentum/contact time)
    2) stiff racquet (doesnt flex, so does not generate opposite moment)
    3) solid wrist and fore arm muscles to grip the handle like concrete around a pole for good transfer
    4) fast swing (aerodynamic light head gives you this)
    5) final acceleration of the wrist in a snap action.. (heavy head gives the maximum)


    stuffs that will reduce force? :
    1) racquet flexing resulting in increase in contact time
    2) strings flexing absorbing the shuttle increasing contact time
    3) weak wrist and forearm muscles unable to provide a solid support to racquet resulting in poor force generation
    4) slow swing
    5) lack of wrist snap final acceleration
    6) softening of the shuttlehead and compression leading to increase contact time...


    Force is not everything.. high string tension reduces contact time significantly... even from 0.1 second to 0.05 second.. the force on the shuttle doubles, and the force on your wrist doubles! injuries will result..

    best tension is found through experimentation.. one that allows you to not get injured, able to generate good force every time with no fatique to forearm muscles.. able to absorb the recoil is more important that able to get the shuttle to go harder/faster..

    i went up to 27 before.. and now i'm happy with 24-25.. beyond that performance declines.. if one is competitive, then go as high as you can control (no point missing shots or unable to direct shuttles to where you want with such quick unmanageable contact times).. offense is not the key to enjoying the game nor winning it :(

    sorry for being a nag with this post. :p
     
  2. victorgabriel1

    victorgabriel1 Regular Member

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    stuffs that will increase force? :
    1) high string tension (repel fast, short contact time = large force (F = change in momentum/contact time)-Incorrect
    2) stiff racquet (doesnt flex, so does not generate opposite moment)-Incorrect
    3) solid wrist and fore arm muscles to grip the handle like concrete around a pole for good transfer-More or less incorrect
    4) fast swing (aerodynamic light head gives you this)
    5) final acceleration of the wrist in a snap action.. (heavy head gives the maximum)

    If you don't have the correct technique or power to make a racket bend enough, you won't ever get as much power out of it compared to a more flex racket...Guess why people recommend balanced mid flex rackets for beginners? The stiffer the racket is the harder it is to produce power, not meaning you will get less power, meaning it is harder to do so,Also, raising you tension will shrink the sweet spot, making it harder to hit the shuttle correctly, and making it more likely to get miss-hits and break your strings. Intermediate player? Don't go over 24-25 even for feather, because you're going to break your strings over and over and will get less power out of it.

    Difference between stiffness is that the less stiff racket will produce power by a trampoline effect just like lower tension does. Stiffer rackets don't allow that as much, but it gives you more precision since the shuttle stays shorter on the string. I hope this is clear.
     
  3. vajrasattva

    vajrasattva Regular Member

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    would you mind explaining what's wrong with the physics (its high school stuff probably.. and that was like two decades ago for me) in greater detail than centralize the argument on stiffness which is just one parameter? and this is also to put aside the issue of miss-hits which is easily corrected with some practice, and a non-issue for a proper badminton player

    i refer to the gripping of the handle in the split second upon shuttle contact to be necessarily strong for force transfer.

    even at the string bed point of view, its acting as a "trampoline" already, the stiffness of the racquet being the second "trampoline" where the first trampoline is sitting on. as all these are flexing upon shuttle contact, your wrist has to hold the handle tight and counter the opposite moment, if not it will become a floppy hit.

    the force being proportionate to the rate of change of momentum over contact time is accurate. just like why japanese cars have a good crumple zone, so that the force upon impact is reduced, thus preventing severe knock-ups within the vehicle.
     
    #423 vajrasattva, Dec 1, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  4. victorgabriel1

    victorgabriel1 Regular Member

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    Not that the physic of tighter =more power is wrong the problem is that stating that the way you did implies that tighter=more power which is not true, since it requires a bigger effort to make that string bend as much to create more power. in my mind its clear but im no great teacher...there are alot of forums on the question that explain in a clearer way that ill ever be able to why tighter does not imply more power
     
  5. victorgabriel1

    victorgabriel1 Regular Member

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    Basicly, the reason why professionals use tighter strings is that they go for the precision, the accuracy that comes with tighter strings. Having lower tension and flexier rackets is like a handicap that allows you to create power in an easier way
     
  6. vajrasattva

    vajrasattva Regular Member

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    the bigger your effort to make the string bend, the larger the force on the shuttle!! the string bed does not bend itself.. the user does not bend the strings either.. its the shuttle upon contact..

    a racquet or string bed does not generate any force nor power by itself
     
  7. victorgabriel1

    victorgabriel1 Regular Member

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    Erh well it does produce force by itself since the higher tension the more the string wants to get back to its place...
     
  8. vajrasattva

    vajrasattva Regular Member

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    that wont happen if the racquet is not held by anything! nothing generates force on its own!!

    imagine a super high tension stringed racquet standing on the floor, shuttle comes and hit.. the racquet falls over!

    the hand has to grip it, with the wrist as the pivot. if the hand is soft, without swinging, once the shuttle comes, the racquet will be deflected backwards with the shuttle probably dropping

    if the hand grip is strong, even without swinging, the racquet will be deflected backwards less, and the shuttle can be bounced off forward further.


    it is possible to play badminton with a soft weak gripping and a very fast/large arm swing, it is also possible to play badminton with a strong grip coupled with large swings.

    the tension of the string will determine the contact time of shuttle, and will determine how much force one sees on the handle...
     
    #428 vajrasattva, Dec 1, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  9. victorgabriel1

    victorgabriel1 Regular Member

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    I think you get my point. I won't loose time arguing over useless stuff.
    My point about the wrist is that is your wrist is locked and does not flip you will loose a fair % of your power since the power translates to the racket to the shuttle through the wrist snap.
     
  10. vajrasattva

    vajrasattva Regular Member

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    no i dont quite get your point. its not useless stuff, its just practical understanding of how badminton tension translates to the amount of force one has counter produce for proper shots of which you had said many of the points were incorrect, so i would prefer to know the appropriate rational reasons on why they are incorrect although they make perfect sense in physics.

    the wrist snap is important, like what i have described as the final acceleration via the wrist snap, but upon contact with the shuttle, you still have to tighten your grip on the handle, with your fingers for a split second to be rock solid in order to maximize power transfer onto the shuttle.
     
  11. victorgabriel1

    victorgabriel1 Regular Member

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    If that was true all the players would adopt a ``pan handle`` grip before smash which is not the case.
     
  12. victorgabriel1

    victorgabriel1 Regular Member

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    that wont happen if the racquet is not held by anything! nothing generates force on its own!!

    Seems useless to me to have a debate on whether a racket will play by itself or not. But then again I don't want to start a fight over this. Sorry if my tone was a bit harsh.
     
    #432 victorgabriel1, Dec 2, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  13. flamming

    flamming Regular Member

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    Hi all,

    below is just my humble opinion on show the string tension will affect our plays base on my experience, correct me if i am wrong.

    I have tried out several tension from 20/22lb toward 25/27lbs.

    I felt that higher tension will allow to us to have better control over the shuttle direction, can generate explosive power in shorter time and shorter swing, which might give us a faster game phase and ready for the next shot.

    Lower tension will give you slower game phase as the shuttlecock will leave the string bed in long, which means you can only generate high speed shot with big swing where its affect your game play to be slow because you needs big motion to create fast shot.

    Not every racket can performance with high tension. Most high-end racket from yy or lining or apacs can produce with tension over 24lb but not those low end racket. Even though those low end racket can be strung with high tension as what the manufacture claims, there will no playability as those frame are not solid enough to create solid repulsion.

    In conclusion, high tension required good skill and good racket.

    basic guideline of string tension :
    1. 20-22lb , beginner or sweating purpose (all racket can play with this tension)
    2. 22-23 , intermediate player or high school player ( most racket can be play )
    3. 24 or more , advance player ( Top end racket from yy , lining , victor and apacs , eg arcsaber 10 , lining n series and apacs lethal series )

    Hope it helps...
     
  14. victorgabriel1

    victorgabriel1 Regular Member

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    Hey! I agree with most of the stuff there, would just replace ``shorter swing `` with faster swing but thats just the way i see it. Also most top end rackets from yonex apacs li ning victor babolat etc can take over 27-28, just some companies prefer to play it cheap and only guarantee up to like 25 =P Also 3u 4u 5u will affect how much tension the racket can take. Last point id make is that feather seems to work better with higher tensions (25 pds up to over 40 pounds with the Panda power racket, even if average players stay around 27 28) So yah 18-21 beginner 21 23 average joe playing plastic 22-24 for medium-advanced plastic players. Feather 24-27 for medium advanced players 25-32 for advanced and like 28-40 for pros :p feel free to comment
     
  15. RazerCutter

    RazerCutter Regular Member

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    i used to weld 23-25lbs when i was aged 13-17 competing in the district level in malaysia
    now im on 27lbs with 4 knots
     
  16. FeatherDance

    FeatherDance Regular Member

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    For me, I just want to play and not bother too much about much else, so I let my coaches decide what tension suits me, even where to string my racket (I hand over my racket to them each time it breaks). So far they have always returned it to me at 27lbs and it really does suit me. Comfortable lobbing can be done by just focusing on correct motion with minimal force. Whereas I still remember some months back when I went back to my hometown and used a 18-20lb one (dad's spare racket) and seemed to forget how to smash. If you guys have coaches who have a great history and a ton of experience (assuming those 2 caveats is proof that they know their stuff) then it may fare well for you to do what they recommend, as they know you through and through.
     
  17. Fighter886

    Fighter886 Regular Member

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    27 is the best
     
  18. thunderracket

    thunderracket Regular Member

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    i'll bet on 22-25lbs.
     
  19. Sgt_Strider

    Sgt_Strider Regular Member

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    I'm a newbie here, but can someone here tell me why I would want to string a racquet at a higher tension vs. lower tension? For an intermediate player, what would the difference be for a racquet strung at 25lbs vs 22lbs? Let's say the context here is in terms of smashing the birdie.
     
  20. SuperAustinChu

    SuperAustinChu Regular Member

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    don't be lazy, read previous posts.
     

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