New Scoring System from September 2016

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Toastie, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Note that the BWF YouTube channel has lots and lots of great videos (basically all matches on the TV court from quarterfinal for SuperSeries tournaments, from semi final for Grand Prix Gold touranments), all with great commentary. The catch? These videos are available from the US and Australia, but neither Europe nor Asia. Here's the whole list of countries where you can enjoy high-quality video:

     
  2. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Exactly. Basically no western country, aka the countries where there's investor money. I wouldn't mind if they had a paid service, either, but it's just not available to me at all in any way, shape or form.
     
  3. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    you are absolutely not wrong, but, a culture shift takes many years. north america is just now starting to accept futbol as a potential career sport for athletes, but there is still not much money in it for its athletes. its been a long and slow process for it to get to where it is now, and yet, there's still a long way to go to catch up to the other futbol power nations.
    umm, well, it IS expensive in the richer nations. it takes more personnel than most people realize to broadcast a live 1 court badminton event. i've dealt w/ gp gold & ss broadcasting for bwf , and in the richer nations it's not cheap (obviously, everything costs more in the richer nations).
    splitting up was discussed. it's an extra days expense of staffing, officials and venue costs ($$$$$) w/ no guarantee in doubling spectator income for the 2nd day. half coming on day 1, other half on day 2, while expenses are increased. tournament scheduling is more difficult by adding the extra day. personally i like the 2 court thing, but it doesn't work for a live broadcast on network tv.

    obviously more money would speed everything up, which begs the one ?'n... where will the money come from? it's certainly not coming from the current worldwide fan base.

    here's a fact badminton fans must hate: golf has a fraction of the participants and viewers compared to badminton, yet has over 1,000x the money.
     
  4. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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  5. modisio

    modisio Regular Member

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  6. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    Will Bundesliga play with the new scoring system again?
    I wonder how there is no news about it at all?!
     
  7. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Yes, both 1. and 2. Bundesliga will keep playing 5x11_15.

    The laws and regulations for next season have not yet been published, but the clubs liked the new scoring system and I am unaware of any serious discussions to discard. Technically, the scoring system was not a one-year experiment, but the new normal - compare Appendix 3 of the Bundesligaordnung, which reads

    That's the reason you see no news: Bundesliga scoring system remains unchanged makes for a terrible headline.
     
  8. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    Oh wow okay.
    I thought national federations are complying strongly with the BWF.

    So they just decided freely to use this system no matter of international standards/development. Interesting.
    Also interesting to hear that the clubs like the new scoring system.
     
  9. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Giving an example from a mostly casual-oriented club - we have decided to use the new scoring system for our annual club internal doubles cup ("Schleifchenturnier") that we play over several weeks to keep the people coming to club nights during the current off-season weeks.

    Main reasons to go with the new system were:
    a) reduce the average match time to play as many matches as possible
    b) give the players the chance to make their own experiences with the new system since it was discussed very controversially at several occasions

    As you can imagine, some were very sceptic (some even complaining loudly...) in the beginning. But as the weeks and matches passed, those voices became more and more silent with more and more people starting to say good things about it.

    As expected, it changes the character of the game a bit and you have to adjust your own match-instincts according to it. A gap of 3 points with a score of <10 is perfectly acceptable with the old system, whilst with the new one it means a red alert already. And if you lose your focus just for two minutes, you can be almost certain that the game is gone for good. The typical "slow-starters" will hate the new system passionately, no doubt about that.

    Nevertheless, most of the positive feedback was concerning the fact that there are pretty much zero "neutral rallies" left in a game (let's say from score 8 to 15). The games jump directly from an opening phase of 4-5 points to the deciding phase of another 5-6 points. And it's noticable how many games go into setting when the match is close. One sided matches on the other hand can be over in what feels like an instant.

    You sometimes get the feeling that the matches are jumping from one tight situation to the next and there is not much time to relax in between. So it definitely adds a certain rush to the game which some might not like. I'm more of a quick-starter myself and normally tend to struggle to keep up the pace (or even increase it) towards the end of a game - especially in singles. So no big surprise that I have started to like the new scoring myself a while ago.

    @phihag
    Do you have any information if the new system will also be tested in lower leagues at some point in time? Since the Bundesliga clubs apparently seem to like it, this would only be the next natural step.
     
  10. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    I hate that system - it doesnt reward consistency in the same way the 21pt system does, and as you said, a momentary lapse in concentration can cost you an entire game much more easily than with longer games. I also do not believe it'll make matches more calculable, only shorten them (at least that's what happened in TT in my experience).
    I didnt like it even after 4 years playing in it, but eventually you just dont waste your time complaining to deaf ears anymore.
     
  11. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    The national federations are, but this is the Bundesliga. The aim of the Bundesliga is draw in spectators, whereas the national federation is concerned on how badminton is played. Hence, the upcoming split into DBV and DBLV.

    Actually, from what I heard (unconfirmed information) the Bundesliga is considering to apply for an even more experimental scoring system with longer intervals. If BWF grants them this (and my impression is that they're fine with that), the Bundesliga will play a unique system.

    If I am watching badminton, I really like the new system as well. The audience is visibly more involved, because most of the time on one of the court it's the end of a set with a points that "count". The German magazine Smashing News concurs. Have you been to a Bundesliga match this season? It's really great.

    Mind you, I would not want to play 5x11_15 though. But as I wrote above, in the Bundesliga, that's not nearly as important as improved spectator experience.
     
  12. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    I don't, but as I wrote in my post above, the aim of the Bundesliga is remarkably different from that of the clubs and state federations, and that's one of the reasons why it will get separated into a federation of its own (DBLV). From my understanding, most players and therefore most clubs and therefore most state federations and therefore the DBV (=German Federation) are fine or prefer 3x21, so I expect the lower leagues to follow the BWF default, which will be 3x21_30 at least for the next seasons.
     
  13. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    thx for the link about the Changes of the 16/17 season

    I didnt know about the 2 differend federations DBV and DBLV :eek:
    So it WILL be seperated, but is not as of now? Never heard of any of that ^^

    I should ask guys to play some 5x11 matches in practise to get a feel as a player and go to a Bundesliga match. Last match I saw was 2. Bundesliga with old scoring system, must have beem end of 2015.
     
  14. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    DBLV already exists, but doesn't have the rights for the Bundesliga yet. The transfer is planned for the season 2018/2019.
     
  15. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

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    They want to make it even shorter? The change from servicepoint 15 to rallypoint 21 already took some time off, and now more? I want to play badminton more, not less...
     
  16. LordGopu

    LordGopu Regular Member

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    Haha, yes but did anyone actually like getting stuck swapping serves forever until the final score was effectively like 36-35? I don't have the energy for that lol.
     
  17. necrohiero

    necrohiero Regular Member

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    11*5 will make badminton change itself to very fast rallying experience. FASTER than it already is.
    But.. maybe not that faster. 11*5, if all game will be played, will still be challenging.. and even long
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Well it looks like it is in for the 2018 Thomas Uber Cup.

    I don't mind more breaks in the middle. It's good for replays and advertisements if you can have two minutes break. They should have kept it 5 games a long time ago. I said so ages ago when they experimented with 5x7 point scored on serving.

    Obviously we will not see a classic such as the Okuhura vs sindhu world championship final again. But maybe we will get different classics.
     
  19. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Under the new scoring system, will the match end once a player has won two games?
     
  20. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    What about doing just a little bit of reading in here?

    No, it will then be best of five - so you need to win three games to win the match.
     

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