Also doesn't change the fact that LCW didn't have to play either one before the final in WC 2011, 2013, 2014 or 2015. I'm sure he'd have won one of those, right? Oh and fyi, as far as majors go, LD also played both in AG 2014 and won.
Seems to me you're so sore and bitter about it that you let your emotions get the better of you, not reason. The matches are one-on-one, even LCW admitted before playing the WC'17 after looking at the draw that he has to beat all the best players no matter who they are or what nationality they are if he is to become World Champion. This issue should've been long laid to rest, all the arguments settled once for all - that Lin Dan is regarded as The GOAT not because people like samkool or myself, a nobody in the badminton world, says so, but acknowledged by the likes of Peter Gade, Lee Hyun Il, Xiong Guobao, and the list goes on (somewhat tedious to mention all of them, the who's who of badminton heores). Indeed, we are in good company with such luminaries that anything else we say are superfluous. Simply put, if LCW couldn't beat Lin Dan in the final just because en route he had to face another CHN player, then he doesn't nor have what it takes to be World/Olympic Champion. Besides, it's not as if LCW had never been to a final without meeting another CHN player; what's more, nobody should expect LCW's non-CHN opponents to just roll over for him or Lin Dan, for that matter. In other words, if LCW could only beat one but not the other CHN player or both, what good is that, does he deserve to win the big one. And historical records exactly proved that LCW is the eternal second to Lin Dan, Period. By the way , the two cases you mentioned , the LOG'12 and the ROG'16 are alone just not sufficient or valid reasons to back up your arguments. I fail to see any merits in your dispute. Let's just talk about ROG'16 where it's widely accepted Lin Dan is past his prime already. More importantly, you don't supposed Viktor Axelsen or Son Wan Ho was any easier opponent for Chen Long than Lin Dan was for LCW, and not overlooking K Srikanth as a hurdle for Lin Dan himself in the QFs before the LD - LCW SF clash. Enough said. I'm tired of revisiting old grounds, reading the occasional rants from the likes of you raking up the past or harping on the same matter as it's a needless waste of time and effort to go the whole hog with you, digging up all the varied details and covering the whole scope, including every nook and cranny if necessary, in a , what I believe, will be a vain, futile attempt to convince you otherwise. What for ? While you're entitled to your own opinion, who do you represent but a tiny minority who stubbornly refuses to accept the fact that both Lin Dan and Chen Long won each and every single one of their major victories over LCW fair and square in the most deserving fashion, even the defeated, ill-starred LCW conceded as much. To sum up, Lin Dan's achievements speak for themselves - the most decorated Men's Singles player in history winning all the most coveted titles, a number of them several times over, nobody even comes close to accomplishing half as much. If he succeeded in capturing only one or two major championships, then some of us might attribute it partly to luck or by fluke esp when the matches are close affairs, but for him to win them umpteen times and several of them repeatedly against the same archrival, need I say more. To be frank, when I first spied your post, there's so much I wanted to say I didn't know where to begin and simply reeled off what came off the top of my head on impulse. After a while,I realized there's no further point. I rest my case.
Pardon me for saying this, either you're wilfully ignorant or plainly in denial of the truth that not all titles are created equal. Imagine, what if a player XYZ succeeded in winning 100 GPG/GP level titles and only a couple of SS for the most number of titles won, are we to say he has surpassed both Lin Dan and LCW in greatness ? The Rightful GOAT ? And I can't help but remind you of the H2H records between them, bearing in mind LCW is only one year older, and most importantly, their respective career spans almost completely overlap so we won't have a case of one player peaking while the other is in his twilight years owing to wide disparity in age which would contribute to making comparisons between them somewhat problematic.
I‘m not in denial of the truth. Nothing I said is untrue. I also don‘t think I‘m ignorant, nor ignorant on purpose. You don‘t want to compare the level of play between GPG and SS(P) tournaments and majors, do you? Lee Chong Wei has been at the top of his game for an extremely long time and has been winning SS and SSP tournaments time and time again. And it‘s been discussed endlessly that the draws are even harder than at major tournaments and there are better players in total at the SS(P) than at the majors and GPG. So yes, I think LCW comes very close in terms of level of play, consistency and number of titles. I‘m not saying LD is not the GOAT, neither do I want to take away his impressive achievement at majors. Also they did not peak at the same time. In 2008 when LD played his best, LCW was still playing catch up and very defensive.
one last run in a major would be epic. i'd love to see it! but, he'd need a lucky draw and for others to upset the other top players as well.
uhhh, well, who do you think he was beating in training/practice? what about the 5 wc's? lcw doesn't have a single one. not a single one.
i think you are the one bitter. Its only true that They never met in SF. in any big championships. and if he is truly GOAT, dont need to always write it in last paragraph. everyone who accepts him as one will be one.
One will never admit that Lin just won the London Olympic based on luck. How many times Lin winning big championships having played Chen&Lee? If he is that good, why he finished SS 25 or so times lower than Lee? not just 5-10 times..and SS is top play ( Dont even compare SS with GPG). like one said SS Draw is tougher than some WC. Its the consistency of highest class. No one will take his 2Olympics and WCs away. Simply we will never know who is GOAT because Lin was never in Lee shoes.
'Comes close' and 'surpassed' are two entirely different matters, a miss is as good as a mile, that's why Lin Dan is 5xWC and 2x OG and Chen Long 2xWC and 1x OG as opposed to zero, zilch for LCW. The fact that the most coveted WC and OG are contested in the finals by virtually three players and won by only two of them in the last one decade speaks volumes, namely, Lin Dan and Chen Long vis-a-vis the vanquished LCW, with Chen Jin being the only spoiler or exception in Paris 2010 WC (yeah, Taufik Hidayat contested the final, that's about all), which certainly disproves that the WC and OG are in any way weaker or easier to win than the star-studded PSS (the SS not always the case). As we know, that the early rounds, one or at most two, are filled by generally much lower ranked opponents facing the main contenders for the major titles than for the Superseries are by design, not by accident, for well-known reasons for the WC and the OG. But clearly and effectively, all the top contenders, the best of the best, are in attendance in both categories of events, and the most important thing is to win the ultimate prize, not survive the early rounds. For what's the purpose of progressing past the first one or two rounds only to get eliminated after that time and again? As for the mighty LCW, he has the rare distinction of being the greatest player never to have won the WC/OG and that is not going to change in future for time is seriously running out for him in his relentless pursuit of that elusive gold medal. Lastly, you evaded my point on their one-sided H2H record in favour of Lin Dan.
In their heydays, Lin Dan and LCW are always drawn in the opposite halves of major events, how to meet in the SFs ? The same goes for Chen Long and LCW in the last few majors. Is it CHN's fault or unfair advantage that she has more than one main contenders for the WC and OG , whereas MAS only has one LCW ?
Only the LOG'12 won by luck ? Tell that to LCW to see if it's any consolation to him. As our BCer, Fortune, once pointed out, Lin Dan ruled supreme in terms of WR and titles won early on in his career until 2008 when he reset is priority to concentrate more on winning the major ones whilst LCW was still happily sweeping more of the other prestigious titles. If we apply Sun Zi's Art of War, Lin Dan wisely employed the right strategy, focusing more on the big ones and being selective in the others whereas LCW either got his priorities wrong or overstretched himself or both. Later events were to prove Lin Dan right, so much so that even LCW was forced to follow Lin Dan's footsteps in recent years but, I'm afraid, it's too late now. And why would Lin Dan want to be in LCW's shoes when he has his own visions, goals, resources, support and circumstances to make the most of ? As a matter of fact, LCW enjoys substantially more privileges and prerogatives than Lin Dan ever did or could in CBA, the way LCW is treated like a Duke and pampered in BAM, feted by royalty, and suchlike.
Incheon 2014. Anywho, I won’t bother arguing about it since it is just unarguable. Why waste time on a subject like that.
Once again, I never even said the word "surpassed". All I said is that LCW won more titles overall. Just stating a fact. He has won more titles, not matches. I'm sorry, but you will just have to live with that, Justin. It's not many, only 3 for now, so you could say Lin Dan "comes close". Maybe it will change this year, who knows. But talking about GP and GPG, I think LD won more of them than LCW. I don't know why you always have to write incredibly long walls of text about majors. I know that Lin Dan has won a lot of majors and LCW hasn't won a single major tournament. I also know that WCs and Olympics as well as Asian Games are considered worth a lot more by the majority of people and players. To be honest, WC11 and Olympics 2012 were anyone's, it was extremely close and they were equal in terms of level of play at said tournaments.
Although LD is my #1 MS, I have tremendous respect for LCW. I feel for his near misses and applause for his achievements. I believe that all LD fans have similar feeling towards LCW. We badminton fans are so lucky to have them both at the same time. Enjoy while they still with us.
Lin Dan always had LCW's numbers whether in big or small tournament. When LD was at his physical peak...2006-10...He could even blow LCW away in straight sets. At times, used to toy with him. It was when he got little slower and jumped into the 'long drawn out rallies business' 2011 onwards that LCW started to have close games with him but even in 2011 LCW suffered thrashings from LD....Lin Dan cross court flick defence to LCW's favourite cross court jump smash from 2011 China, Hong Kong Open are still in my memories. Lin Dan was never LCW's cup of tea. Don't let 2016 Rio Olympics SF fool you where LD was slow as snail. Judging the rivalry on Rio Olympics result would be like judging LCW on his Glasgow 2017 R1 match where he was slow, lazy and very artless. Doesn't count.
Yep after the 08 Olympics were some of LD's finest games vs LCW. 2009 AE, 2010 TC in Malaysia where LCW got beaten nearly as bad as 08 Olympics, 2010 Sudirmans Cup and finally 2010 Asian Games where in the 3rd set LD had a 10-1 lead or something in the 3rd set, where there were some of the best rallies ever.
2009-2010 Lin Dan might be the most underrated player of all time. Had insane peak level, not even close....was always 11-1 or something in the important sets against everyone.
He can and did. Just not consistently Also, 2017 CL was a joke, to be quite frank. Rio was the last time he really looked great, and the only tournament in the entirety of 2016 where he did, in fact. It's like his last hurrah, I don't think he'll ever come back to true Top3 shape. His game relies so much on having a big physical advantage that he is starting to drop off even before hitting the magical 30, don't think we'll see anything comparable to LDs and LCWs continued ability to win titles even after falling below their respective peaks. All the credit to Axelsen for winning the 2017 WC, but beating CL and LD there was definitely easier than beating them at the 2012 or 2016 Olympic Games.
Tournaments won by LCW in which he beat both LD and CL: All England 2011, China Open 2015, BAC 2016 Tournaments won by LD in which he beat both LCW and CL: China Open 2011, WC 2013, AG 2014 Isn't selective memory a wonderful thing.
