Zulfadli Zulkifli

Discussion in 'Malaysia Professional Players' started by chris-ccc, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Players not funded by tax-payers are independent players

    .
    From Post #481;
    From Post #492;
    Sometimes, some posters here look at the issue from a different concept/perspective.

    To me, people in BAM are civil/public servants. BAM is funded by Malaysian tax-payers. Even ZZ, ZZ's father and KLRC hold a 0.000...001% say on BAM, since 0.000...001% of their taxes paid go to BAM.

    OTOH, KLRC is not funded by Malaysian tax-payers. In this context, KLRC is an independent body.

    People in KLRC are also independent, since they are not funded by tax-payers. Therefore, from this perspective, ZZ is an independent player since he is attached to KLRC.

    Regarding Taufik Hidayat, IMHO, he has formed his own club/school. Have a read of this link, located at:
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...dayat-to-set-up-a-Badminton-school-in-Jakarta

    Similar to KLRC, Taufik and his club/school is also intending to go independent. His club/school is not funded by Indonesian tax-payers.

    What I am saying is - Any players or clubs not funded by tax-payers are independent bodies.

    Soon, I would also expect Taufik's club/school to be sponsoring players. And these players are also independent players, because they are not funded by Indonesia tax-players (although they could be funded by other private sponsors).
    .
     
  2. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Players not funded by tax-payers are independent players

    .
    From Post #481;
    From Post #492;
    Sometimes, some posters here look at the issue from a different concept/perspective.

    To me, people in BAM are civil/public servants. BAM is funded by Malaysian tax-payers. Even ZZ, ZZ's father and KLRC hold a 0.000...001% say on BAM, since 0.000...001% of their taxes paid go to BAM.

    OTOH, KLRC is not funded by Malaysian tax-payers. In this context, KLRC is an independent body.

    People in KLRC are also independent, since they are not funded by tax-payers. Therefore, from this perspective, ZZ is an independent player.

    Regarding Taufik Hidayat, IMHO, he has formed his own club/school. Have a read of this link, located at:
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...dayat-to-set-up-a-Badminton-school-in-Jakarta

    Similar to KLRC, Taufik and his club/school is also intending to go independent body.

    What I am saying is - Any players or clubs not funded by tax-payers are independent bodies.

    Soon, I would also expect Taufik's club/school to be sponsoring players. And these players are also independent players, because they are not funded by Indonesia tax-players (although they could be funded by other private sponsors).
    .
     
  3. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    Since we sorted out the independant player/bodies definition.
    For me a more relevant query should be the following :-
    What is the definition of the best pick for MY?
    What are the procedures/methods/criterias that should be used to ensure the best is picked?
     
  4. badMania

    badMania Regular Member

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    Ranking and form of players should be the first criteria.

    Obviously, Lee Chong Wei and Mohd Hafiz Hashim will top the list due to their current ranking and the fact that there's no other younger MAS players that could even beat Hafiz at the moment.

    Then, for the other players (Daren Liew, Chong Wei Feng, Mohd Arif Latif, Iskandar, etc), I would think that a selection trial should be held to decide the best 2 players to represent MAS for the Thomas Cup Qualifying campaign. That would be the fairest approach.

    Unfortunately, as described by the excellent article in the Star a few days ago (written by R. Manogaran), Zul was not even given the chance for this selection trial. This problem was also seen in MD, where Gan Teik Chai/Tan Bin Shen (also of KLRC) were not selected for the WC 2011, despite their ranking as the 2nd ranked MD in Malaysia then.

    Once again, to quote parts of the article:
    Therein lies the problem. Instead of encouraging and working with clubs, BAM, fearing the erosion of their total domination, have chosen to alienate them.

    They have chosen to ignore the talented Zulfadli simply because he is outside their control, belonging to an outfit they see as being too independent and wilful to their liking.

    Instead of a closed shop and a closed-mind, BAM should collaborate with the clubs and others to produce champions in the mould of Chong Wei.


    I think the author had correctly identified the problem in BAM of not collaborating with the clubs (like Nusa or KLRC) in striving for the best for Malaysia badminton.

    PBSI is guilty of this too, with the exclusion of Vita Marissa/Nadya Melati from the Uber Cup Qualifying campaign, despite their higher ranking (WR11). But at least, I and INA other badminton fans are quietly confident that the talents will keep on coming out from the clubs and as long as there are excellent coaches in clubs (Sigit Budiarto, Antonius, Sigit Pamungkas, Sarwendah). We are have the regular Domestic Circuits and other privately-sponsored tourneys (like Astec and Pertamina Opens) that will ensure these youngsters have been exposed to competitions.

    And don't forget, it's the clubs that supply players to the National Team in INA....without the presence of these clubs, there will be no National Team.
     
  5. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    Agreed. MY sports organisations will never change, it is run by a bunch of idiots who care less about the sports than their own interests.

    BAM got lots of funding so they can send their players for all the competitions and out rank the cash strapped club players who have to be selective in their tournaments. Unless BAM acts in the best interest of the sport, or an unexpected talent like LCW is discovered by the clubs, I dont see how they can survive financially.

    Sometimes I watch the excellent sports talk show in Astro Arena where they bring up issues about Malaysian sports. I recall watching a session about Sepak Takraw and the head of the organisation practically said "He does what he does for the sake of the race, pride and our legacy". No wonder we are no longer a power house in Sepak Takraw, same goes for Hockey. With this type of mentality I see a bleak future for Malaysian sports.
     
  6. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    So that's your narrow definition of "independent" i.e. "not funded by taxpayers".

    But the more authoritative meaning by Oxford Dictionary is as follows:

    1. free from outside control; not subject to another's authority.
    2. not depending on another for livelihood or subsistence.
    3. not connected with another; separate.

    Does ZZ's situation vastly differ from the above. Is he not subjected to KLRC's conditions, or dependent on KLRC for his subsistence? Is he not associated with KLRC?

    What is the great difference between corporate funding and government funding?

    Corporations made their money from tax-payers by charging them (customers) a profit. Government finances its various projects from taxes collected from corporations and the public and in most cases, much more are collected from corporations than from the public (in Singapore's case too).

    So in the end, corporations make their money from tax-payers too. And according to your definition, they should not be considered "independent". :D

    You brought up the case of Taufit Hidayat. I think he is doing things his own independent way without relying on others. He is a good example of an independent player.
     
  7. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    I heard Taufik is very rich and is married to a general's daughter.
    Arguing the fine point of independent is not addressing the issue at hand which is "club players being ignored by national associations in their selection".
     
  8. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    In Msia badminton, Zul is an independent player. He is not a product of BJSS or in BAM. Any player not in the national association, ie BAM, ie no governnent funding/tax payers money, is regarded as independent player. Public sector and private sector is very different - private sector sell product/service, consumer want to buy then only buy. Public sector every tax paying citizen has to pay, whether using the facilities/product,etc or not.

    If want to consider so broad, then all players with private funding also not fully independent as they have racket sponsors. Thailand's Boonsak, Sudket, Saralee, Songphon, Kunchala are regarded as independent players as they are no longer part of Thai BA team

    If I dont use Forza racket or buy gold from Andrew Kam's co or buy stuff from any other of Zul's sponsors, then I dont contribute $$$ to Zul's career.
     
    #508 eaglehelang, Jan 24, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
  9. undeadshot

    undeadshot Regular Member

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    It's not entirely true that Hafiz is unbeaten by other Malaysians. Liew Daren and Arif both have beaten Hafiz over the past year.

    But I doubt Zulfadli can do better than Hafiz, maybe his father wanted him to be given a chance to be a reserve, to soak in the atmosphere.
     
  10. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    I have seen the match Hafiz played against Lin Dan. He was excellent and could have won it. However his yoyo performance is scary. Does everyone remember the previous Thomas Cup where he played like 50% and pissed off the whole country, was it against Japan??? .. cant remember.
     
  11. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    I agree with you. However, one should not be misled by Chris' biased and narrow definition of "independent."

    As regards the selection of MAS TC representatives, it is not entirely wrong to chose from those who have a higher world ranking for a start. As both LCW and HH's standard are considered higher than the present national squad members, the remaining slots should be fought among those then available.

    I suppose the selectors do not consider ZZ's world ranking to be good enough.

    Yes one can say TH is a very lucky man! :D
     
  12. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    BAM's sources of funds should not discriminate it from those of private organisations


    I would have considered ZZ an independent player if he is not part of, and linked to, the KLRC outfit, if he sources independently for his own sponsors for financial and non-financial support e.g. flight tickets, hotel accommodation, badminton equipment, etc, etc. The emphasis here is that ZZ must do all these things by himself if he wants to enjoy that sort of independent image enjoyed by many tennis professionals.

    By being not a product of BJSS or BAM does not automatically give ZZ that "independent" identity as he still has to resort to KLRC for various support and has been associated with the club publicly. And KLRC has proudly acknowledged that ZZ is its prized possession.

    How an organisation earns its revenue to continue its existence should not be the main criterion for distinguishing between "independent" or "non-independent". Both private and public organizations need to generate income to finance their projects and programs. As I've said private corporations make money from their sale of goods or services by adding a profit margin. If you don't buy from them, other customers do otherwise the corporation will be out of business and become bankrupt and nothing will go towards supporting ZZ.

    Similarly, the government can only survive if it has enough tax collections from profitable private corporations and higher income individual earners. I have emphasized that most times more taxes are collected from private corporations, not individual taxpayers, unless the country concerned discourages private enterprise and foreign investment.

    If a government is mismanaged as in some of the European countries which are now in great financial difficulty, such a government may have to borrow money to stay alive. It may also have to request that existing foreign loans that are still owing be reduced or totally forgiven. In that sense the Malaysian government is still doing well to be able to disperse funds to BAM to carry on with its programs.

    But please note that in general, as in Singapore's case, more taxes are collected from private organisations than from individuals like you and me. As for individual taxpayers, it is often quoted that an estimated 80% of taxes collected are derived from the high income earners. Many low-income earners do not pay tax at all. And BAM also has giant private corporations like Maybank and other interested sponsors to support its activities too! So not all is tax-payers' money, please. And the money collected are from the higher income groups.

    So why is this unnecessary outcry and bias against BAM being funded from taxes and players who benefited from BAM's support are classified as "not independent"? :rolleyes:
     
    #512 Loh, Jan 25, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2012
  13. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Why don t we just keep things simple. An independent player is one who is not part of the BA of his/her country. So HH, ZZ, WCH are all independents.
     
  14. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    I don t think ZZ can even take a game off our Derek Wong or Ashton. And both DW and Ashton don t even have enough or more tournament exposure opportunities compared to ZZ. Some fans just judge quality by glamour or history-creating titles.
     
  15. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Or just non-BAM.
     
  16. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    Sure about this ... a win rather than a game would make your statement more credible. Who are these guys anyway, never heard their names before.
     
  17. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    I would agree with this, I think Derek and Ashton are very talented and have a lots of potential!:) and would beat Zulfadli in 2 games.

    What age is Derek an Ashton btw?
     
  18. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Given ZZ age and titles he got, he is a talent. So, given enough time and exposure, if you compare apple to apple, I think ZZ can take them easily. Given the same age. ;) Of course I doubt zz can beat them now.

    So, in coaching terms, (tips for you). If you hit 10,000 shots, that is good, if you hit 10,001 shots, that is even better. Given the quality is the same. ;) Hope this helps. ;) It's called experience. ;) You can try the drill and am sure you get what I mean. ;)

    If ZZ can be trained under Misbun, am sure he will soar like a Tiger (not a beer ok). ;)
     
  19. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    There are too many "IFs" in your post. :D:D:D

    Maybe eagle will not agree with you that "he will soar like a Tiger". ;)

    And wait until fatigue sets in after the first 1,000 shots.
     
  20. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    A timely wake-up call for BAM

    .
    This was posted by The Star (Friday January 20, 2012).

    http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.asp?file=/2012/1/20/sports/10298052&sec=sports

    ====== * ====== part of article ====== * ======

    Chong Wei’s brutally frank assessment that Malaysia might not even qualify for the Thomas Cup Finals, never mind win it, is a timely wake-up call for BAM.

    That BAM have been derelict in their responsibility, despite the resources at their command, is evidenced by the stark lack of new talent capable of being world beaters.

    The only youngster with star potential is junior world champion Zulfadli Zulkifli, but he is a product of KLRC, a club perceived as a rival by BAM.

    Therein lies the problem. Instead of encouraging and working with clubs, BAM, fearing the erosion of their total domination, have chosen to alienate them.

    They only recalled the increasingly erratic Hafiz Hashim, who left BAM to join KLRC, because they had no other option as he is, at No. 33, the next highest ranked Malaysian player in the world.

    ====== * ====== part of article ====== * ======
    .
     

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