let's together answer : what is the ideal tension?
- Thread starter kwun
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pepe54
Regular Member
Just stumbled on another thread entitled: Yonex Niigata Factory Official Visit Report. You can find the original thread and post at:
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...ry-official-visit-report.143501/#post-2246960
Its rather funny to note that in the Q&A session, even Yonex thinks that 24 lbs is a joke of a tension suited only for recreational players. Like the OP in the above thread, I am hoping for Yonex to start pushing the boundaries of 30lbs+.
I currently have the dilemma of whether to string my ZF2 past 28lbs or not. Conversely, my Voltric DG 10, which runs an almost identical design to the ZF2 (down to the compact quad frame head shape, tungesten grommet bumper strips at 8,10, 2 and 4 o'clock, etc). has been strung at 34 lbs, then 32lbs, no issues so far.
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...ry-official-visit-report.143501/#post-2246960
Its rather funny to note that in the Q&A session, even Yonex thinks that 24 lbs is a joke of a tension suited only for recreational players. Like the OP in the above thread, I am hoping for Yonex to start pushing the boundaries of 30lbs+.
Not so good enough report.
Me: I see. Another question can?
O: (They laughed) Yes, what is it?
Me: Why you made 24lbs tension for Nanoray 900? As for consumer, such 24lbs is not enough even for recreational players.
O: We make the racquet tension warranty based on racquets playing style. If the racquets is for control and speed, we decided to put 19-24lbs only because it’s fit to recreational player. For power such as Voltric Z Force 2 which is 28, we warranted at that because it’s for pro players.
Me: I would like to suggest that please increase the tension higher. I am Yonex fan, used Yonex since 6 years old. I would like to see Yonex is in 30lbs.
O: hurm.. we will discuss it in next meeting. Thanks for your suggestions.
I currently have the dilemma of whether to string my ZF2 past 28lbs or not. Conversely, my Voltric DG 10, which runs an almost identical design to the ZF2 (down to the compact quad frame head shape, tungesten grommet bumper strips at 8,10, 2 and 4 o'clock, etc). has been strung at 34 lbs, then 32lbs, no issues so far.
swsh
Regular Member
Super late sorry.
Friend has been playing fresh 31/32 on his zf2 for four months now. Everything seems solid and I would certainly not worry about it. Just stay at 31 crosses for best possible outcome as far as value for money is concerned tho. It won't break if it's anything too high but the life will definitely be sucked out of it too quickly (same as my tennis rackets I reckon). I'm sure you're already aware but keep a scissor in your bag at all times and cut the opposite string when a string breaks and then cut the string on the left and right before cutting through completely horizontally and vertically to reduce tension on one area of the frame immediately to prolong it's life.
Nanoray 10
New Member
Super late to this thread but here's my take. Please let me know if I'm correct.
The tension of the strings will impact the "sweet spot" of your racket. So lower tension such as 23, 24 pounds will have a high "sweet spot." Higher sweet spot will decrease accuracy of the hit. However, high tensions such as 31+ pounds will have a smaller sweet spot. Higher tension is geared towards professional players because their accuracy is spot on. But what I don't understand is why I feel more repulsion at a lower tension than at a higher tension at times when I smash. I'd say I'm a intermediate player and I sometimes feel I get more power out of a 24 pound strung racket compared to a 28 pound strung racket. Can someone clear up the confusion and elaborate please?
The tension of the strings will impact the "sweet spot" of your racket. So lower tension such as 23, 24 pounds will have a high "sweet spot." Higher sweet spot will decrease accuracy of the hit. However, high tensions such as 31+ pounds will have a smaller sweet spot. Higher tension is geared towards professional players because their accuracy is spot on. But what I don't understand is why I feel more repulsion at a lower tension than at a higher tension at times when I smash. I'd say I'm a intermediate player and I sometimes feel I get more power out of a 24 pound strung racket compared to a 28 pound strung racket. Can someone clear up the confusion and elaborate please?
I find that string tensions depends on the person who is using the racquet. Some people get the their best hits using 25, others may use 30 something. String tensions are personal. When choosing a tension, you can go as high as you feel comfortable with, as low as you can tolerate or simply pick the tension which gives you the most power. I personally prefer the last method because you can never really have too much power, and control is something that depends on the player's skill as much as the string. Another important note is that at tensions of 28 lbs and above, the strings will eat grommets for lunch and the frame holes will have small dents from the immense force. Thin strings are especially bad as they cut into grommets much more than thicker strings.
Carbonex_7
Regular Member
String bed is more bouncy at lower tension so greater repulsion power can be generated. Bouncy string bed means accuracy is bad, so pro players trade off power to accuracy by going higher tension. In a real competitive game, your opponent does not give up open smash opportunity most of the time, you have to create opportunity to smash with accurate drop shots and net play. I hope I have cleared your doubt.
Sorry but this is wrong buddy. At higher tensions, the string becomes more repulsive, leaving the stringbed much faster and responding more quickly. For example, my ZF2 strung at 22 lbs cannot hit the shuttle to the baseline from the midcourt with a tap, but strung at 29, it becomes quite easy. However, the power is noticeably reduced past approximately 30 lbs in my experience. All "wristy" and compact shots become difficult when the tension is too low, since the shuttle is still on the strings when the racquet has slowed down.
Power and control increase up to a certain tension, which is different for each player. Past that point, control continues to improve somewhat but power will drop off. That point is usually somewhere between 24-30 lbs for most players, except those who are still learning.
Carbonex_7
Regular Member
it doesn't make sense to have more repulsion power with higher tension, there is the general thought coming from newbies. Think of it like a trampoline effect; lower tension of string allows the string to stretch deeper and absorbs more incoming force and repels it back, shuttle stays at the spring bed longer but the repulsion power is bigger. The opposite happens to high tension spring bed.
Are you doing an apple to apple comparison in both scenario as string age, string type, incoming shuttle speed, racket type and etc all affect the results.
There were heaps of discussion in BC before,
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...se-a-higher-tension-and-get-more-power.79268/
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/higher-tension-for-more-power.5573/
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/high-tension-more-power.39271/
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...-low-vs-high-tension-affect-repulsion.147580/
Are you doing an apple to apple comparison in both scenario as string age, string type, incoming shuttle speed, racket type and etc all affect the results.
There were heaps of discussion in BC before,
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...se-a-higher-tension-and-get-more-power.79268/
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/higher-tension-for-more-power.5573/
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/high-tension-more-power.39271/
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...-low-vs-high-tension-affect-repulsion.147580/
The trampoline effect is really only needed for players still learning how to play. Most higher level players require more repulsiveness and feel from the string which means the racquet responds faster to small/ compact movements.
Comparison is very much apples to apples, same racquets and same reel of string.
Carbonex_7
Regular Member
that doesn't explain your theory of higher tension generates more power.The trampoline effect is really only needed for players still learning how to play. Most higher level players require more repulsiveness and feel from the string which means the racquet responds faster to small/ compact movements.
Comparison is very much apples to apples, same racquets and same reel of string.
swsh
Regular Member
If you're referring to this:
The above statement is true because maximum power is not achieved by lowering the tension too much. Most intermediate+ players get the maximum power at 26 or so lbs and wouldn't get the same result with a racket tensioned at 20 / 18 lbs
Nanoray 10
New Member
Here's the thing: My first racket is Yonex Nanoray 10 with default factory string (I'm guessing default factory string is probably like 18-19 pounds.) I tried out of my friend's racket, his Li-Ning N90III strung at 25 pounds. The string on the Li-Ning are significantly tighter than the Nanoray 10. However, I found my smash speed is faster with my Nanoray 10 strung at lower tension than the Li-Ning. It's hard to explain, but you guys know the feeling when you hit a good smash, like the sound the birdy makes when it flies. I just feel better with the lower tension. I saw the debate above and I'm not sure who is correct.
Carbonex_7
Regular Member
Go through all the threads on the links I provided and you will learn more about tension and power. Generally, lower tension generates more power with lesser accuracy and vice versa. Nanoray is a flexible + headlight racket and N90III is the opposite, stiff + head heavy. by looking at the spec, 10 out of 10 will take N90 III as the more powerful smashing racket, again, generally, stiff and head heavy rackets generate more powerful smash. My explaination is your strength and technique is developed to play better with flexible racket, so your swing and muscle memory is still staying with the flexible racket so naturally the power you can generate is lower. So it could be the combination of both.
Dave010, You can disagree with my opinion, but saying I am wrong with evidence coming from your own tapping test just sound silly and arrogant.
Sure, if lower tensions always generated more power, then none of the pro players would be using 28+ lbs right? I doubt any of them are trying to lose, and alot of those smashes are in the 400 kph area (just watch some recent matches).
In fact, I challenge you to name any top 10 male player using less than 28 lbs on their racquet.
In my opinion, string tension is being too oversimplified. The trampoline effect is not as simple as it is. If we make the racket stationary like a trampoline and add your swing force to the opposite force that the trampoline will exert we can already establish that the tension is not the only factor (in addition to the material the trampoline bed is made of and its resiliency)
Assuming that the only variable here is tension and the rest is constant between 2 trampolines. On the trampoline with a slack bed, the object may just sink down and the force exerted by the shuttle to the bed will just be distributed and to all objects affected. In a way, it's like the deeper the bed gives way to the shuttle the longer it will take for the bed to return to its normal state and lesser force returned to the object from the bed. Lesser force returned because the shuttle by now has decelerated so much that it does not feel as heavy as when it first hit the bed. The forward momentum of the shuttle has been absorbed, and distributed on the bed and all the parts connected (some of it are converted to vibrations etc.). With the shuttle given more time to decelerate and longer having possessing the same amount of pushing force it may result in the string bed only returning a small amount of force to comply with Newton's 3rd law. I don't want to say less bouncy because I'll be a victim of my oversimplification.
If the bed is pulled tighter, it will have less time to give way and must immediately return to it's normal state in the shortest possible time. The same force distribution happens but quicker. During the time when the bed is ready to return to its normal state, the shuttle is still exerting a good amount of pushing force to the bed and the shuttle only has a small amount of time for deceleration before the bed must again comply with Newton's 3rd law, exerting a larger amount of opposite force to the shuttle compared to the slacker trampoline. However, there will come a point where the bed is too tight that it no longer would bend and then return to it's previous state. This is the point where you need a bigger swing force to force the shuttle to sink a bit on the bed and therefore the bed return an enormous amount of force back.
Again, these are all just my opinion and in no way I'm saying that established coaching principles were wrong. I have never attended any sports academy and all I could do is make it all logical to me by watching and observing a few things like: a shuttle no bouncing on a soft rubber floor, but bounces on a harder floor, a slack net to catch trapeze acrobats (to make them bounce less when they fall), 3m synchronised springboard diving event (Rio 2016), and a bowstring.
With all of these things in my head, I kind of assumed that the reason why lower-mid tensions were recommended for beginners were because it gives them a bigger sweetspot (which is another topic on its own), protects their rackets, and ensures that they do not reach the point where they have to exert so much swing force to bend the bed that it causes injury (happens on very low or very high tensions).
Let us stop pulling the "trampoline effect" card out all the time because we all know the trampolines they use in the Olympics are way tighter than your backyard bouncer. Those Olympic gymnasts fly.
P.S. Don't get slapped by a person that can smash at 31lbs.
Assuming that the only variable here is tension and the rest is constant between 2 trampolines. On the trampoline with a slack bed, the object may just sink down and the force exerted by the shuttle to the bed will just be distributed and to all objects affected. In a way, it's like the deeper the bed gives way to the shuttle the longer it will take for the bed to return to its normal state and lesser force returned to the object from the bed. Lesser force returned because the shuttle by now has decelerated so much that it does not feel as heavy as when it first hit the bed. The forward momentum of the shuttle has been absorbed, and distributed on the bed and all the parts connected (some of it are converted to vibrations etc.). With the shuttle given more time to decelerate and longer having possessing the same amount of pushing force it may result in the string bed only returning a small amount of force to comply with Newton's 3rd law. I don't want to say less bouncy because I'll be a victim of my oversimplification.
If the bed is pulled tighter, it will have less time to give way and must immediately return to it's normal state in the shortest possible time. The same force distribution happens but quicker. During the time when the bed is ready to return to its normal state, the shuttle is still exerting a good amount of pushing force to the bed and the shuttle only has a small amount of time for deceleration before the bed must again comply with Newton's 3rd law, exerting a larger amount of opposite force to the shuttle compared to the slacker trampoline. However, there will come a point where the bed is too tight that it no longer would bend and then return to it's previous state. This is the point where you need a bigger swing force to force the shuttle to sink a bit on the bed and therefore the bed return an enormous amount of force back.
Again, these are all just my opinion and in no way I'm saying that established coaching principles were wrong. I have never attended any sports academy and all I could do is make it all logical to me by watching and observing a few things like: a shuttle no bouncing on a soft rubber floor, but bounces on a harder floor, a slack net to catch trapeze acrobats (to make them bounce less when they fall), 3m synchronised springboard diving event (Rio 2016), and a bowstring.
With all of these things in my head, I kind of assumed that the reason why lower-mid tensions were recommended for beginners were because it gives them a bigger sweetspot (which is another topic on its own), protects their rackets, and ensures that they do not reach the point where they have to exert so much swing force to bend the bed that it causes injury (happens on very low or very high tensions).
Let us stop pulling the "trampoline effect" card out all the time because we all know the trampolines they use in the Olympics are way tighter than your backyard bouncer. Those Olympic gymnasts fly.
P.S. Don't get slapped by a person that can smash at 31lbs.
Z-Force III
Regular Member
I feel that stiff racquets play better than flexible racquets, even if the string tension needs to be lowered. The feel and feedback is improved in my opinion. On the other hand, stringing a flexible racquet at a very high tension (32+), with hard strings (BG80) still doesn't yield the same kind of feel. The softness of the racquet seems to soak up all the feedback.